One MFTL+ character can statue another MFTL+ character. Heck, two below average human characters can statue one another.Yes it doesits the literal tiering system if speed, tier differences involve being able to effectively freeze characters separated by those tiers. Infinite Speed characters see Finite speed characters as Frozen, Immeasurable sees Infinite As Frozen. The Flash straight up emulated that same effect, against the entire League. Not ppss9ble without layers
Why would it do that? Freezing like that shouldn't happen if they're in the same tier, no matter how much faster you are in MFTL+ you'll never perfectly statue an opponent, no matter how micro the movement they will still be moving. Only in actual tier differences do characters genuinely freeze others
Not to the same effect, no matter how micro the movement they will still move, true statuing is the tier differences which is what Flash did
How do we no there's no micromovement?
Because there is not a speed tier above immeasurable ? But nonetheless, in DC KO time is slowed down, not litterally stopped.
Reading the scans, that's how
Ah, so it says he's literally, completely frozen?
Yes he paused time, paused the moment and Flash was the only one completely unaffected
Completely? As compared to?
Yeah doomsday does say "...my powers can pause this moment for so long" but then Flash says "I saw you slow down time...", regardless we know Superman's power varies and i don't think he was using his full power just to talk with jl members.
...as compared to not being able to move at all, as compared to getting frozen
Yeah which means he froze time and Flash was the only one unaffected. He didnt just slow it down he froze it. Brother everyone's power varies and Flash wasn't using his full power either, we just have direct confirmation that Wally isn't affected by losing time from the distance formula, we know this while Superman IS
I already debunked those arguments, the scan, that shows that he wouldn’t know when he ended up, was explicitly because the timeline was corrupted, and therefore it does not prove that he was referring to not knowing where to go in the scan where he said time travel is risky
the arguments themself explain how they counter that
immeasurable is different from MFTL+, MFTL+ has a bare minimum of a very high finite speed and extends to all finite speeds above it, immeasurable speed has a bare minimum of a very high infinite speed and extends to all infinite speeds above it, one MFTL+ character can’t view another MFTL+ character as completely frozen because one finite number can’t be infinitely higher than another finite number, that doesn’t apply to immeasurable speed because one infinite number can be infinitely higher than another infinite number
Which is contridicted because Flash says he slowed down time, not freeze it. Bro do you honestly think Flash is not going to notice something going on with time and activate his speed ?
Well, yeah i agree that his c/r should scale, but only "via time travel" is accepted by mods currently.
It's not contradicted he still froze time
you're acting like he still didn't freeze time the point is that we already know Flash isn't affected by that regardless of knowing it will happen or not and Superman IS
Which implies layers or a higher tier entirely of which this wiki uses neither, currently we have no distinction between the 2, if this got accepted you'd effectively be saying Flash's Immeasurable Speed profile requires a little note that says "infinitely above other immeasurable speed characters like Superman"
What do you mean not contridicted, one says he stopped time, other says he slowed down time they are different things. Yeah Flash isn't effected cause he could have sensed something happening with time in the first place and adjust his power level accordingly, while Superman probably did not cause he wasn't aware of it.It's not contradicted he still froze time
It's not contradicted he still froze time
Brother because its NOT contradicted
it just means time slowed and then stopped "I can only pause this moment so long" "I noticed you slowing down time" these are not contradictory statements it just means time was slowed before stopped we literally saw an angry Flash get hit with a similar type of thing (the stasis arrow) which as Mr Terrific said "no distance without time" and Flash despite having speed was temporarily stopped...until he activated his powers even without the presence of time and got out. Wally has proven he doesn't need time, Superman does, hence why he was stopped (also for someone whos supposed to be relative to the Flash he sure didnt notice Wally activating his speed or notice Doomsday doing it either). Also it doesn't matter if he activated his speed or not because the entire idea behind it is that tike is stopped, if he was a finite speed character he would've been stopped all the same
It's an antifeat regardless because he was literally frozen in time. It's not slowed time it is frozen time, as I already explained they don't contradict one another, it just means that time slowed before stopping. The fact that we are genuinely arguing the semantics over the guy who controls time who literally SAID "I can only pause this moment so long" pause it's right there he paused time
Yeah, that sounds like it's just resistance to time deceleration and not really a speed feat in itself.
