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Super Mario Bros: Major Revisions.

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GyroNutz said:
@ArceusBowser44
So... what about characters who are explicitly superior to the star children? For example, everyone who captures Princess Peach in a game. Or what about characters that fight alongside the Star Children, the biggest ones being Yoshi and Waluigi.
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Sorry, but i don't think you are very familiar with the verse. Sorry if it sounds rude.

Yoshi is already one of the Star Children, as i mentioned above. Waluigi? He could simply scale to Mario's low-end, since he fought Mario a few times, but he simply can't scale to the Star Children, for reasonings that i've stated in the comment above.

About the characters who captured Peach, that is a huge and obvious Plot-Induced-Stupidity.

For example, in PM64, Bowser captured Peach, but at the end of the game, when Peach realized how powerful her Wish Abilities were, she's literally the one who stomped Bowser and the Star Rod. Not Mario.

Well, technically it was Mario, but Mario had to CONSTANTLY use Peach's Beam (Peach's ability) in order to nullify the effects of the Star Rod.

^And that is just an example.
 
Yoshi is already one of the Star Children, as i mentioned above. Waluigi? He could simply scale to Mario's low-end, since he fought Mario a few times, but he simply can't scale to the Star Children, for reasonings that i've stated in the comment above.

About the characters who captured Peach, that is a huge and obvious Plot-Induced-Stupidity.

For example, in PM64, Bowser captured Peach, but at the end of the game, when Peach realized how powerful her Wish Abilities were, she's literally the one who stomped Bowser and the Star Rod. Not Mario.

Well, technically it was Mario, but Mario had to CONSTANTLY use Peach's Beam (Peach's ability) in order to nullify the effects of the Star Rod.

^And that is just an example.

Not sure if you knew this, but Yoshi's profile is a composite one. Unless you're claiming that Yoshi in every game is the star child one, my point still stands.

In case you're not that familiar with Mario, Peach has been kidnapped too many times to count. Calling PIS on all of them is headcanon.

Paper Mario =/= Mario.
 
no Paper Mario =/= Mario, the paper verse is seperate from the regular mario verse. Unless you think that regular mario can turn himself into a paper aeroplane lol

how isn't it headcanon if it's happened so many times?
 
@GyroNutz: How is Paper Mario separate from Mario? Paper Jam is contradicted by several other instances, as Dino pointed out.
 
Paper Mario has different feats + different stats than Mario. You can't give Mario a pure hearts key because Mario =/= Paper Mario. That's why they have different pages.
 
And? Having different feats + stats =/= being different people. The only reason they have separate pages is for organization purposes.
 
GyroNutz said:
Paper Mario has different feats + different stats than Mario. You can't give Mario a pure hearts key because Mario =/= Paper Mario. That's why they have different pages.
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That's not even true. It says on the Paper Mario page that they're the same Mario. That can't be the reason they have different pages because they say it's not on the page.
 
GyroNutz said:
Yoshi is already one of the Star Children, as i mentioned above. Waluigi? He could simply scale to Mario's low-end, since he fought Mario a few times, but he simply can't scale to the Star Children, for reasonings that i've stated in the comment above.

About the characters who captured Peach, that is a huge and obvious Plot-Induced-Stupidity.

For example, in PM64, Bowser captured Peach, but at the end of the game, when Peach realized how powerful her Wish Abilities were, she's literally the one who stomped Bowser and the Star Rod. Not Mario.

Well, technically it was Mario, but Mario had to CONSTANTLY use Peach's Beam (Peach's ability) in order to nullify the effects of the Star Rod.

^And that is just an example.
Click to expand...
Not sure if you knew this, but Yoshi's profile is a composite one. Unless you're claiming that Yoshi in every game is the star child one, my point still stands.
In case you're not that familiar with Mario, Peach has been kidnapped too many times to count. Calling PIS on all of them is headcanon.

Paper Mario =/= Mario.

..You are so wrong in SO many things...

Yoshi is a Star Child. Case and point. No matter what game ge is in, he's a Star Child. He has a star in his heart. Simple as that. Your point doesn't make any sense.

Ok now, you clearly don't know Mario. I think you shouldn't post these comments in this thread. They are out of context, and simply wrong. The 90% of the time Peach got kindnapped by characters that she can clearly beat (since she has beaten Universal characters like Megabug, why the hell should she be weaker than the Koopalings? Of course though, we don't rate Peach "Low 2-C" because it's a clear outlier. However, that still proves that Peach is much stronger than the characters who kindnapped her, making the entire thing an obvious PIS).

Paper Mario = Mario.

Just to clarify one thing: Star Children > everyone who isn't God-Tier (examples are Rosalina, Dimentio and Zeekeper).

Why? Kamek stated that Star Children have extraordinary power that "let them take over the universe", they have that much power that the others don't have. And for many other things that i stated in the comments above.

