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THE Pizza Tower Thread (Fecal Funny edition)

TheMonkeMan said:
"relating to or derived from living matter."
Cheese comes from cows ( living matter ) so it's organic.
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I'm fairly certain we already discussed the matter of The Vigilante having Inorganic Physiology here. The argument seemed to have ended with the result of us giving him it due to precedent. A character in Mochi form is labeled as Inorganic on this wiki. Since Vigilante is made of cheese, which is also a food item made from organic material, I decided that was a good enough argument.
 
Iridant said:
A character in Mochi form is labeled as Inorganic on this wiki.
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I'm pretty sure Katakuri's element is made by humans or somn, and the creator him self specified that he isn't a natural substance like milk.
Iridant said:
Since Vigilante is made of cheese, which is also a food item made from organic material, I decided that was a good enough argument.
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Association fallacy, one character getting that ability doesn't mean another can, especially when there's a much more solid argument for cheese being organic.
 
TheMonkeMan said:
I'm pretty sure Katakuri's element is made by humans or somn, and the creator him self specified that he isn't a natural substance like milk.
Click to expand...
He transforms into mochi, which is a food made primarily of rice. That is also composed of organic matter, like many foods made by humans.
TheMonkeMan said:
Association fallacy, one character getting that ability doesn't mean another can, especially when there's a much more solid argument for cheese being organic.
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Huh, I guess I need to revisit the Fallacies page.
 
Iridant said:
He transforms into mochi, which is a food made primarily of rice. That is also composed of organic matter, like many foods made by humans.
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It's also made of other stuff though.
Honestly I'm not sure how this is correlated to Vigilante who's literally just living cheese.
 
TheMonkeMan said:
It's also made of other stuff though.
Honestly I'm not sure how this is correlated to Vigilante who's literally just living cheese.
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The original argument by StretchSebe seemed to be that characters made of food items are granted Inorganic Physiology since they aren't made of standard organic matter, but rather processed versions of those. Also, as beings made of food, they lack many components organic organisms tend to have, like blood or bones.
 
Iridant said:
The original argument by StretchSebe seemed to be that characters made of food items are granted Inorganic Physiology since they aren't made of standard organic matter, but rather processed versions of those. Also, as beings made of food, they lack many components organic organisms tend to have, like blood or bones.
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I suppose I'm arguing semantics then.
 
TheMonkeMan said:
I suppose I'm arguing semantics then.
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It's hard not to argue semantics about that topic. People have wanted the wording changed on Inorganic Physiology for years. Here's an example. This topic can get more confusing too. For the Katakuri example, he is granted both Inorganic Physiology and Organic Manipulation. Both are granted due to his Mochi Mochi Devil Fruit. This topic is confusing and I don't really know a good answer for this argument.
 
Iridant said:
The original argument by StretchSebe seemed to be that characters made of food items are granted Inorganic Physiology since they aren't made of standard organic matter, but rather processed versions of those. Also, as beings made of food, they lack many components organic organisms tend to have, like blood or bones.
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Yep. This is what I meant.

I only gave a couple examples, but I could give another popular character: Princess Bubblegum has Type 1 too.

It is true that nearly all food has 'organic' origin, but it seems that the 'inorganic' in Inorganic Physiology Type 1 refers to characters that can either use physiology they could not use organically (Katakuri, a human who can use mochi physiology), or refers to animate characters with physiology that would not meet standard characteristics of life (The Kool-Aid Man, a 'man' made of glass for holding specific juice. How he is alive, and how it works is not for me to answer lol).

Brain still in paper writing mode, but am easing back into being productive here and stuff. We're discussing CRT stuff in another thread. We've made a lot of progress for both The Vigilante, and Pillar John.
 
So when's the Gustavo & Brick profile coming?
Where does he scale? What are his abilities?
I know all of the answers to these questions ( He scales to Peppino via having basically the same feats, being able to stun Vigilante while Peppino's physicals couldn't really do that, and being a god at parrying even intangible things, just like Peppino ) but I want to hear how others feel.
 
TheMonkeMan said:
So when's the Gustavo & Brick profile coming?
Where does he scale? What are his abilities?
I know all of the answers to these questions ( He scales to Peppino via having basically the same feats, being able to stun Vigilante while Peppino's physicals couldn't really do that, and being a god at parrying even intangible things, just like Peppino ) but I want to hear how others feel.
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The profile would probably just be Gustavo or Gustavo (Pizza Tower), as Gustavo is the one in control. He would have many of the abilities possessed by Peppino, due to sharing parts of his moveset. However, he should also have some extra abilities since his moveset is different in some ways. For example, he might get Surface Scaling due to sticking to walls with Brick. I'm not sure if that counts though, since he can't continuously move up the wall. Air Manipulation via Rat Balloon is another ability he could be given.
 