That seems to fit with that the King Omega event happened afterwards.
The thread has acted as if Superman time travelling is fairly casual, maybe it's just been a while but I don't remember any mention of him struggling to go fast enough to time travel, thats not some extreme speed absolute limit type stuff. Also if we chainscale him being comparable to Flash characters sometimes why not based off of what he clearly can't here? I mean you're effectively saying that the rest of the League can't have this counted against them either despite the fact that they are also FrozenI am not sure if we can discard explicit speed feats for Superman just because Flash characters are treated as much swifter, especially given that Superman has elsewhere stated that he is only sometimes consciously pushing himself into his most extreme Superspeed territory. It is not always anywhere near fully automatically active.
Once again that's the idea of layers a "higher Infinity" that emulates those tier differences, this site doesn't use them however so Immeasurable Speed characters shouldn't be getting statued by one another
although there are staff discussions about implementing Layers or Irrelevant Speed back it just doesnt exist rn so as of now its an anti feat
Im sorry but this was never a thing in the wiki. An immeasurable character can absolutely statue another one, moving unbounded by time doesn't mean ignorance of chainscalingOnce again that's the idea of layers a "higher Infinity" that emulates those tier differences, this site doesn't use them however so Immeasurable Speed characters shouldn't be getting statued by one another
I never said it was a thing in the wiki, I'm saying that that's not how Immeasurable Speed works without layers however. I can guarantee this even further because I promise you that there is not a single "Immeasurable speed" listing for a character that has statued another "Immeasurable Speed character" that states "Immeasurable Speed, X is able to actually statue Y showcasing a higher Infinity of Immeasurable Speed" or anything of the sorts. And that would be the organization required to denote these "higher infinties" of Immeasurable Speed. Otherwise Flash and Superman are going to have the same tier with no distinguishers despite a literal statuing of a Speed difference. Thats not ignoring chainscaling that's called being logical
This thread hasn’t acted like Superman is casually immeasurable, my original suggestion was literally immeasurable at peak which is the opposite of casual, and no one has suggested that he scales to flash
We don’t have layers into high universes level yet our high universe level page admits that you can be infinitely above a high universe level character and still be high universe level, the same is true for immeasurable speed
that doesn’t mean it’s impossible that just means that no other fictional character has done it that we know of, and frankly flash isn’t any other fictional character
The profiles can just note that flash cam statue Superman, simple distinguisher
Your original suggestion when making the thread says nothing about Immeasurable at peak
you just say he should have Immeasurable speed (Also Superman has been compared directly to Flash in this thread, some even saying theyre shown to be relative)
Fair enough
Really? Dude there are over 30,000 characters on this site and you don't think any other character has done that? I mean even if not visually shouldn't anyone with R>F over another character bare minimum have that attached to their speed rating?
I highly doubt Flash was either, also as I've pointed out multiple times that straight up doesn't matter. I've pointed out that the Flash has been put in a similar situation already with his speed activated and got completely stopped in true stasis...until he immediately got out of it and just activated his powers again. But Superman and the rest of the League were frozen until Doomsday undid his time stop
Not a single "Immeasurable Speed character that states X is able to statue Y character" humm...
-Acheron
-Game version of Sonic
-Super Mario Bros version of Sonic
No, I said his speed should be upgraded to MFT+, immeasurable at peak, proof is the first reply to this thread since that quoted my OP, and I said that Superman is commonly portrayed as comparable to flash I never said he scales to himYour original suggestion when making the thread says nothing about Immeasurable at peak
Just look at your opening statement it just says it should be upgraded "at peak" isn't mentioned
Nice cherry picking of my full quote, it's not at all justified how I quoted it note the lack of denotation concerning a speed of a higher Infinity.
well the vast majority of those characters aren’t immeasurable and fiction very rarely confirms that there’s no micromovements of who someone is blitzing, so no I don’t think any character on this site has statued an immeasurable speed character
So if we agree that neither of them was at their peak statistics at that moment then it is irrelevant to their peak statistics
Just look at the first comment that quotes my OP back then it said at peak, but I’ve changed it to via time travel since then
