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The Operator fights the 18th Letter In the Alphabet
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Are we assuming this is just the Operator or do they have all their equipment which includes the frames?
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Hmm, I don't know.The frames would seem like a positive for the Operator at first but R could easily turn that against them.Let's try it with all equipment and Warframes for now and I'll change it if needed so it isn't a stomp for either
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We'd have to assume that R could actually absorb and benefit from the frame, as the powers aren't inherently theirs.
The way the frames are explained in lore are that they are akin to a magnifying glass to the Operator's light. A glass that channels the Operator's void energy in a specific manner. Without the Operator channeling energy through them they are effectively just meat puppets. Zanuka is made out of Warframe parts and cannot fully mimic powers of a frame.
The only one that deviates from this somewhat is Umbra, because he's completely different in that he's physically conscious and can act on his own.
Also, the Operator can send them in from outside of Greed's range completely, so they won't be able to be effected.
But now that we've covered that, can R counter being turned into data, having their soul explode with a simple thrust, being BFR'd to a different dimension, being petrified, mind controlled, being atomically deconstructed by void energy, etc?
Because that's some things that some Warframes have at their disposal.
EDIT: We can assume he can absorb raw void energy (although I'd like clarification if he can absorb exotic universal energies) , but whether or not this impacts the Operator is unclear because it has a lot of applications to it. Stalker's Dispel has effect on frames, but it doesn't work against the Operator.
The way the frames are explained in lore are that they are akin to a magnifying glass to the Operator's light. A glass that channels the Operator's void energy in a specific manner. Without the Operator channeling energy through them they are effectively just meat puppets. Zanuka is made out of Warframe parts and cannot fully mimic powers of a frame.
The only one that deviates from this somewhat is Umbra, because he's completely different in that he's physically conscious and can act on his own.
Also, the Operator can send them in from outside of Greed's range completely, so they won't be able to be effected.
But now that we've covered that, can R counter being turned into data, having their soul explode with a simple thrust, being BFR'd to a different dimension, being petrified, mind controlled, being atomically deconstructed by void energy, etc?
Because that's some things that some Warframes have at their disposal.
EDIT: We can assume he can absorb raw void energy (although I'd like clarification if he can absorb exotic universal energies) , but whether or not this impacts the Operator is unclear because it has a lot of applications to it. Stalker's Dispel has effect on frames, but it doesn't work against the Operator.
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R should be able to absorb the frames powers and prevent the Operator from using the frames abilities with Greed, he can absorb all types of Chaeryeok from anyone who has it and Chaeryeok is literally power thats given to someone by contract,heritage, blessing, summoning, artificially made etc.He basically absorbed abilities from higher beings who aren't even present, in this instance it would be like stealing a stand from the stand user if the stand was a powerful being/god entirely seperate from the user.
I'm quite knowledgable on Warframe myself and I know that R would be able to absorb the Warframes' natural abilities(and equipment) because it's tied to the physiology of the Warframe rather than the Operator's void energy fueling it.Greed not only absorbs just powers but absorbs part of the physiology of the victim as well,gaining their natural strength and "being"(like eating/absorbing a god will make him a god) effectively making him part warframe, part human, part god.
The Operator could use range to they're advantage, that's possible.But Greed can eat projectiles.
No.Unless he absorbs.
Greed should be able to absorb exotic energies, a dramatically weaker form of Greed was able to absorb the Nine Tail's soul which has enough power to break the seal placed on all humans which even sealed humans who are 4-C.So yea, he should be able to absorb raw void energy either naturally or just by absorbing warframes or the Operator's power
Things to note is that R usually starts off by going into his pocket reality and/or greeding the planet,Has the AP advantage by a large margin (like one-shot territory) and can absorb up to 4-C.
I'm quite knowledgable on Warframe myself and I know that R would be able to absorb the Warframes' natural abilities(and equipment) because it's tied to the physiology of the Warframe rather than the Operator's void energy fueling it.Greed not only absorbs just powers but absorbs part of the physiology of the victim as well,gaining their natural strength and "being"(like eating/absorbing a god will make him a god) effectively making him part warframe, part human, part god.
