Supernatural downgrade?

[Ryop]

Why the angles has Massively Hypersonic speed? Sam and Dean and others humans fought against angles and kill some during the series and they always were able to keep up and react (4:14-4:34)to thier movment speed and proably threre is lot of othes exmple that i forgot,they are at best supersonic or something but MH sound to me very ridiculous and complety contrast the series for my opinion

 

[WeeklyBattles]

According to the profiles theyre all comparable to Castiel who did this, but trying to downgrade characters based on your opinion isnt a viable argument at all.

 

[Nico-v11]

The reason for this is because Supernatural has A LOT of PIS. So basically the angels are supposed to be that fast....but Sam and Dean's plot armor keeps them going

 

[Ryop]

that only one feat and that contrast lot of feat in the series this is outilier

that not PIS never in the series angels ever blitz Sam or Dean by pure speed and they(Sam and Dean) fought a lot of angles without problem(until they use their magic or somthing but they not defeat them using speed)


Lily Sunder can fought with angles and Sam and Dean could kill her with gun or by themself

no anlgel has combat speed of MH

 

[Nico-v11]

Their profiles don't say that they have MH combat speed, only reactions

 

[Nico-v11]

Actually you can tell that angels are only as fast as they are because they teleport, not exactly because of how they physically move.

 

[Ryop]

Their profiles don't say that they have MH combat speed, only reactions

If they has MH reaction there is no way that Dean could kill Zachariah or blitz Gadreel or fight and kill Lily who able to keep up with angles,so no

unless you mean to tell me they have MH reaction and human\subsonic\supersonic combat speed which i can accept i guess

 

[Nico-v11]

"unless you mean to tell me they have MH reaction and human\subsonic\supersonic combat speed which i can accept i guess"

Yup pretty much that

 

[Ryop]

"unless you mean to tell me they have MH reaction and human\subsonic\supersonic combat speed which i can accept i guess"
Yup pretty much that

Ok,But still dont you think the different is wayyy to big? i think we should consider that feat as outilier

 

[Ultima_Reality]

@Ryop

How so? Supernatural is a extremely inconsistent series who focuses on two skilled humans hunting supernatural creatures, of course there will be PIS, and Angels and Demons are always depicted as Far above humans, even Demons who are really weak compared to Angels can easily stop bullets

 

[Nico-v11]

The difference is absurdly big but it makes sense (at least to me anyway). We can wait for more input though

 

[Ryop]

@Ryop
How so? Supernatural is a extremely inconsistent series who focuses on two skilled humans hunting supernatural creatures, of course there will be PIS, and Angels and Demons are always depicted as Far above humans, even Demons who are really weak compared to Angels can easily stop bullets

they are stronger than human becuse they have their snap finger magic and all this kind of thing but never they ever introduce as physically far faster or stronger than human

 

[Nico-v11]

Ummm....definitely far stronger and durable

https://youtu.be/dZ9HvhteCDc

 

[Gargoyle_1]

Oh it's ridiculous. Yeah cool, so is FTL FF7, Universe level DMC etc.

Being ridiculous means nothing.

 

[Ryop]

Ummm....definitely far stronger and durable
https://youtu.be/dZ9HvhteCDc

you Misunderstood i mean they are not far sronger than humans until the point they are MH and Sam\Dean peck human(in comba speed)

But if we alerdy talking about this,what you bring for exmple not so imperssive it not that far stronger than normal human luffy in chapter 1 has better feat

 

[Nico-v11]

That's not a strength feat. Actually Castiel was never overpowered there so it doesn't matter

 

[Nico-v11]

"Once possessing a vessel, angels use their power to dramatically increase the physical strength threshold of their hosts. Their strength varies from angel to angel, depending on their position within the celestial hierarchy; lesser angels (cherubs, rit zien and common angels) are still considerably powerful and are able to destroy most monsters and regular to mid-level demons, while seraphim, mid-level angels, can destroy all monsters and middle to high-level demons and virtually all lesser angels. Archangels are the most powerful class of angel of all, and one of the most powerful beings in Creation overall. As such, they easily outclass most other supernatural beings with God, Death, and Amara being their only confirmed superiors."

