Tohru is planetary

[YeahhBoyee]

Ok so i'll make this as short as i can. Tohru is currently at 6-C. Shes several tiers below what she should be in literally every category and here are the panels proving it. Im going to prove some panels that have her at planetary as a low-ball and for the sake of just getting the profiles fixed wont go into less stable feats/speculation/scaling etc just panels on panels proving Tohru is 5-B.

Attack Potency: Currently at Island level.

What it should be: Planetary.​

Here is Tohru stating she can destroy the planet in literally the first chapter. She refers to earth as "world" because she comes from a different world that isn't connected to our reality. Telne states that a faction called "Dragon slayers" would destroy the earth if they fought as colleteral damage. Here is Tohru no-diffing them. Here is Tohru no-diffing their leader. Edit: Ive been told God still needs in-verse feats to be scaled so disregard this next part. She's also fought god, i don't mean a metaphorical god like a God Level threat in One Punch Man, its the real Christian god that Tohru fought and survived hits from. Dragon Maid lore is kind of complicated but the basics is that the gods humans worship on earth actually exist in Tohru's reality and have taken over half the dragons and are making them go to war against the other half so that by itself catapults Tohru way above Island level.

Lifting strength/striking strength etc. should also be upgraded ofc, but im trying to make this post as short as possible so wont go into it too much. The Profile does mention Tohru fought Kanna Kamui, who has a mountain-sized dragon form so she must have a Class M lifting strength but doesn't mention she also survived fighting this thing and actually beat Lucoa in arm-wrestling.

Durability: Currently at Island level.

What it should be: Planetary.​

The lowest possible low-ball based on Tohru soloing the Dragon Slayer faction is Planetary. But if you just want to see some immediate feats - here is Tohru taking a reality warping hit that split an ocean and the clouds and here is Tohru surviving a hit from god.

Range: Currently at Several dozen kilometers.

What it should be: Interdimensional.​

This is the most confusing thing to me because the amount of panels showing off Tohrus range is colossal. Here is Tohru jumping to space in like 1 second. Here is Tohru magically extending a phones Wifi to reach into a different world. Here is Tohru making a portal to another world which she makes every other chapter, here is Tohru sending Elma to a different continent. Here is Tohru sending clones into outer space. Here is Tohru breaking into a dream...

Speed: Currently at Massively Hypersonic+

What it should be: Minimum FTL, hard to determine upper bound.​

Here is Fafnir, who she spars with for training, saying anything lower than FTL is slow to him. Despite being completely outmatched she also fought and landed hits on Lucoa who has complete control over time (view bottom of post for more on that) and can fly over the globe in an instant. However she is not equal to Lucoa and its unknown how much Lucoa relies on time control during fights. But anyway Tohru's relative to Fafnir and can spar with him, so shes at least FTL. Worth mentioning also that Kanna produces real lightning (confirmed in a recent chapter, Chapter 134) which should move at the speed of lightning and Tohru can very easily dodge Kannas attacks even when holding back and Kanna is pretty much considered fodder/non-combatant in the series.

The reason i said its hard to determine the upper bound of Tohrus speed is because the top tiers of the verse (Lucoa/God/Telne) are all reality warpers with some way of bypassing attack time entirely via either time manipulation, reality manipulation or being god and Tohru, while not being equal to any of them has fought and survived against all of them. Also, Tohru is constantly getting stronger, her current goal is the strongest entity in the entire verse (her mother, introduced in Chapter 127) and Tohru grows at an astronomical rate, a few months ago she was relative to Ilulu and she's currently undergoing some form of transformation which involves her tail going red. That's why i think for now we can just put Tohru at FTL and figure out her actual speed later.

Stamina: Currently at Superhuman

What it should be: Infinite.​

I'll make this short, and resist going on a tangent about Dragon Maid power system. Tohru is able to generate an infinite amount of Mana just by existing, which is all that Dragons need to survive, assuming they aren't grievously wounded. Tohru is stated to not need sleep/sustenance and she's pretty much immortal removing all further reason why she should ever run out of stamina. As further proof Fafnir fought for thousands of years, and he doesn't even have Tohrus body which infinitely regenerates Mana.