The Operator could use range to they're advantage, that's possible.But Greed can eat projectiles.
No.Unless he absorbs.
Greed should be able to absorb exotic energies, a dramatically weaker form of Greed was able to absorb the Nine Tail's soul which has enough power to break the seal placed on all humans which even sealed humans who are 4-C.So yea, he should be able to absorb raw void energy either naturally or just by absorbing warframes or the Operator's power
Things to note is that R usually starts off by going into his pocket reality and/or greeding the planet,Has the AP advantage by a large margin (like one-shot territory) and can absorb up to 4-C.
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It's tied to their physiology in only that they act as a lens to a light, it must require the Operator's void energy to fuel or else it's effectively just technocyte he's absorbing.
Greeding the planet takes some time (Not that it impacts the Operator anyway), whereas Operator win conditions are activated through simplistic actions like pointing or thrusting or scanning while invisible, none of which are out of character to start off with.
I just think the Operator has too many options despite OP absorption, they should win 6.5/10
Greeding the planet takes some time (Not that it impacts the Operator anyway), whereas Operator win conditions are activated through simplistic actions like pointing or thrusting or scanning while invisible, none of which are out of character to start off with.
I just think the Operator has too many options despite OP absorption, they should win 6.5/10
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Bishop absorbed the King of Knox's physiology and that gave him the Fundemental Force powers and the ability to use the King's staff and Blade, all of which are only usable if you have the King's body so he should be able to use it.And Warframes were once alive and not controlled by the Void energy or the Operator (as shown with Limbo, Valkyr,Rhino and every other Warframe)and only "controlled" by the cybernetic/infested within them meaning Void energy isn't needed for them to use their abilities, only for them to be properly controlled as tools for war so R can absorb and negate their abilities.
Greeding the planet takes a few seconds at max, the entire continent would be covered within at most a second.The Operator's and the Warframe's range isn't large by themselves, only the Operator's transferance is low multiversal, everything that's used for actual to use for actual combat like abilities and shooting are only extended melee to hundreds of meters at max.
Greeding the planet takes a few seconds at max, the entire continent would be covered within at most a second.The Operator's and the Warframe's range isn't large by themselves, only the Operator's transferance is low multiversal, everything that's used for actual to use for actual combat like abilities and shooting are only extended melee to hundreds of meters at max.
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Except literally all of their abilities come from the void though, it is why they require energy.
Valkyr's story makes no sense because the tortured aspect comes from Gersemi Valkyr which existed after Valkyr Prime whom already had Hysteria and whatnot. Rhino's story exhibits no necessary need for void energy because he didn't use a power and functioned as a ravaging mass of untamed technocyte.
There is no indication that the powers are inherent to the frame and simply not being used as lenses. Why does Stalker have the abilities of multiple frames if this were the case?
Except he was able to monologue a bit before the Greed fully covered the Earth, it took roughly 20 seconds max where it takes less than a second for the Operator to kill.
I'm just not convinced.
Valkyr's story makes no sense because the tortured aspect comes from Gersemi Valkyr which existed after Valkyr Prime whom already had Hysteria and whatnot. Rhino's story exhibits no necessary need for void energy because he didn't use a power and functioned as a ravaging mass of untamed technocyte.
There is no indication that the powers are inherent to the frame and simply not being used as lenses. Why does Stalker have the abilities of multiple frames if this were the case?
Except he was able to monologue a bit before the Greed fully covered the Earth, it took roughly 20 seconds max where it takes less than a second for the Operator to kill.
I'm just not convinced.
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No, they're abilities come from the Warframe's power and the Warframes (when they were originally alive) don't need Void energy to even operate in combat or use abilities, only to be controlled.
"We cultured the Infestation, conceiving of a hybrid. Transformed, but only just. The 'Helminth' was created, born to yield these new warriors, worthy of battle against you, the great and terrible Hunhow."
"...But only just. Their skin blossomed into sword-steel. Their organs, interlinked with untold resilience. Yet their minds were free of the Infested madness. Or so we thought. We set them upon the battlefield, bio-drones under our command."
