Superman speed upgrade and abilities addition

[YuseiDragon1]

This sounds like an outlier fra
Disagree.

 

[Rgerdeena]

This sounds like an outlier fra
Disagree.

Can you be more specific

 

[YuseiDragon1]

Can you be more specific

too inconsistent compared to several other feats.

 

[Rgerdeena]

too inconsistent compared to several other feats.

What is too inconsistent

 

[YuseiDragon1]

Your proposed speed fra

 

[Rgerdeena]

Your proposed speed fra

Within the 4 years that he has been as strong and fast as he is he has gotten 3 statements of being able to time travel one of which is explicitly from raw speed, that is enough considering the fact that he heavily varies for multiple reasons(power varying by emotional state, requiring full mental usage to use his full power, holding back heavily, constantly growing more powerful due to continuous exposure to sunlight, that process being slightly halted every time he encounters kryptonite or uses the solar flare) and while he’s been as strong and as fast as he currently is he has been repeatedly stated to be beyond space time which makes it not that unbelievable that his speed can be beyond time

 

[Rgerdeena]

bump

 

[Rgerdeena]

Bump

 

[Rgerdeena]

Bump

 

[Antvasima]

Which staff members have responded in this thread previously, and what do they currently need to evaluate?

 

[Rgerdeena]

Which staff members have responded in this thread previously, and what do they currently need to evaluate?

Godernt and darkdragonmedeus and you have all responded

The problem is that you have all agreed to different stuff, godernt and you have agreed with immeasurable speed via time travel and darkdragonmedeus disagreed with it, you agreed with vibration manipulation and godernt and darkdragonmedeus haven’t commented about it(that one’s probably my fault for not updating the OP as soon as I figured out what to call it), godernt agreed with resistance to limited power nullification and darkdragonmedeus and you disagreed with it and none of you have commented on my solution of just making it “resistance to effects of kryptonite”, the only things you’ve all agreed with are time travel and intangibility and I’d rather not only add two abilities since nothing has the majority of staff members disagreeing except for the resistance to power nullification

 

[Godernet]

With the updated proposal, Vibration Manipulation is fine with me.

My previous stances still stand, except I do have another way we can index this Resistance to Kryptonite.

Spoiler: Kryptonite

As Batman said, the reason Kryptonite does not affect him in this mode is due to his Yellow Sun Energy being released outside of his body, giving him a way to temporarily block all forms of Kryptonite Radiation.

In that case, we wouldn't index this as a resistance to Power Null at all, since the power-negating effects Kryptonite has on his body never even reach him to be resisted.

Rather than that, we should give him a Resistance to Radiation Manipulation (Limited or a Flat rating could work depending on whether you think this aura blocks out all radiation or solely all kryptonite radiation, but I would argue for Limited for now)

And explain in the justification that this is talking specifically about Kryptonite.

Superman should also get Enhanced Aura in this mode since its a greater mode of outward energy-based protection than the normal one that just protects his clothes and skin from grime.

 

[Rgerdeena]

With the updated proposal, Vibration Manipulation is fine with me.

My previous stances still stand, except I do have another way we can index this Resistance to Kryptonite.

Spoiler: Kryptonite

As Batman said, the reason Kryptonite does not affect him in this mode is due to his Yellow Sun Energy being released outside of his body, giving him a way to temporarily block all forms of Kryptonite Radiation.

In that case, we wouldn't index this as a resistance to Power Null at all, since the power-negating effects Kryptonite has on his body never even reach him to be resisted.

Rather than that, we should give him a Resistance to Radiation Manipulation (Limited or a Flat rating could work depending on whether you think this aura blocks out all radiation or solely all kryptonite radiation, but I would argue for Limited for now)

And explain in the justification that this is talking specifically about Kryptonite.

Superman should also get Enhanced Aura in this mode since its a greater mode of outward energy-based protection than the normal one that just protects his clothes and skin from grime.

Makes sense to me

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

With the updated proposal, Vibration Manipulation is fine with me.

My previous stances still stand, except I do have another way we can index this Resistance to Kryptonite.

Spoiler: Kryptonite

As Batman said, the reason Kryptonite does not affect him in this mode is due to his Yellow Sun Energy being released outside of his body, giving him a way to temporarily block all forms of Kryptonite Radiation.

In that case, we wouldn't index this as a resistance to Power Null at all, since the power-negating effects Kryptonite has on his body never even reach him to be resisted.

Rather than that, we should give him a Resistance to Radiation Manipulation (Limited or a Flat rating could work depending on whether you think this aura blocks out all radiation or solely all kryptonite radiation, but I would argue for Limited for now)

And explain in the justification that this is talking specifically about Kryptonite.

