The Dawn Machine vs The Machine God

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Both at their strongest, speed equalized.

If Mother Brain Makina is too much, we can use a weaker key, who wins?
The Dawn Machine:
Makina:
Inconclusive:
​

 

[deonment]

Uh, what stops dawn machine from passiving eden, given she resists none of dawn machine passives, also how many universes does eden scale to, also can she even put down dawn machine

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

What are the passives?

She has reactive evolution, which essentially gives her infinite evolution, if she can't win, she will become a version of herself that can ie she will gain the resistances needed.

Makina scales above above 3 universes; Kuro=Paradise Eden<Abyss Tartarus<Makina. That's pretty irrelevant though, Makina basically has an infinite army of 2-C beings.

She has various hax like sealing, regen isn't a problem. She also has her own passive aura, which causes her opponents body to surrender.

 

[Setsuna_tenma]

What are the passives?

She has reactive evolution, which essentially gives her infinite evolution, if she can't win, she will become a version of herself that can ie she will gain the resistances needed.

Makina scales above above 3 universes; Kuro=Paradise Eden<Abyss Tartarus<Makina. That's pretty irrelevant though, Makina basically has an infinite army of 2-C beings.

She has various hax like sealing, regen isn't a problem. She also has her own passive aura, which causes her opponents body to surrender.

passive law hax that mind hax people

 

[deonment]

What are the passives?

She has reactive evolution, which essentially gives her infinite evolution, if she can't win, she will become a version of herself that can ie she will gain the resistances needed.

Makina scales above above 3 universes; Kuro=Paradise Eden<Abyss Tartarus<Makina. That's pretty irrelevant though, Makina basically has an infinite army of 2-C beings.

She has various hax like sealing, regen isn't a problem. She has has her own passive aura, which causes her opponents body to surrender.

Mind morality corruption Law and also said passives have an addictive effect to whoever are affected by them

okay then, but can she do that if she is already under the effect of the sunlight and can the resistances make her un-mindhaxed

TDM scales to 4 so it doesnt matter on the ap side anyways and they would also all get turned against her too

The sealing shouldnt work given that it seems to be too big for the box and there is nothing for it to turn into said box

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

True Makina won't even directly be in the fight, she is sending out an infinite army of 2-C's all with the abilities of her first key, and will basically be remote controlling them.

Not to mention stuff like clairvoyance, omniscient etc. She can pretty much figure out Dawn's abilities and then adapt, hence why i made an option for the weaker Makina in the op, cause she seems a bit broken. The infinite army will be endlessly replenished also.

As for the sealing that scan on her profile was done at the beginning of her God powers, when she was far weaker, i don't think Dawn's size is gonna matter much considering the range of her abilities.

 

[deonment]

True Makina won't even directly be in the fight, she is sending out an infinite army of 2-C's all with the abilities of her first key, and will basically be remote controlling them.

Not to mention stuff like clairvoyance, omniscient etc. She can pretty much figure out Dawn's abilities and then adapt, hence why i made an option for the weaker Makina in the op, cause she seems a bit broken. The infinite army will be endlessly replenished also.

As for the sealing that scan on her profile was done at the beginning of her God powers, when she was far weaker, i don't think Dawn's size is gonna matter much considering the range of her abilities.

how far away is she, also that doesnt stop sunlight from controlling them

Yes she can adapt, that doesnt mean that she can adapt to everything, TDM will eventually take out more of it's hax like its void manip which will erase her beyond her normal capacity to regen, also said soldiers mean jack all given the ap diff

Then show that it has gotten better and how, because otherwise she has no way to deal with TDM that isnt already resisted or it will regen from

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

When she was fighting another World Creator who also had an infinite number of clones of themselves, she was fighting them with her own infinite army, from her own another dimension in her own universe.

It's literally an infinite army, that gets endlessly replenished, i don't see how all of them get taken out, the fight with the aforementioned World Creator she fought, was ongoing for millions of years. Her RE is stated to be similar to Alice, a tier 6 character who can go from 6-C to 2-C with just reactive evolution, and gained resistances to abilities from people comparable to Eden.