"The Warframes... all of them... failures. Surprised? They turned on us, just as you did. And so we had no choice but to commit them... to grave. This is all you know, Hunhow, but there is a hidden half. A secret, that lies within a place forbidden to you and your kind. I speak of the Void."
"Distorted by vague horrors, we kept the Zariman survivors within a secret Reservoir. They were the missing half. Transference-linked: the Warframes, the body - and they, the mind. I give you the coordinates and codes to this place, but Do Not underestimate these devils, Hunhow. They did what we could not. We had created monsters that we couldn't--"
"--We had created monsters we couldn't control. We drugged them, tortured them, eviscerated them... we brutalized their minds, but it did not work. Until they came. And it was not their force of will, not their Void devilry, not their alien darkness... it was something else. It was that somehow, from within the derelict-horror, they had learned a way to see inside an ugly broken thing...and take away its pai."
Nothing about the Warframes creation say or imply the powers of the Void are needed for the use of it's abilities, only the controlled infestation and cybernetics were needed for the Warframe to be functional. Void power and more specifically Transference is the only link to Warframes that the Void's energy has besides being used as a source of energy for the Warframes.
Warframes are shown to have a specific ability that is only inherent to them.That's why you have to build a new Warframe for new abilities,why Warframes all have different origins behind their powers, why you can't interchange abilities, why Limbo's origin of his powers is special, why Mirage is special in it's abilities, why require some quest give you Warframes etc.Stalker's unique abilities isn't really a point considering he isn't a tenno and is entirely unique case.
Beings who were comparable/superior to him in speed didn't detect nor react to Greed before it already consumed half the planet so either the talking and monologue part was just another example of "talking is a free action" for dramatic affect, which it most likely was or the acceleration of Greed's planet consumption is just extremely fast.
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"We cultured the Infestation, conceiving of a hybrid. Transformed, but only just. The 'Helminth' was created, born to yield these new warriors, worthy of battle against you, the great and terrible Hunhow."
"...But only just. Their skin blossomed into sword-steel. Their organs, interlinked with untold resilience. Yet their minds were free of the Infested madness. Or so we thought. We set them upon the battlefield, bio-drones under our command."
"The Warframes... all of them... failures. Surprised? They turned on us, just as you did. And so we had no choice but to commit them... to grave. This is all you know, Hunhow, but there is a hidden half. A secret, that lies within a place forbidden to you and your kind. I speak of the Void."
"Distorted by vague horrors, we kept the Zariman survivors within a secret Reservoir. They were the missing half. Transference-linked: the Warframes, the body - and they, the mind. I give you the coordinates and codes to this place, but Do Not underestimate these devils, Hunhow. They did what we could not. We had created monsters that we couldn't--"
"--We had created monsters we couldn't control. We drugged them, tortured them, eviscerated them... we brutalized their minds, but it did not work. Until they came. And it was not their force of will, not their Void devilry, not their alien darkness... it was something else. It was that somehow, from within the derelict-horror, they had learned a way to see inside an ugly broken thing...and take away its pai."
Nothing about the Warframes creation say or imply the powers of the Void are needed for the use of it's abilities, only the controlled infestation and cybernetics were needed for the Warframe to be functional. Void power and more specifically Transference is the only link to Warframes that the Void's energy has besides being used as a source of energy for the Warframes.
Warframes are shown to have a specific ability that is only inherent to them.That's why you have to build a new Warframe for new abilities,why Warframes all have different origins behind their powers, why you can't interchange abilities, why Limbo's origin of his powers is special, why Mirage is special in it's abilities, why require some quest give you Warframes etc.Stalker's unique abilities isn't really a point considering he isn't a tenno and is entirely unique case.
Beings who were comparable/superior to him in speed didn't detect nor react to Greed before it already consumed half the planet so either the talking and monologue part was just another example of "talking is a free action" for dramatic affect, which it most likely was or the acceleration of Greed's planet consumption is just extremely fast.