Overall, it makes sense for the Star Children to be FAR more powerful than other mid-bosses like Koopalings, or less important characters like Daisy and Waluigi.
 
Sans for one game as mentioned by Viridi in Smash Peach getting kidnapped is a running gag, the reason i have heard that since as a princess she does not want to fight nor use violence against the oppressors or she gets a disease or a curse that blocks her for ex. by Cackletta.
 
@Gyro, sorry if this sounds rude, but it's better if you stop with those comments now. You are delairing (i hope i spelled it right) the thread, you are talking about completely different topics and most importantly you are bringing pretty much no evidence to back up your claims.

In this thread, we are discussing the tier for Mario and the others, and your comments aren't helping, at all. Sorry again if this sound rude. I don't want to sound like an asshole, just giving you some advice.
 
Okay, so whoever still keeps claiming that "Paper Mario = Mario" and that the 2 verse are still connected, read everything that has been mentioned between these 2 specificed timeframes of the link below and please stop making that an argument, thx.

(Start at 6:15 to 10:30): https://youtu.be/elzJp2OnW4s
 
Again with those irrelevant arguments?

Ok, i really don't want to be rude, but we already discussed about that. DRB explained EVERYTHING in the thread. I suppose you should read the Paper Mario part again.

Mario and Paper Mario (other games) are still connected.
 
"Yoshi is a Star Child. Case and point. No matter what game ge is in, he's a Star Child. He has a star in his heart. Simple as that. Your point doesn't make any sense."

Prove that every single Yoshi is a star child, considering that different Yoshis appear in different games. In case you didn't know, there's more than one Yoshi lol. The burden of proof is on you.

"Ok now, you clearly don't know Mario. I think you shouldn't post these comments in this thread. They are out of context, and simply wrong. The 90% of the time Peach got kindnapped by characters that she can clearly beat (since she has beaten Universal characters like Megabug, why the hell should she be weaker than the Koopalings? Of course though, we don't rate Peach "Low 2-C" because it's a clear outlier. However, that still proves that Peach is much stronger than the characters who kindnapped her, making the entire thing an obvious PIS)."

Spamming 'you don't know Mario' really doesn't make your arguments more solid and is an ad hominem. So your argument is that Peach shouldn't be kidnapped as she beat Megabug... but then you say that's an outlier? lolwat? It makes sense for Princess Peach to be kidnapped as that's a recurring theme in the Mario Bros series. It also makes sense for Peach to be a star child. What DOESN'T make sense is for Peach to be trillions of times stronger than her kidnappers.

My initial point about Paper Mario =/= Mario was that Paper Mario's abilities shouldn't really be comparable to Mario's abilities and vice versa. If that caused confusion intiially, I apologise. But alright, I'll bite.

"For example, in PM64, Bowser captured Peach, but at the end of the game, when Peach realized how powerful her Wish Abilities were, she's literally the one who stomped Bowser and the Star Rod. Not Mario."

That's a massive distortion of the facts. Here's how Peach's wish worked. She wished for the Star Spirits to increase their power, and they do so not because Peach has some magical control over them, but because it was a selfless wish. It was the star spirits that ultimately allowed Mario to beat Bowser.

"the reason i have heard that since as a princess she does not want to fight nor use violence against the oppressors or she gets a disease or a curse that blocks her for ex. by Cackletta."

Sounds fair. But what about instances where Peach fights against her oppressors but is defeated? An example is Elder Princess Shroob, where Peach uses the Cobalt Star to seal her but is then defeated by Younger Princess Shroob.

To conclude, I think it's fair to give enemies that have been shown to be on par/superior to the Star Children the same ranking as them instead of calling every instance where the Star Children are shown to have met their match 'PIS'.

Btw it's spelt 'Derailing'.
 
I disagree with the downgrades, and I think that the Star Children should be 3-B. All others are unknown to me. Should we close the thread now?
 
GyroNutz said:
"Yoshi is a Star Child. Case and point. No matter what game ge is in, he's a Star Child. He has a star in his heart. Simple as that. Your point doesn't make any sense."
Prove that every single Yoshi is a star child, considering that different Yoshis appear in different games. In case you didn't know, there's more than one Yoshi lol. The burden of proof is on you.

"Ok now, you clearly don't know Mario. I think you shouldn't post these comments in this thread. They are out of context, and simply wrong. The 90% of the time Peach got kindnapped by characters that she can clearly beat (since she has beaten Universal characters like Megabug, why the hell should she be weaker than the Koopalings? Of course though, we don't rate Peach "Low 2-C" because it's a clear outlier. However, that still proves that Peach is much stronger than the characters who kindnapped her, making the entire thing an obvious PIS)."