You're arguing that Makina before she became the Machine God, is the same as when she is the Machine God, who creates and controls star sized objects, can't seal something that's the size of an Island.

Like do you think the Star Sized Abyss Tartarus, can't entirely seal something as insignificant in comparison to them, as an Island?

Gods can bless the entire world with happiness, control the fate of everyone in the world, open portals to the whole world, their abilities are greater than the Evil God which affected everyone in the world, but sealing an island, it's too much? Don't agree with that.

 

[deonment]

When she was fighting another World Creator who also had an infinite number of clones of themselves, she was fighting them with her own infinite army, from her own another dimension in her own universe.

It's literally an infinite army, that gets endlessly replenished, i don't see how all of them get taken out, the fight with the aforementioned World Creator she fought, was ongoing for millions of years. Her RE is stated to be similar to Alice, a tier 6 character who can go from 6-C to 2-C with just reactive evolution, and gained resistances to abilities from people comparable to Eden.

You're arguing that Makina before she became the Machine God, is the same as when she is the Machine God, who creates and controls star sized objects, can't seal something that's the size of an Island.

Like do you think the Star Sized Abyss Tartarus, can't entirely seal something as insignificant in comparison to them, as an Island?

Okay then

That wasnt my point, my point was that the army would get affected by said sunlight and turn against eden, also re that good is great and all but that doesnt mean it can stop something that erases you beyond normal non-existence

Aight then she can seal it, this is a mismatch then, since either she seals it while the dawn machine doesnt start with its lethal hax from what i know, or in her earlier keys she gets stomped by it due to the passives

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

What's the range of the sunlight? Makina's infinite army covered an infinite universe, composed of multiple dimensions.

They get created infinitely, so whichever turns against her, just gets replaced by another, rise and repeat, it's never ending. This is really broken.

It does look like a stomp or get stomped match after seeing everything.

 

[deonment]

What's the range of the sunlight? Makina's infinite army covered an infinite universe, composed of multiple dimensions.

They get created infinitely, so whichever turns against her, just gets replaced by another, rise and repeat, it's never ending. This is really broken.

It does look like a stomp or get stomped match after seeing everything.

from what I know it should be able to reach throughout the universe, and possibly reach into the other 3 realms in verse

Yes, but the thing is is that they would never be able to reach TDM because sunlight, and also i just realized something, SBA makes it so that her true form would be within 4KM aka range within the passives

and yeah that is prolly the case

 

[Jackpact]

You could call @EliminatorVenom over since he's one of the supporter and he also made a discussion thread and say that he's collecting feat and stuff in the game so he might know something about the machine.

 

[Jackpact]

But I don't think that it would change anything about the stomp or get stomped situation.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

I mean if SBA made everybody's true form within 4km, that would make type 9 immortality and other such stuff irrelevant, i don't think that's how it works, otherwise Alovenus True Form would be 4km of her Avatar's opponent, which is dumb considering her existence alone is so powerful moving a finger would nuke the universe, and even looking at the universe would do that.

 

[deonment]

I mean if SBA made everybody's true form within 4km, that would make type 9 immortality and other such stuff irrelevant, i don't think that's how it works, otherwise Alovenus True Form would be 4km of her Avatar's opponent, which is dumb considering her existence alone is so powerful moving a finger would nuke the universe, and even looking at the universe would do that.

type 9s dont work like that since the other-self isnt the one being fought and as such are not subject to 4KM, however in this case with the one being fought being the true form they would get subject to sba, think warframe where while the warframes are made subject to 4KM the operator that controls them are out in orbit as they are not the one being fought

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Alovenus true form is controlling the Avatar, she is fighting through said Avatar. You can't stop the avatars, unless you stop the true form.

Makina is fighting through the clones, it's literally no different.

Putting her right next to her target just seems to be ignoring her fighting style to me, the clones can't be killed unless Makina is killed, who can't be killed unless her core is destroyed, which can't be destroyed as long as Makina is alive, and Makina is in an entirely separate dimension than the clones.

Now that i think about it, the clones probably should have type 9 immortality.

 

[deonment]

Alovenus true form is controlling the Avatar, she is fighting through said Avatar.