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Suggesting they had the ability to use powers despite not being connected to the void is ludicrous, it's exactly how their abilities work (otherwise the energy system makes no sense), why do they need void energy to power them if it has no express influence? It's why the frames were made, they are meant to focus the child's power through a surrogate:
"However, this research would then be taken from her after she was executed for trying to protect the children, and used to create a process known as Transference; the children's consciousnesses and powers could be remotely channeled through a surrogate body called a Warframe: a specially-made techno-organic humanoid battle frame designed to enhance and focus the children's powers, using a device known as a Somatic Link."
Except Stalker is a frame though:
"All your dread-long life you've waited for this moment. But you're asking yourself—was I one of these wretched things? You know the answer. You still hate them. You still hate yourself."
More evidence is Stalker's ability to kill a Loki, which could only be achieved by void-touched beings through the Oro they possess. If abilities were inherent to specific frames Stalker would not have Exaclibur, Mag, Nyx, Oberon, and Ash abilities in his kit.
Warframe power ranges are also inconsistent mind you, as Limbo's jump was interplanetary and Inaros' storm was "sky-piercing", vs. 15 or so meters in-game.
"However, this research would then be taken from her after she was executed for trying to protect the children, and used to create a process known as Transference; the children's consciousnesses and powers could be remotely channeled through a surrogate body called a Warframe: a specially-made techno-organic humanoid battle frame designed to enhance and focus the children's powers, using a device known as a Somatic Link."
Except Stalker is a frame though:
"All your dread-long life you've waited for this moment. But you're asking yourself—was I one of these wretched things? You know the answer. You still hate them. You still hate yourself."
More evidence is Stalker's ability to kill a Loki, which could only be achieved by void-touched beings through the Oro they possess. If abilities were inherent to specific frames Stalker would not have Exaclibur, Mag, Nyx, Oberon, and Ash abilities in his kit.
Warframe power ranges are also inconsistent mind you, as Limbo's jump was interplanetary and Inaros' storm was "sky-piercing", vs. 15 or so meters in-game.
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Because they're part robot, part infestation ridden "bio-drones" that were once alive.It's easy to figure out why something that was once alive needs to use void energy as a "stamina".It's an entirely gameplay only thing.The warframes lore was naturally retconned, the quotes from Ballas that I posted came after the quotes you posted.Ballas explicitly states the Warframes were made to by to be mindless soldiers used for battle, they weren't meant to think, only to be controlled via torture.
"--We had created monsters we couldn't control. We drugged them, tortured them, eviscerated them... we brutalized their minds, but it did not work."
Instead of the Warframes being made for the Operators as a "channel" it was retconned to the Operator's being the only ones that can control it due to Transference.
The Stalker also doesn't seem to be controlled by a Operator, has a mind of his own and is just all types of weird.You don't need an oro to kill a Warframe nor do you need to be void-touched, all you need to do is destroy the oro so that doesn't pove anything, just because the Stalker can use other abilities of Warframes doesn't mean we can or the Operator knows how to, unless you want to make a CRT to argue for every Warframe having every Warframe ability.
I know about those ranges but those were few and far in between and doesn't matter here for the most part.
I probably won't be able to respond to you because I'm gonna be gone for a couple weeks so I probably won't be able to keep this or my other threads alive sadly so I will just stop here and let the supporters and all say their piece.
"--We had created monsters we couldn't control. We drugged them, tortured them, eviscerated them... we brutalized their minds, but it did not work."
Instead of the Warframes being made for the Operators as a "channel" it was retconned to the Operator's being the only ones that can control it due to Transference.
The Stalker also doesn't seem to be controlled by a Operator, has a mind of his own and is just all types of weird.You don't need an oro to kill a Warframe nor do you need to be void-touched, all you need to do is destroy the oro so that doesn't pove anything, just because the Stalker can use other abilities of Warframes doesn't mean we can or the Operator knows how to, unless you want to make a CRT to argue for every Warframe having every Warframe ability.
I know about those ranges but those were few and far in between and doesn't matter here for the most part.
I probably won't be able to respond to you because I'm gonna be gone for a couple weeks so I probably won't be able to keep this or my other threads alive sadly so I will just stop here and let the supporters and all say their piece.
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I just don't think DE can completely make up their mind as to what they want the children to represent.
I was never making the implication that all frames should be listed with all of their abilities, that wasn't the point of the argument.