Spamming 'you don't know Mario' really doesn't make your arguments more solid and is an ad hominem. So your argument is that Peach shouldn't be kidnapped as she beat Megabug... but then you say that's an outlier? lolwat? It makes sense for Princess Peach to be kidnapped as that's a recurring theme in the Mario Bros series. It also makes sense for Peach to be a star child. What DOESN'T make sense is for Peach to be trillions of times stronger than her kidnappers.

My initial point about Paper Mario =/= Mario was that Paper Mario's abilities shouldn't really be comparable to Mario's abilities and vice versa. If that caused confusion intiially, I apologise. But alright, I'll bite.

"For example, in PM64, Bowser captured Peach, but at the end of the game, when Peach realized how powerful her Wish Abilities were, she's literally the one who stomped Bowser and the Star Rod. Not Mario."

That's a massive distortion of the facts. Here's how Peach's wish worked. She wished for the Star Spirits to increase their power, and they do so not because Peach has some magical control over them, but because it was a selfless wish. It was the star spirits that ultimately allowed Mario to beat Bowser.

"the reason i have heard that since as a princess she does not want to fight nor use violence against the oppressors or she gets a disease or a curse that blocks her for ex. by Cackletta."

Sounds fair. But what about instances where Peach fights against her oppressors but is defeated? An example is Elder Princess Shroob, where Peach uses the Cobalt Star to seal her but is then defeated by Younger Princess Shroob.

To conclude, I think it's fair to give enemies that have been shown to be on par/superior to the Star Children the same ranking as them instead of calling every instance where the Star Children are shown to have met their match 'PIS'.

Btw it's spelt 'Derailing'.
Click to expand...
OMG, honestly, this is so wrong, i don't even wanna talk about it. Like i said, you should stop. You are derailing the thread.

So you are saying that in the other games Yoshi isn't a Star Child?What...... That's, by far, the most stupid thing i ever heard. Mario games are all of the same continuity, they are simply games talking about different things: You are now basically saying that each Mario game is a different timeline, and in each timeline Mario is a different person with different backstory and etc without really any argument at all.

Yoshi was born as a Star Child. He grows up as a Star Child. He IS A STAR CHILD. What the...???! You are just saying "well we can't assume Yoshi is a Star Child in every game" WITHOUT A LOGICAL REASON. Why shouldn't we? Again, it's not like each Mario game is a different timeline. They are all part of the same timeline, (Paper Mario is the same thing. Paper Mario = Mario, AGAIN), they are simply different adventures.

Please stop with this non-sense.

Hm, lol what? You do realize Peach is a Star Child, right? And you do realize that as a Star Child, she can simply stomp an entire army made of Koopa, Goombas and even the Koopalings or whatever enemy the one in front of Peach is, right?

Most of the times, Peach gets kindnapped by Bowser, which makes sense. It makes sense because BOTH Peach and Bowser are Star Children, with the difference that Bowser is a more brutal one and is less peace-oriented.

However, the times she gets kindnapped by enemies that are OBVIOUSLY weaker than her (for example, the Koopalings. Pach was able to stomp characters empowered by Green Stars in SM3D World (and mind you, Green Stars are comparable to Power Stars) yet now she can't defeat the Koopalings?).

And no, my point was that, as showed, Peach can defeat characters much stronger than the Koopalings (Megabug is an example). She doesn't scale because Megabug is an outlier, however the fact that she showed to hurt Megabug further proves the fact that she doesn't have a problem with stomping the Koopalings. Not to mention that Dark also made a fair and smart point.

  • Facepalm*. The difference is, Peach is the one who powered the Star Spirits and let them use Peach Beam. And Peach can use Peach Beam on her own.
Without Peach, Mario would have already died. Peach however was there, and she proved to be capable with her wishing power. Peach's role in PM64 was pretty much to be the wisher.
 
ArceusBowser44 said:
Again with those irrelevant arguments?

Ok, i really don't want to be rude, but we already discussed about that. DRB explained EVERYTHING in the thread. I suppose you should read the Paper Mario part again.

Mario and Paper Mario (other games) are still connected.
Click to expand...
Contradictions + Separate Dimensions says otherwise.

Also no, this wouldn't be irrelevant as SMB & Paper Mario being connected was already debunked and I provided evidence as a reminder of that.
 
Omniversia999 said:
I disagree with the downgrades, and I think that the Star Children should be 3-B. All others are unknown to me. Should we close the thread now?
Click to expand...
Just saying, but we aren't really doing any downgrades. It's just that the 4A feats aren't really 4-A anymore.

And technically, the Star Children are going to get an upgrade, so. Sorry, but we shouldn't close it now. We are still discussing about the tier of the characters.
 
@Everyone.

Please, STOP THIS. Gyro, Magi, you are derailing the thread, and honestly, your points are points that DRB already discusses and debunked several times. You are just taking out-of-context things (that DRB already addressed, BTW) to prove something.