Iridant said:
The profile would probably just be Gustavo or Gustavo (Pizza Tower), as Gustavo is the one in control. He would have many of the abilities possessed by Peppino, due to sharing parts of his moveset. However, he should also have some extra abilities since his moveset is different in some ways. For example, he might get Surface Scaling due to sticking to walls with Brick. I'm not sure if that counts though, since he can't continuously move up the wall. Air Manipulation via Rat Balloon is another ability he could be given.
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Yeah, but Brick is still a considerable component, and is at least equal to him due to getting in multiple scraps and always coming out in a stalemate with both being bruised.
 
Gustavo and Brick are pretty much inseperable, so I'm against naming the profile only after him and not Brick.
As for where would the two scale, it's weird. Peppino can't kill an enemy if he jumps on them, but when Gustavo or Brick do it, they die instantly. Then there's also the fact that Gustavo could take multiple beatings from an enraged Peppino, and that Brick seems to be more similar to the dumb rats scattered throughout the levels instead of the rats we see in Fastfood Saloon and Pizzaface's fight.
 
Shmooply said:
Peppino can't kill an enemy if he jumps on them, but when Gustavo or Brick do it, they die instantly.
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..Since when?
Oh, nvm. I thought you meant Gus and Brick die instantly. I'm stupid.
Shmooply said:
Then there's also the fact that Gustavo could take multiple beatings from an enraged Peppino,
Click to expand...
When is this?
Shmooply said:
and that Brick seems to be more similar to the dumb rats scattered throughout the levels instead of the rats we see in Fastfood Saloon and Pizzaface's fight.
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Brick is clearly a special star, considering he was fighting Gus in the lobby for a while and is pretty much his equal.
He can also just do more than the other rats.
Also the stupid rats basically only have durability feats due to scaling above Peppino's normal AP but below his transformations.
 
Ah, right, he even kicks him there.
Good point.
Also where would the double jump be listed in terms of abilities?
 
Shmooply said:
Gustavo and Brick are pretty much inseperable, so I'm against naming the profile only after him and not Brick.
As for where would the two scale, it's weird. Peppino can't kill an enemy if he jumps on them, but when Gustavo or Brick do it, they die instantly. Then there's also the fact that Gustavo could take multiple beatings from an enraged Peppino, and that Brick seems to be more similar to the dumb rats scattered throughout the levels instead of the rats we see in Fastfood Saloon and Pizzaface's fight.
Click to expand...
I agree with keeping Gustavo and Brick together, and with the durability scaling to Peppino both due to similarities in gameplay and because Gustavo consistently provided himself to be kicked to stun the bosses in phase 3 while Peppino was enraged. Peppino using Gustavo for attacks reminded me of how some Bros attacks in Mario and Luigi: Superstar Saga are just one mario brother straight up using the other as a weapon (especially with one like knockback bros).
 
TheMonkeMan said:
So when's the Gustavo & Brick profile coming?
Where does he scale? What are his abilities?
I know all of the answers to these questions ( He scales to Peppino via having basically the same feats, being able to stun Vigilante while Peppino's physicals couldn't really do that, and being a god at parrying even intangible things, just like Peppino ) but I want to hear how others feel.
Click to expand...
To add to this, I might record a Gnome Forest P rank specifically showing a lot of parries and what not, just so we can get some clear cut feats on video.
 
Iridant said:
The Vigilante
Should have Superhuman Physical Characteristics.
Could have Hammerspace/Dimensional Storage due to pulling items out of nowhere and also seemingly storing them.

Pillar John
Should be 8-C and not High 8-C since we cannot assume a higher tier due to one-shotting. The Powerscaling page on the wiki even mentions this.
Click to expand...
I once again have additions to this. I might have to fight The Vigilante again to try and see if there are other things I missed. Anyways, The Vigilante could get Darkness Manipulation for covering his arena in darkness, and possibly Enhanced Senses for being unaffected by the dark background. I'm iffy on Enhanced Senses since one can still clearly make out shapes in his darkness so Vigilante would just need to shoot in the direction of the Peppino-shaped shadow.
 
I was browsing the pages that exist and found that a Pizza Tower verse page exists now. I also found two more calculations for Pizza Tower. I'm not sure if we can directly use there for anything, especially since neither has been accepted, but we should probably discuss them to some extent. The one about Peppino's travel speed compares the speed of Mach 2 to Mach 3, so we could potentially use that ratio to get a calc for Peppino's upper speed.

EDIT: I have now also found another of Strym's calcs.

EDIT 2: I have realized I commented on someone's post suggesting to look at this thread...when that person IS in this thread. Sorry, Adam.
 