I'll probably do the same.
I was never making the implication that all frames should be listed with all of their abilities, that wasn't the point of the argument.
I'll probably do the same.
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Considering the fact that Greed was able to absorb souls, Borrowed Powers, physical strength, and a type 3 concept, I don't doubt that R can absorb Void energy. Even if he can't use any of the powers the Warframes have, continental to planetary coverage of the world with Greed would stop any, if not all Warframes from attacking him directly.
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So ugh. 1st warframe gets absorbed.
2nd warframe comes in fully invisible and turns him into a block of ice via Glaxion.
3rd warframe comes in should the 2nd fail, and uses Lull to put him to sleep and erase his memory.
4th warframe comes in should the 3rd fail and so on.
The operator takes it. With planetary range, R doesn't really have a way to even reach the operator.
Also since this is "low 6-B" this is with warframes. The operator without warframes is not Low 6-B.
2nd warframe comes in fully invisible and turns him into a block of ice via Glaxion.
3rd warframe comes in should the 2nd fail, and uses Lull to put him to sleep and erase his memory.
4th warframe comes in should the 3rd fail and so on.
The operator takes it. With planetary range, R doesn't really have a way to even reach the operator.
Also since this is "low 6-B" this is with warframes. The operator without warframes is not Low 6-B.
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The Operator and the Warframes are on Earth, SBA.
One reason I didn't want to include the Warframes because I know they have an Oro and R absorbing them would give him the Oro meaning he would have tons of resurrections on top of his current resurrection.He would also gain the immortalities (besides 6 and 9),regen, and all of the Warframes' abilities and stuff so keep that in mind.
One reason I didn't want to include the Warframes because I know they have an Oro and R absorbing them would give him the Oro meaning he would have tons of resurrections on top of his current resurrection.He would also gain the immortalities (besides 6 and 9),regen, and all of the Warframes' abilities and stuff so keep that in mind.
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The Operator has Oro as well, so either or not it's high stakes.
I'd prefer you actually provide a distance for fairness, as people are quick to say he'll use Greed anyway without seeing his opponent despite the Operator's hax being limited to closer distances.
Because, as is, SBA is 4km. A distance the Operator can hardly make use of.
I'd prefer you actually provide a distance for fairness, as people are quick to say he'll use Greed anyway without seeing his opponent despite the Operator's hax being limited to closer distances.
Because, as is, SBA is 4km. A distance the Operator can hardly make use of.
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Changing the range will only make either side stomp.The only methods I can think of to make up for the range advantage is by allowing the Operator to use all Warframes at once or bloodlust and unequalize speed or something like that.
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After much discussion with Abstractions, we have come to the conclusion that this is a stomp for R.This can be closed
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SBA won't make the operator start on earth, if you start with warframes. His last key will make the warframe start within 4km, as he's the opponent, not the operator. His last key is literally the same as fighting Limbo but he's not limited to bringing just limbo. There is no other difference. It's the same as "true selves" and "avatar" keys. If an avatar is in a fight, doesn't mean the true self will be within 4KM as well.
And considering how Limbo can just point at R and end the fight i do not see what can happen here. R has no answer to Limbo's dimensional BFR as he himself cannot travel between dimensions meaning he cannot escape from the rift, put stasis on top of that to prevent both him and greed from taking actions and you have an easy win condition for the operator.
Oro absorbing won't be a problem cus you know, the operator doesn't really care about gaining Oro as he himself can absorb the Oro so even if he does gain the oro (which he won't pretty sure of that), the warframes can just kill him and absorb said oro if needed.
And considering how Limbo can just point at R and end the fight i do not see what can happen here. R has no answer to Limbo's dimensional BFR as he himself cannot travel between dimensions meaning he cannot escape from the rift, put stasis on top of that to prevent both him and greed from taking actions and you have an easy win condition for the operator.
Oro absorbing won't be a problem cus you know, the operator doesn't really care about gaining Oro as he himself can absorb the Oro so even if he does gain the oro (which he won't pretty sure of that), the warframes can just kill him and absorb said oro if needed.
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Bump or stomp?
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