Superman should also get Enhanced Aura in this mode since its a greater mode of outward energy-based protection than the normal one that just protects his clothes and skin from grime.

Agreed

 

[Rgerdeena]

Bump

 

[Rgerdeena]

Bump

 

[Rgerdeena]

Bump

 

[Rgerdeena]

Bump

 

[Rgerdeena]

Bump

 

[Rgerdeena]

Bump

 

[Rgerdeena]

Bump

 

[Rgerdeena]

Bump

 

[Rgerdeena]

Bump

 

[Rgerdeena]

Bump

 

[Antvasima]

I also agree with Godernet's analysis above.

 

[Antvasima]

Just a question: Superman would not get regular immeasurable combat speed, correct, as I don't think that he has ever demonstrated it, but rather only via time travel?

 

[Rgerdeena]

Just a question: Superman would not get regular immeasurable combat speed, correct, as I don't think that he has ever demonstrated it, but rather only via time travel?

correct, Superman would not get regular immeasurable combat speed

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. Thank you for the information.

Then it seems fine to me.

 

[Antvasima]

Which staff members have thought what here?

 

[Rgerdeena]

Which staff members have thought what here?

You and godernt and darkdragonmedeus

You and godernt agreed with immeasurable speed via time travel and darkdragonmedeus disagreed with immeasurable speed, you agreed with immortality(type 1) and godernt and darkdragonmedeus are neutral on it, all 3 of you have agreed with time travel and vibration manipulation and intangibility and resistance to radiation manipulation and enhanced aura

 

[Antvasima]

You and godernt and darkdragonmedeus

You and godernt agreed with immeasurable speed via time travel and darkdragonmedeus disagreed with immeasurable speed, you agreed with immortality(type 1) and godernt and darkdragonmedeus are neutral on it, all 3 of you have agreed with time travel and vibration manipulation and intangibility and resistance to radiation manipulation and enhanced aura

@Godernet @DarkDragonMedeus

Can you try to reach some kind of agreement here please?

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I mean, I could acknowledge some consistency. We currently have profiles for characters having Immeasurable travel speed but lack combat speed on same level; though AKM sama had gone on record to say we should be treating that as regular Time Travel rather than speed. Because it would pretty be the same thing as giving everyone with teleportation and/or instant transmission Infinite travel speed; but not combat. I basically agree with AKM sama and we have been making lots of threads doing that, but I do not think we ever went through with making said changes.

I'm fine with making the speed rating specifically saying just travel speed and not combat speed. But definitely against giving Superman solid Immeasurable speed given the countless inconsistencies. And even if we add it, they may still be on the list of projects for when we finally do apply the idea that "Time travel without combat/reaction speed being Immeasurable isn't truly Immeasurable" project.

 

[Godernet]

My stance on that matter is pretty much the same as DDMs

 

[Rgerdeena]

I mean, I could acknowledge some consistency. We currently have profiles for characters having Immeasurable travel speed but lack combat speed on same level; though AKM sama had gone on record to say we should be treating that as regular Time Travel rather than speed. Because it would pretty be the same thing as giving everyone with teleportation and/or instant transmission Infinite travel speed; but not combat. I basically agree with AKM sama and we have been making lots of threads doing that, but I do not think we ever went through with making said changes.

I'm fine with making the speed rating specifically saying just travel speed and not combat speed. But definitely against giving Superman solid Immeasurable speed given the countless inconsistencies. And even if we add it, they may still be on the list of projects for when we finally do apply the idea that "Time travel without combat/reaction speed being Immeasurable isn't truly Immeasurable" project.

Is there a reason we’re assuming he does it via travel speed not via reaction speed even though generally reaction speed>combat speed>travel speed and there is no indication to what kind of speed he uses to time travel, also what inconsistencies are being referred to because I’m four years that he’s been as powerful as he is a character that heavily varies has gotten three statements suggesting immeasurable speed, not saying your assumptions are 100% wrong I am just greatly confused about where they came from

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Superman can't normally travel with ease nor does he have feats of reacting to attacks that already struck him or any sort of like automatic precognition sort of thing; typical Immeasurable combat/reaction speed stuff. And when he does travel, he often needs to acceleration by building up acceleration. And even the time travel statements merely word it as merely going FTL and running laps around the earth; aka relatively following outdated theories on time travel. He time travels basically the same methods as Epoch from Chrono Trigger whenever he does time travel. Not to mention; it's common for him to accidently travel too far back in time; kind of like the plot of the first Superman movie. He only meant to travel slightly back in time to save Lois Lane from dying, but momentarily traveled all the way back the the Jurassic periods. The same thing often happens to his primary canon comic counterparts and especially his Post-Crisis and beyond versions.