Can someone close this. for now? This is getting out of control. I think we should wait for DRb to come online.
 
I'm not doing that. However, this is getting out of control, obviously. I don't like to act rude to Gyro, and still, the points the others are mentioning are things we already discusses many times. (i mean, Peach being less powerful than Koopalings despite the fact that she beated, several times, beings much stronger than Koopalings, and considering the fact that she's also a Star Child...well, that simply doesn't make any sense. Gyro is taking PIS into account in order to prove something.)

We should focus more on the thread's content instead. I mean, we have to reach a conclusion, after all.
 
@Arceus

How on Earth am I remotely taking things out of context, especially when I didn't rip out direct dialouges from the game if you can already read it yourself? And DRB debunked your points about "Paper Mario = Mario" actually & your claim related to that statement doesn't sound remotely correct either, and what I mentioned further proven his points as well.
 
DRB said, in the thread, that Mario and Paper Mario are the same person. Quote:

All the characters in the Mario, regardless of their artstyle or genres, are the same characters. Nintendo only likes switching and splitting them up when a game they want to make calls for it. Paper Jam isn't a game that establish a different canon as Nintendo could care less about it.

And then he said that Paper Mario (Paper Jam) and Paper Mario (original), are different characters. He also said that Mario should have every ability Paper Mario has in his profile: However, now we have the proper revisions and the page is no longer cluttered or disorganized, we can include the abilities back into the primary Mario page. Don't worry, the Paper Mario page is not going to waste. Instead, we will rename the page Paper Mario (Mario and Luigi: Paper Jam). His summary, stats, powers, and abilities will be entirely focused on that game and that game only. This will be the best way to inform everyone the differences btw the Paper Mario from Paper Jam and the main one from the PM series.
 
Hello everyone. I was told this thread was closed and I was completely unaware of it. My apologies, especially for my long absence. Anyway, I re-opened it and updated the thread due to a game recently released and a brief retrospective. Please review before providing your thoughts on the matter. Thank you.
 
So everyone agrees? This was a long time coming, honestly. I mean, it's been mentioned countless times. Also, before making the King Boo arguement, actually click on the video on King Boo's page. That's right. The realm has zero stars. Whoever made that page/added that video should be contacted. Basically, I 100% support this and want it to be added.
 
well crap

Still, I'd say that Creation =/= Destruction. Think about it. Throw a universe at somebody. They don't need universal durability to survive that. They only need to be able to survive the individual objects (Namely stars) that are hitting them.
 
I think that this seems to make sense.
 
Still not sure on 3-C.

High 4-C is obviously fine due to multiple feats and calcs of that level. I believe we even have a Large Star level+ calc from Galaxy.

If we're merging Paper Mario with the normal page, then yeah, he's 2-B with the Pure Hearts.
 
I agree with Dino's OP; also, I agree with Dark649 mentioning on another thread that the Massively FTL+ speed ratings should be exclusive to the characters who are 3-C and above.
 
Azathoth the Abyssal Idiot said:
Still not sure on 3-C.
High 4-C is obviously fine due to multiple feats and calcs of that level. I believe we even have a Large Star level+ calc from Galaxy.

If we're merging Paper Mario with the normal page, then yeah, he's 2-B with the Pure Hearts.
Click to expand...
Well, technically, the Power Stars themselves are 3-C. The High 4-C calc comes from the fact that the Power Stars created that black shole.

And there is also the "creating a starry sky in SM64 (Wiggler confirmed that he can see stars at night)". The Power Stars have done a few strong feats, but i mean, it isn't inconsistent at all to think that Power Stars can't be 3-C because they have shown other High 4-C and 4-A feats, because those feats were made by the Power Stars, on the other hand, Power Stars at their best can personificate lumas (lumas turn into Power Stars) and can turn in many things, including galaxies.
 
ArceusBowser44 said:
Well, technically, the Power Stars themselves are 3-C. The High 4-C calc comes from the fact that the Power Stars created that black shole.
Click to expand...
Individual power stars do not have 3-C feats, unless you're talking about Lumas (who can become power stars) becoming galaxies, which I don't really trust as an actual 3-C feat to scale to people.
 
Most characters can scale to this [High 4-C+] and this [For speed since Bowser can escape black holes, but it needs to be calced].

The Galaxy ones can scale to 3-C [Lumas turning into a galaxy]. MFTL+ [Scaled from Bowser, who showcased this speed].

Spino told me [i have my doubts about it] that we should find reasons for these to scale to dura and striking strength.
 
But isn't the only reason Power Stars are scaled from Lumas is that Lumas can become Power Star? Taking the absolute maximum for a Luma and then scale it to the Power Stars seems kinda wrong.

I hope there's something else to prove that they're comparable.
 
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