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Iridant said:
I was browsing the pages that exist and found that a Pizza Tower verse page exists now. I also found two more calculations for Pizza Tower. I'm not sure if we can directly use there for anything, especially since neither has been accepted, but we should probably discuss them to some extent. The one about Peppino's travel speed compares the speed of Mach 2 to Mach 3, so we could potentially use that ratio to get a calc for Peppino's upper speed.
Click to expand...
The massively hypersonic travel speed seems inconsistent given Peppino's run is explicitly stated to be, well, Mach 1-3. Also given the prior accepted calc on his travel speed. Then again, it isn't that hard to run underneath as they're charging and not get hit by the lightning. Regardless, massively hypersonic walk speed is definitely way too much lmao.

I think the tower collapse calc on the other calc blog might be close to the actual ap needed to destroy it though. Given how often it is seen being off in the distance/background, I'm unsure how we would go about determining an accurate, acceptable size. The tower at least seems much larger than a normal tower.
Iridant said:
EDIT: I have now also found another of Strym's calcs.
Click to expand...
I think we could at least use this for reaction speed though! I find it hard to view this as inconsistent or anomalous. It's something Peppino can do consistently. Glad we got an accepted calc for the lightning clouds finally (at least if what Ant said was applicable)
 
StretchSebe said:
The massively hypersonic travel speed seems inconsistent given Peppino's run is explicitly stated to be, well, Mach 1-3. Also given the prior accepted calc on his travel speed. Then again, it isn't that hard to run underneath as they're charging and not get hit by the lightning. Regardless, massively hypersonic walk speed is definitely way too much lmao.

I think we could at least use this for reaction speed though! I find it hard to view this as inconsistent or anomalous. It's something Peppino can do consistently. Glad we got an accepted calc for the lightning clouds finally (at least if what Ant said was applicable)
Click to expand...
The Mach Run isn't actually stated be Mach 1-3, it's just called the "Mach Run", so I could say that's a Nominal Fallacy
We also have MHS+ Guns in Pizza Tower since Peppino uses one against Vigi, which would scale to his combat speed, so don't think the prior calc would contradict mine

I'm not the biggest fan of MHS+ Pizza Tower, but if we're gonna use it, we can't really limit it to parry speed
Afterall, if we do so, Peppino's running speed would be akin to a snail against the bosses, which is obviously not the case
Fake Peppino even uses the Mach Run in an attempt to tag Peppino, so yeah
 
Adem_Warlock69 said:
The Mach Run isn't actually stated be Mach 1-3, it's just called the "Mach Run", so I could say that's a Nominal Fallacy
Click to expand...
True. I hadn't meant to be fallacious, and I'm not staunchly against him being faster than he currently is accepted to be. It just seemed like with the accepted calc, Peppino being called 'the supersonic italian middle-aged man!' on the Steam page, and the Mach Run itself going from stages 1-3 (which could just be describing stages of his run, though the calc and steam statement made it seem to be describing his speed) that supersonic level of speed seemed most fitting.

On the Steam thing, we could interpret the statement as him simply being 'faster than sound' in general rather than being specifically supersonic level of speed. Still, it's quite a leap in speed for him to be going from Mach 1.1-3 to Mach 1370.236-2603.448.
Adem_Warlock69 said:
We also have MHS+ Guns in Pizza Tower since Peppino uses one against Vigi, which would scale to his combat speed, so don't think the prior calc would contradict mine
I'm not the biggest fan of MHS+ Pizza Tower, but if we're gonna use it, we can't really limit it to parry speed
Afterall, if we do so, Peppino's running speed would be akin to a snail against the bosses, which is obviously not the case
Fake Peppino even uses the Mach Run in an attempt to tag Peppino, so yeah
Click to expand...
As far as I was aware, the bosses and guns were at least supersonic too. Were there new stuff people found that made them MHS?
 
Adem_Warlock69 said:
Here's the CRT that's currently discussing it
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Ah, ok. Did a quick run through, and having the context helped me understand the calcs and reasoning better. If it can be agreed upon and accepted, I'm totally fine with the speed change. I only had reservations because of how much of a jump it was, and because I hadn't known much about the matter beyond what has already been found and calculated previously.
Iridant said:
I once again have additions to this. I might have to fight The Vigilante again to try and see if there are other things I missed. Anyways, The Vigilante could get Darkness Manipulation for covering his arena in darkness, and possibly Enhanced Senses for being unaffected by the dark background. I'm iffy on Enhanced Senses since one can still clearly make out shapes in his darkness so Vigilante would just need to shoot in the direction of the Peppino-shaped shadow.
Click to expand...
Also yeah, we should finish up The Vigi and Pillar John CRT so other CRT threads could be made and worked on if there is a limit to how many CRT threads are allowed
 
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