 

[Rgerdeena]

Superman can't normally travel with ease nor does he have feats of reacting to attacks that already struck him or any sort of like automatic precognition sort of thing; typical Immeasurable combat/reaction speed stuff.

He heavily varies, also most immeasurable speed characters haven’t demonstrated everything immeasurable speed characters can do

And when he does travel, he often needs to acceleration by building up acceleration.

Nothing in post infinite frontier has suggested that as far as I’m aware

And even the time travel statements merely word it as merely going FTL and running laps around the earth; aka relatively following outdated theories on time travel.

None of the statements mention either of those things

Not to mention; it's common for him to accidently travel too far back in time; kind of like the plot of the first Superman movie. He only meant to travel slightly back in time to save Lois Lane from dying, but momentarily traveled all the way back the the Jurassic periods. The same thing often happens to his primary canon comic counterparts and especially his Post-Crisis and beyond versions.

Do you have any examples that actually apply to post infinite frontier Superman instead of just an example from the movie

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

He heavily varies, also most immeasurable speed characters haven’t demonstrated everything immeasurable speed characters can do

Problem is, this is Marvel/DC we're talking about, the 2 biggest verses that literally have an entire page explaining how strict we are with scaling rules and acknowledging existence of massive outliers.

Nothing in post infinite frontier has suggested that as far as I’m aware

I'm aware Post-Warworld Apocalypse has statements about Rebirth Superman "Growing so much stronger/faster that he forgot the meaning of time or weight," but those are kind of vague, may be out of context, and pure speculation. It just means his own internal strength/speed are much higher than he ever felt before but not quite proof of anything infinite let alone immeasurable.

o you have any examples that actually apply to post infinite frontier Superman instead of just an example from the movie

I cannot think of any, I haven't followed recent comics in ages; not to mention streaming sites (Which we cannot share URLs publicly for obvious reasons) have been getting much harder to find than ever. But to my knowledge, most Post-Warworld Apocalypse stuff has been mostly speculative without quite being demonstrated and seems to suffer much of the same issues as the Prime 1000000 version.

 

[Rgerdeena]

Problem is, this is Marvel/DC we're talking about, the 2 biggest verses that literally have an entire page explaining how strict we are with scaling rules and acknowledging existence of massive outliers.

Um the rules are pretty much, use feats and official comparisons and adhere to consistency and common sense and things are a case by case basis and don’t scale all stats based on one stat and don’t have missing context for feats, all of which is pretty much the rules for powerscaling in general as far as I’m aware

I'm aware Post-Warworld Apocalypse has statements about Rebirth Superman "Growing so much stronger/faster that he forgot the meaning of time or weight," but those are kind of vague, may be out of context, and pure speculation. It just means his own internal strength/speed are much higher than he ever felt before but not quite proof of anything infinite let alone immeasurable.

As true as all of this is, those statements aren’t why he’s being proposed as immeasurable speed, the one’s that are the reason are a statement of him being able to time travel and a statement of him having time traveled and a statement of him having time traveled via raw speed

I cannot think of any, I haven't followed recent comics in ages; not to mention streaming sites (Which we cannot share URLs publicly for obvious reasons) have been getting much harder to find than ever. But to my knowledge, most Post-Warworld Apocalypse stuff has been mostly speculative without quite being demonstrated and seems to suffer much of the same issues as the Prime 1000000version.

Nothing on his profile is based on speculation and nothing being proposed is based on speculation

 

[Rgerdeena]

Welp since it doesn’t seem like I’m going to win the argument about the exact mechanics Superman’s speed and the only thing that doesn’t have 3 staff agreements is immortality(type 1), I’ll go ahead and add all of the stuff that’s been accepted and save what hasn’t been for another time

 

[Antvasima]

Superman can't normally travel with ease nor does he have feats of reacting to attacks that already struck him or any sort of like automatic precognition sort of thing; typical Immeasurable combat/reaction speed stuff. And when he does travel, he often needs to acceleration by building up acceleration. And even the time travel statements merely word it as merely going FTL and running laps around the earth; aka relatively following outdated theories on time travel. He time travels basically the same methods as Epoch from Chrono Trigger whenever he does time travel. Not to mention; it's common for him to accidently travel too far back in time; kind of like the plot of the first Superman movie. He only meant to travel slightly back in time to save Lois Lane from dying, but momentarily traveled all the way back the the Jurassic periods. The same thing often happens to his primary canon comic counterparts and especially his Post-Crisis and beyond versions.

I suppose that this also seems to make sense.

Welp since it doesn’t seem like I’m going to win the argument about the exact mechanics Superman’s speed and the only thing that doesn’t have 3 staff agreements is immortality(type 1), I’ll go ahead and add all of the stuff that’s been accepted and save what hasn’t been for another time

What changes have you applied?