Straight from the Supernatural wiki

 

[Ryop]

But what so "wow" in this? surive gun's shot and knife? robocop can do that

my point is that angles(and other certue) in Suvernatrul isnt somthing so much "big" or strong comper to human,even Drakness almost got Defeated by some witch or Demon

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Supernatural has PIS / CIS galore. And Sam and Dean have a jobber aura greater than Batman's.

Also, "Angels have no speed".

Really?

Astaroth, a regular demon (Fodder to angels) is a bullet-timer. Mercury is super fast and is capable of approaching Sam and Dean from another room, taking blood samples from the two, and leaving the room in less time than it takes for them to feel the sting. Lucifer killed him. Castiel can search entire cities in seconds by teleporting across everything, an he suggests doing similar actions on other episodes. Seraphs like Naomi can scatter your atoms across the universe. Not to mention how angels are "beings made of light" in their true form and some dialogue suggests that they can fly across the universe, and the implications that my carry (Which I don't put on profiles sincei it's purely speculatory)

As for your claim that angels aren't much stronger than regular Sam and Dean... Really? Basic demons can destroy walls and rip apart bunker doors with multiple tons of pressure on them. Knights of Hell like Abaddon can cause thunderbolts by screaming, while Cain provokes quakes through his presence alone. The "White Lights" technique that some high-level demons have can blow up small buildings, and Princes of Hell like Azazel can create entire thunderstorms days in advance through their presence. The entire plot of one episode in Season 4 is that Castiel + Uriel were going to explode a town Sodom & Gommorah style. Hael carved the Grand Canyon, and Samandriel's screams of pain were generating tornados all across the state, both are weak angels.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Also genius, Sam and Dean can only kill angels and demons through specific weapons like the Demon-killing Knife, the Colt and an Angel Blade, or specific spells and items like Holy Fire. They NEVER defeat even regular demons in hand-to-hand combat.

Hell, the first demon which ever appeared in the series, and who isn't impressive nor notable in the slightest, ripped an airplane door open.

And by the way:

"even Drakness almost got Defeated by some witch or Demon"]

Ignoring the lack of grammer, no she didn't. The Darkness got attacked by the combined force of a coven of witches doing a spell which they did lot of prep for. She deliberatedly allowed herself to be hit, the spell did **** all to her and the witches all died. Then she got hit by the combined power of demonkind, and even after that by the entire Host of Heaven. She was left rather hurt, indeed, but most of her damage was exclusively on her host.

Oh, and after all that she was stabbed by Lucifer's Lance, and she was still capable of overpowering God. The same God who created the Universe, Heaven, Purgatory, Hell, and many other universes billions of years ago, all of which were destroyed by The Darkness much like she could destroy God's curretn universe.

 

[Ryop]

Yeas but stiil yet Dean and San kill countiless Demons and even angels,in the end they has no actual combat speed feat that put them in high place,you might say this is PIS but this PIS happened all 12 season non stop every time

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

90% of the time they kill demons and angels by sneaking up on them. That's not a feat.

 

[Ryop]

Also:

"kill angels and demons through specific weapons like the Demon-killing Knife, the Colt and an Angel Blade, or specific spells and items like Holy Fire. They NEVER defeat even regular demons in hand-to-hand combat"

put the spell aside,that not excuse it like to say that if i got a knife that can kill Luffy i will able to do that(no) if the different between thier power was so big a knife or gun wouldn't change anything

 

[Ryop]

90% of the time they kill demons and angels by sneaking up on them. That's not a feat.

The fact that they unable to react in time and dodge thier attack is enough

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

... What?

No, what the hell are you saying.

If I have a weapon that can kill a 2-C, and I can stab said 2-C somehow, I will kill them. Of course, that would require a plot of PIS, CIS and Jobbing on my side, but it's not impossible.

