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(SPOILERS) Frieza Upgrade to Low 2-C

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Zeldasmash

Zeldasmash

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Pretty self explanatory.

In Broly, Frieza managed to survive against a bloodlusted Super Saiyan Broly while in Golden Frieza for a full hour. Goku and Vegeta didn't last that long against him and they would have likely died or been near death have they not retreated. Also, Frieza going Golden was enough to push Broly away several feet away with Broly shocked from the transformation.

I think this is enough to push Frieza, or at least Golden Frieza, to Low 2-C.
 
Being used as a punch bag isn't reason to scale, Frieza had absolute no change agaisnt Broly. At best, is a stamina feat.

Also, not usre if considered canon, but according to the novel Broly didn't want to straight up kill Frieza.
 
Broly was bloodlusted and a Super Saiyan when he went after Frieza.

Also, we never got to see the very beginning of the fight against them due to the Gogeta fusions. For all we know, Frieza might have given him trouble at the beginning (considering Broly was shocked and was pushed away quite a bit due the Golden Frieza transformation) and Broly started to adapt.

Point is, Frieza lasted the longest of all the fighters in the movie against Broly, and this was a bloodlusted Super Saiyan Broly. And even if he "didn't" want to kill Frieza, those blows are more then enough to make other Low 2-C's cower, and that's before he goes Legendary. Yet Frieza managed to be perfectly conscious throughout the entire fight/beatdown and still remain Golden Frieza throughout the rest of the fight until it was over.

Also, I might be wrong here, but isn't Super Saiyan Broly stronger then Jiren?
 
Why is Frieza so strong anyway? Was it stated that he continued training in the novel?
 
Antoniofer said:
Being used as a punch bag isn't reason to scale, Frieza had absolute no change agaisnt Broly. At best, is a stamina feat.
Also, not usre if considered canon, but according to the novel Broly didn't want to straight up kill Frieza.
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This makes no sense at all, it's a durability feat. One much better then Goku and Vegeta put together in the movie. Goku was nearly killed by Broly earlier in the movie by slaming him a couple times against the ice sheet.
 
Therefir said:
Why is Frieza so strong anyway? Was it stated that he continued training in the novel?
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It was stated in an interview that Frieza has grown in power and want's to be at the top but is still weaker than Beerus.
 
Therefir said:
Why is Frieza so strong anyway? Was it stated that he continued training in the novel?
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Yes, he continued training. Vegeta commented that he is a threat and that it was bad idea letting him live since his potential allows him to become stronger. In the ToP he took a beatdown from a casual GoD Toppo, which knocked him while he survived SSJ Broly, who is stronger than said Toppo for an hour in the new movie.
 
I can be convinced but I'm unsure if this warrants a straight up Low 2-C (as opposed to an 'At least 3-A, likely/possibly Low 2-C'). He did last a damn long while and it's otherwise suggested that he got significantly stronger.
 
Logically, this should be some sort of durability feat.

I'll let others decide if it's actually usable though, as Broly was much more "as strong as he needs to be for the coolest looking fight to occur" level than being fully consistent in his power level. Which worked wonders for the movie itself, but can be kind of a pain when trying to reconcile it with stuff like the ToP for the sake of powerscaling.
 
No, it's because bad writing for the sake of looking cool and everyone knows it. Broly's power is the least inconsistent here, as we know that he keeps getting stronger and stronger. Goku vs Broly didn't make any sense until Blue came up. Frieza lasting AT least an Hour makes him scale in durability by default. That's common sense. There's nothing to say we can't use it for him either, because that's Frieza's only "fight" post TOP. To say a Frieza who likely trained (because he knows better at this point) cannot be believed to perform this feat based on feats from a Frieza who was WEAKER (who, by the way, performed similar feats, legit or not) is ridiculous.

Why are people saying no? If it's to scale his AP to it, then I think he should just get the durability. But he survived for an HOUR, and this is a new Frieza who is likely stronger than the old Frieza. The only thing holding this back is believing that Frieza should be comparable to Blue Goku and Vegeta individually, which is based in a headcanon assumption, and even if it was true, Frieza has shown to be more endurance based and resilient than Goku and Vegeta, who are also Low 2-C, and can survive a strike from Broly, with immense difficulties.
 
Peter "Quicksilver" Maximoff said:
I also have my concerns about the Space-Time Manipulation present on Broly and Gogetas profile.
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I guess the novel didn't explain further about that. It seems like an enhanced version if what happened in Buu Saga, but with better visuals and using sheer strength rather than sound.
 
The Space-Time Manipulation in the Broly movie could be a far better Portal Creation. Also i disagree with Base Goku > SSG Vegeta.
 