Makina is fighting through the clones, it's literally no different.

Yes, you are fighting the clones in this case, however what TDM is fighting here is the main body, not an avatar or a clone, that is why they are subject to the 4KM rule since they are fighting the main body and not the thing the lesser body is fighting through or controlling

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Fighting the main body is also fighting the infinitely replenishing clones. I don't think it makes any difference here.

All the clones are Makina, the only way this ever ends is destroying her core, which is kept in the dimension of another universe (are we gonna put her "weakness" literally next to Dawn too?) which Dawn has no knowledge of.

At what point does Dawn just start getting extreme advantages via SBA? Makina is right in front of it despite not being how she normally fight, her core which is normally in a separate dimension, cause walking around with your "weakness" out is dumb, is placed right in front of Dawn. Though is it really a weakness, since to actually destroy her core requires killing her true form, which requires destroying her core....

Makina's RE is still being ignore here too, i don't see why she doesn't develop resistance to the passive. Is it smurf or something? Not to mention her own passive, where Dawn would surrender.

 

[deonment]

Fighting the main body is also fighting the infinitely replenishing clones. I don't think it makes any difference here.

All the clones are Makina, the only way this ever ends is destroying her core, which is kept in the dimension of another universe (are we gonna put her weakness literally next to Dawn too?) which Dawn has no knowledge of.

At what point does Dawn just start getting extreme advantages via SBA? Makina is right in front of it despite not being how she normally fight, her core which is normally in a separate dimension, cause walking around with your weakness out is dumb, is placed right in front of Dawn.

Makina's RE is still being ignore here too, i don't see why she doesn't develop resistance to the passive. Is it smurf or something?

Yes, except within 4KM she would get hit by the passives which are a gg

Yes but she wont be able to do anything because she is too busy getting done in by sunlight to deal with TDM

That is just how sba work

No, but if she develops resistance to it then she is getting erased due to her not obeying the laws of reality=her getting erased due to sunlight overwriting the laws of reality, and till she develops an resistance to law based ee she will just gets looped in which her clones are all getting converted and attack her other clones and her with TDM having the chance to use anything he wants including void manip which she cannot regen from due to it erasing people beyond normal non-existence, removing concepts from where she is to screw her over

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

That's not how SBA works, it specifically mentions "If extreme advantages are generated via this distance to one side, a balanced alternative should be discussed in the thread."

There is nothing balanced about Makina starting next to Dawn with her core right there too despite normally being in another dimension cause it's the one way to kill her, albeit again it's a which came first the chicken or egg situation since to destroy one the other has to to be destroyed, which can't happen until the other is destroyed.

I am not getting why this passive is so special, void manipulation, concept manipulation etc are something Gods have, and Makina would just evolve. She infinitely evolves becoming a version of herself that can win, she is one of the strongest world creators for a reason, If Kuro used those powers against her, or even her plot manipulation, she would just adapt.

 

[deonment]

That's not how SBA works, it specifically mentions "If extreme advantages are generated via this distance to one side, a balanced alternative should be discussed in the thread."

There is nothing balanced about Makina starting next to Dawn with her core right there too despite normally being in another dimension cause it's the one way to kill her, albeit again it's a which came first the chicken or egg situation since to destroy one the other has to to be destroyed, which can't happen until the other is destroyed.

I am not getting why this passive is so special, void manipulation, concept manipulation etc are something Gods have, and Makina would just evolve. She infinitely evolves becoming a version of herself that can win, she is one of the strongest world creators for a reason, If Kuro used those powers against her, or even her plot manipulation, she would just adapt.

Aight then

Because it is literally how stuff in Fallen london works, if you break the laws of reality you get erased and sunlight overwrites both your personal laws and the laws of reality to fit what the dawn machine wants it to be and if you break those laws you get erased, it is why sunlight in verse is lethal to inhabitants of the unterzee, because sunlight=laws of reality and being in the unterzee you basically are prone to breaking said laws due to everything happening there, yes but void manip that makes you so erases you beyond normal non-existence to the point that you become nep2 is something far out of reach for her to adapt or regen from, fair on the concept manip then