 

[Ryop]

This is impossible if you are far weaker than the enemy in huge gap (like Luffy who MHS an normal human) you cant even see him you will die before you brain even understand what happen

the fact they able to kill Demon\angels with their human level speed\reaction show the Demon\angels surely stronger than humans being physically but not at so big gap

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

No, it's not impossible. You don't understand how Durability Bypassing and sneaking works.

 

[Antvasima]

I think that Matthew seems to make sense.

 

[Ryop]

No, it's not impossible. You don't understand how Durability Bypassing and sneaking works.

So you think that if you had a knife that can kill Goku for exmple you would able to do that? dude you couldnt even kill MMA fighter,΃ think you are the one who dont understand the different between the power of normal human and real superhuman

 

[WeeklyBattles]

@Ryop If a normal human with a knife that can ignore durability snuck up on Goku and stabbed him then yes they could easily kill him. You dont seem to understand durability negation.

 

[Ryop]

@Ryop If a normal human with a knife that can ignore durability snuck up on Goku and stabbed him then yes they could easily kill him. You dont seem to understand durability negation.

I am not talking about surprise attack,they not only "snuck up" all ther series they fought Demons\Angels head on and still win

 

[Ryukama]

Okay I might have mistaken what your comment meant.

If you mean a regular person with a durability negating knife couldn't kill Goku since Goku is too fast. Well yeah if he was actively trying to dodge and avoid getting hit while neutralizing that person of course.

However if Goku was getting sneaked up on and just allowed himself to get hit by the knife without paying attention or doing anything at all to make sure that it didn't happen for some reason, yeah he would die.

Also MMA fighters can and have gotten sucker punched when off guard. You most certainly could kill one with your hypothetical situation.

 

[Promestein]

There's obviously a lot of PIS at hand, too.

 

[Ryukama]

There's obviously a lot of PIS at hand, too.

I agree.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

^ This.

Sam and Dean kill angels and demons with tools, prep-time, sneaking, magic, celestial / infernal weapons, and a good dosage of CIS, PIS and Jobbing.

Put Sam and Dean vs Castiel in a Vs.Match and this happens.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MuRgqLZbo3g

 

[Ryop]

Okay I might have mistaken what your comment meant.
If you mean a regular person with a durability negating knife couldn't kill Goku since Goku is too fast. Well yeah if he was actively trying to dodge and avoid getting hit while neutralizing that person of course.

However if Goku was getting sneaked up on and just allowed himself to get hit by the knife without paying attention or doing anything at all to make sure that it didn't happen for some reason, yeah he would die.

Also MMA fighters can and have gotten sucker punched when off guard. You most certainly could kill one with your hypothetical situation.

I mean that just becuse they have specials knife\gun not mean they should be able to kill them because if the angels were really far stronger and faster phicaliy(for exmple somene like luffy or even Gon) so they would able to rip they head off before Dean\Sam even know what happend or somthing like that,not that the knife itself cannot kill them i know it can.


Again,I am not talking about off guard cases i talking bout that there were lot of case that Dean\Sam overcome Demons\others in face to face fight(and no use of magic from the Demons\angles only physically ability),which prove the different between normal human and super creatures not that far

 

[Ryukama]

Again if the weapon negates durability and was used on them sneaking up while the person was not actively doing anything to try and stop themselves from getting hit by it, they'd be killed. The strength and speed advantage doesn't matter in that case.

I wouldn't know of many more cases. However as Matt said there's perhaps a lot of PIS involved. I'm not sure. I'd need to watch more Supernatural to be able to say.

 

[Antvasima]

I agree with the rest of the staff. Perhaps we should close this thread?

 

[Deerest_of_Lords]

This is even addressed in show in an episode on season 6. Sam goes up against an Angel and he's all like "you're going to knife fight an angel?" and scoffs at him. He then promptly gets stabbed in the back by Dean.

Pretty much sums it up

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

This should be closed.