Gotenks and Super Buu used to have Space-Time Manipulation because they opened a hole in space-time, but was changed into Portal Creation.
 
If Omega Shenron can become 3-A from barely surviving a single 3-A attack, then I see no reason as to why a stated stronger Frieza wouldn't scale to Low 2-C for surviving a beat down from a maddened Broly for an hour straight and still be fine.

Frieza wasn't even unconscious or barely alive or anything, he was still able to retain his golden form and everything.

He should definitely scale, saying otherwise is, in my opinion, ridiculous.
 
Why scale people to attacks that they barely survived? If the same value is listed in the profile would indicate that any attack of the same magnitude would cause moderate damage despite what was showed. Durability show the amount of energy to cause moderate damage.
 
EAntoniofer said:
Why scale people to attacks that they barely survived? If the same value is listed in the profile would indicate that any attack of the same magnitude would cause moderate damage despite what was showed. Durability show the amount of energy to cause moderate damage.
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Except Frieza did not barely survive Broly's assault. He was still fully functional after the beatdown and was grinning after it, amazed with Broly's strength. Frieza was still alive and kicking after his onsalught.

If this is the case, then why is Omega Shenron 3-A for barely surviving Big Bang Kamehameha? Frieza took a bloodlusted onslaught of a Low 2-C character and is still alive and kicking with only scratches at best and was still in Golden Frieza form throughout it. Why does Omega Shenron get a pass but Frieza doesn't?
 
Antoniofer said:
Why scale people to attacks that they barely survived? If the same value is listed in the profile would indicate that any attack of the same magnitude would cause moderate damage despite what was showed. Durability show the amount of energy to cause moderate damage.
Click to expand...
Frieza didn't "barely survive it", he was still in his golden form, he even cracked a joke about how unfair it was that Goku and Vegeta can fuse and become even more stronger, another level of strength that he must overcome.

He wasn't bleeding out, or barely conscious, or swallowing his own spit or anything that severe.

And Broly isn't someone like Toppo or Jiren who you can argue were holding back. Broly goes insane when he fights, he doesn't know how to hold back, he isn't limited by tournament rules, and he is as brutal and raw in a fight as one could be. And if Frieza can be relatively fine after surviving a beatdown for an hour, then through the mechanics of Ki, his AP should scale.
 
Because it means they can barely survive attacks of that caliber, which is crucial information in a fight. Also, Frieza "barely survived" EACH INDIVIDUAL BLOW for.... AT LEAST..., 1 Hour. 60 minutes. That's a feat. I always interpreted durability to mean that this is how much force your body can take while still being relatively functional. If Frieza's bones were shattered into dust, or his organs were reduced to chunks along with his muscles, he wouldn't scale. But within 30 minutes, he got right back up to try and snipe Cheelai and Lemon out of the sky, his arms and legs still functioning properly. This means he only took massive bruises at best. That's important.
 
Yeah, barely surviving could be important, but in general do not scale to AP and is noted by the "at most", giving it exact value as durability is misleading. But anyway, I lost the track, I was talking more about Shenron rather than Frieza.
 
I said I only agree with Durability, and we should use AT MOST, Likely, POSSIBLY more liberally, because for some reason it's really difficult to get that clarification.

Frieza was hurt, that's a fact. But he survived without the threat of death, massive bodily damage, and was able to stand up shortly after. That's a feat worth noting, and since he survived low 2-c fisticuffs despite being 3-A last arc AFTER he has gotten stronger and has feats that imply him to be comparable to Goku and Vegeta in the novel (he was able to budge, but not harm Broly, just like Goku and Vegeta do in the movie when they kick him in the back), I would say that he is comparable to Goku and Vegeta— if not that, then he has Low 2-C durability AT MOST. Which should be noted on his profile, before people go on thinking the weakest low 2cs can easily turn Frieza into goop.

They can ragdoll him, yes. But if Frieza had hax, that would be enough to give him time to fight back. Which should be noted on the profile.
 
Personally, I don't mind a new Low 2-C statistic for Frieza, but it depends on what the rest of the staff think.
 
I don't mind either. This is literally different from the Toppo situation, TBF.
 
I think that we had a long discussion about why Omega should be 3-A, so it seems best to let him stay that way.
 
Let's put this into perspective for the people who don't seem to understand what they are talking about.

Goku and Vegeta are presented as Low 2-C for handling more of Jiren's power in just Blue during the Tournament of Power. This makes them stronger than 1st UIO Goku and akin to 2nd UIO Goku.

