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The commoners thread: Discussing Ultima's "On the Many, Many Incoherences of the Tiering System"

Phoenks said:
"Nonduality is a fake power"

This is the same energy as saying that something can't be aspatial without being transcendent of space.

Which is, blatantly wrong. Abstracts aren't inherently transcendental to the reality they exist in.

In the same way, you can exist independently of certain concepts and dualities without transcending them.

Crazy take.
Click to expand...
which create new question, what is transcending something ?? iirc there isn't any singular definition of transcend

what is attribute or properties of transcend?
 
BestMGQScalerEver said:
Transcend can either mean be above or cross/travel through something. Many definitions.
Click to expand...
Iamunanimousinthat said:
The most accurate definition of transcend is beyond.
Click to expand...
SYPHe5D said:
Beyond/outside/cross/ahead etc that’s why it heavily depends on the context that is being used.
Click to expand...
so this is where empirical data comes to play. Basically we need to analyze if data/feats/statements match with common/accurate definition of transcends, otherwise it has different interpretation.
 
Ultima's tiering system is similar to my own personal tiering system I made like a year or so ago, so I understand it a fair bit.

Though, I hadn't thought of the words "Quantitative" and "Qualitative" when describing my stuff. It's a lot easier to understand with those words in mind.

I always just thought there were "systems" of superiority.

The first system was something like spatial superiority.

The second system was something like conceptual superiority.

And after that, it would be up to the verse to decide what "systems" could come after that. You could have an infinite amount of these fundamentally superior systems of measurement, with infinite steps within each of them.

"Boundless" would then, simply put, be an existence that exists beyond all systems.

Kind of cool to see I had come to the same conclusion as Ultima as to what the "best" tiering system would be.
 
Phoenks said:
Ultima's tiering system is similar to my own personal tiering system I made like a year or so ago, so I understand it a fair bit.

Though, I hadn't thought of the words "Quantitative" and "Qualitative" when describing my stuff. It's a lot easier to understand with those words in mind.

I always just thought there were "systems" of superiority.

The first system was something like spatial superiority.

The second system was something like conceptual superiority.

And after that, it would be up to the verse to decide what "systems" could come after that. You could have an infinite amount of these fundamentally superior systems of measurement, with infinite steps within each of them.

"Boundless" would then, simply put, be an existence that exists beyond all systems.

Kind of cool to see I had come to the same conclusion as Ultima as to what the "best" tiering system would be.
Click to expand...
so conceptual superiority will be always above spatial ?
 
So what I'm getting is that Ultima wants to make a theoretical non-contradicted apophatic theology case tier 0.
And I'm noticing Nasuverse was never brought up as a case that wouldn't qualify, so I can't help but think of the idea of tier 0 Nasuverse.
 
Andika_CL_atmadja said:
so conceptual superiority will be always above spatial ?
Click to expand...
Nah, not always. What I meant by Conceptual Superiority is being beyond the limits of what a universal concept like space could contain or define.
Bobsican said:
So what I'm getting is that Ultima wants to make a theoretical non-contradicted apophatic theology case tier 0.
And I'm noticing Nasuverse was never brought up as a case that wouldn't qualify, so I can't help but think of the idea of tier 0 Nasuverse.
Click to expand...
I honestly doubt Fate qualifies. People such as Shiki have been said to be the Root itself/have a deep connection to the root.

So that connection probably disqualifies it from being tier 0, if I'm to guess.

I would say it would remain 1-A, tbh.
 
Ultima explained cases where a character can "relate" to the tier 0 thing (or "be" such, aka, avatars) while still qualifying, so I could see it being arguable.
 
Phoenks said:
Nah, not always. What I meant by Conceptual Superiority is being beyond the limits of what a universal concept like space could contain or define.

I honestly doubt Fate qualifies. People such as Shiki have been said to be the Root itself/have a deep connection to the root.

So that connection probably disqualifies it from being tier 0, if I'm to guess.

I would say it would remain 1-A, tbh.
Click to expand...
there's a statement somewhere that states attempting to name the root automatically makes that concept similar, but not the true thing.

Also nasuverse dimensions are treated like r>f layers
 
Phoenks said:
Nah, not always. What I meant by Conceptual Superiority is being beyond the limits of what a universal concept like space could contain or define.

I honestly doubt Fate qualifies. People such as Shiki have been said to be the Root itself/have a deep connection to the root.

So that connection probably disqualifies it from being tier 0, if I'm to guess.

I would say it would remain 1-A, tbh.
Click to expand...
There can be multiple Tier 0s if they all represent the same monad-like figure/force there just can't be multiple of those forces, so Shiki would still qualify.
 
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