Wrath Broly is comparable to Post-ToP SSB Goku who is comparable to at least 1st UIO Goku (who is Low 2-C).

SS Broly curbstomps Post-ToP SSB Goku and SSB Vegeta combined (even effortlessly destroying a Galick Kamehameha).

SS Broly can curbstomp two fighters at a similar level to 1st UIO or 2nd UIO Goku in what is presented as less than a minute of on-screen fighting.

Frieza fights and tanks SS Broly for an hour.

Now that the above facts have been outlined we can move onto the rationale of Frieza scaling.

The Tournament of Power lasted 48 minutes. Frieza was left unopposed throughout the Tournament of Power until he faced Dyspo. Dyspo couldn't even phase base Frieza. Dyspo's maximum speed couldn't even damage Golden Frieza. Frieza couldn't tag Dyspo's maximum speed but was capable of just barely blocking his attacks.

Overall. Frieza was left mostly undamaged by the encounter and can be treated as peak condition against Toppo.

Frieza's battle against Toppo lasted less than a minute in-universe. It was a one-sided horrific curbstomp that left him completely crippled and unconscious. He was unconscious for around three minutes in-universe. Toppo wasn't aiming to kill and as such would have been holding back down to a 3-A level instead of fighting with his Low 2-C level power.

When Frieza awakens and attempts to 'kill Jiren' he is one shot. Frieza is heavily damaged but it's also quite clear that he was going all out and likely had a rage boost.

Toppo and Jiren both completely curbstomped Frieza. Both of them having to hold back massively to not kill him.

With the above in-mind we can return to the Broly movie

Goku is considered Low 2-C as a result of UIO seemingly boosting his abilities with each use. Whis even notes when Goku fights Caulifa that he isn't using UI but his body is adapting to her every movement. Goku would have grown more powerful with this logic by using UIO a third time and using MUI.

Goku and Vegeta are depicted as equal at the start of the film.

Base Goku only fought Broly very briefly. SS Goku struggled with Broly. SSG Goku had a edge over Broly but was stomped. To my memory SSG Goku never directly attacked Broly like Vegeta did. He countered Broly's punch by using his weight and power against him for a throw and used a paralysis technique that Broly promptly copied and then stomped Goku effortlessly.

Outside of the inconsistency of base Goku and SS Goku not dying horribly against Broly...SSG Goku remains consistent with SSG Vegeta. We can overall make the claim that they are, indeed, equal or nearly equal.

SSB Goku and SSB Vegeta are curbstomped by SS Broly and last less than a minute on-screen against him with Blue.

Frieza lasts an hour.

Conclusion

Goku and Vegeta are (based on scaling) akin to (2nd) UIO Goku in power in Super Saiyan Blue. GoD Toppo is around this level of power. GoD Toppo utterly destroyed Frieza in less than a minute of fighting and knocked him unconscious. This is Toppo holding back to not kill Frieza.

SS Broly curbstomped SSB Goku and SSB Vegeta who are comparable to GoD Toppo. SS Broly isn't holding back even slightly. Frieza lasts an hour against a bloodlusted SS Broly who is vastly superior to GoD Toppo who could stomp ToP Frieza while holding back in less than a minute.

Extra

I have the novel presently but I do not know japanese. When run through google translate it mentions Frieza's feat of surviving Broly for 30 minutes as being an incredible feat. It also mentions that Golden Frieza is capable of 'somehow' counterattacking Broly but his attacks are ineffective. Frieza lasts another 30 minutes after this and is stated to have survived 'over' an hour.

Frieza monologues internally that Broly is the most powerful opponent he has ever faced and that 'no one alive' could hope to defeat him. This effectively scales Broly above GoD Toppo and a restrained Jiren. This may also scale him above LB Jiren due to Frieza potentially having sensed him.

When Broly leaves Frieza behind it is mentioned that Broly left because of Frieza being unable to 'resist' anymore. This statement in-itself would prove that Frieza WAS fighting back and enduring Broly's strength for over an hour.

Of course, this is all with google translate which is why I considered it only relevant to put in this section.
 
I disagree with Frieza being Low 2-C, he just has a vast amount of endurance. When he fought Goku on Namek for "five minutes", he was taking a major beating, and continued to fight even with only his torso remaining. He was still conscious when Trunks sliced him down the middle and to pieces until he was vaporized with a ki blast. In the ToP he was virtually one-shot by both Toppo and Jiren and could continue to fight after getting back up.

He also maintained the same beating in his final form that he received in his golden form, only becoming gold towards the end of their fight until Broly punched him into a mountain...so the argument then becomes final form Frieza > SSB Goku and Vegeta because he lasted longer.
 
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