NOTE: Its still possible for Tohru to become exhausted, seen when she sparred with Elma, however that is likely due to her taking Elma's attacks and doesn't contradict the established fact that Tohru generates an inexhaustible pool of energy - not only enough for herself but even enough for dragons to never run out of Mana just by being close to Tohru.

---

Conclusion: So basically Tohru is a lot stronger than the wiki gives her credit for. I have to go to sleep so im not about to go into the things missing from her hax attributes like being able to clone objects (not just herself), being able to absorb magic etc. because to its credit a lot of things there are listed. Not sure how interdimensional barriers are listed and her range is still at "several dozen kilometers" but oh well. I'll respond to any replies in the morning, good night

PS: Also as a side-note, since this post is just about getting Tohrus profile fixed for a start. Afterwards Lucoa's profile also needs to be updated. She is a goddess with complete dominion over time and even reality itself. She can scream across 3000 realities, go forwards in time, stop time, go backwards in time, fly across half the globe instantly, erase peoples memories and return a completely destroyed area back to normal, enter a videogame, use the Kamehameha from DBZ (no i am not joking), self-destruct her body on command without actually taking damage, turn a rabbit into a moon, i had to stop myself from screenshotting more feats. tl;dr she can do anything. The only reason she doesn't solve every problem that comes up in the series is because she's part of a "Spectator" faction and doesn't involve herself directly in conflicts. Just to be clear this is a self-imposed restriction, not some vow or curse she's under or anything. If she really wanted to, Lucoa could delete the god that Tohru failed to kill from existence, or time travel forward to the end of the series, or become a DBZ character. Lucoa is currently sitting at 6-C (Island level) on the wiki.

Summary: Pretty much the entire Dragon Maid verse needs a MASSIVE upgrade.

Edit 1: fixing some links and typos

Edit 2: someone told me about this thread more feats/statements, worth reading as well

Edit 3: Editing the part about Tohru fighting god since people said he cant be scaled off religion without in-verse feats

 

[Passersby]

oh hello there, been a long time since i saw you my guy, hope you've been fine

Here is Tohru stating she can destroy the planet in literally the first chapter. She refers to earth as "world" because she comes from a different world that isn't connected to our reality.

destroy is a broad term really, that means she can destroy civilization humanity all races, and even if she means the planet, she can either do it gradually over time (nothing really indicates she can one shot the planet) or via an attack that causes a chain reaction in the planet to break it

basically, you kinda feats, that can be at best a support statement

. Telne states that a faction called "Dragon slayers" would destroy the earth if they fought as colleteral damage. Here is Tohru no-diffing them. Here is Tohru no-diffing their leader.

...found no such statement, and even then, we need clarification if that means they will literally destroy the entire planet or just whatever is in it

all comes back to the fact that you need feats, these statements can only really be used to support a feat and not straight up to determine a tier

She's also fought god, i don't mean a metaphorical god like a God Level threat in One Punch Man, its the real Christian god that Tohru fought and survived hits from. Dragon Maid lore is kind of complicated but the basics is that the gods humans worship on earth actually exist in Tohru's reality and have taken over half the dragons and are making them go to war against the other half so that by itself catapults Tohru way above Island level.

....does god have any feats?

does he scale above certain characters who preformed certain feats?

if neither then he is featless and there really isn't much you can say about him, can't really scale anyone to him either

The lowest possible low-ball based on Tohru soloing the Dragon Slayer faction is Planetary. But if you just want to see some immediate feats - here is Tohru taking a reality warping hit that split an ocean and the clouds

...to which extent did it split the ocean?

that doesn't even seem like a country level attack let alone a 5B one

and we have no idea what actually happened in the fight for god, the events show nothing other than her having to fight, having a sword stabbed into her, then being alone and crying

what happened in between we really have no idea

Here is Fafnir, who she spars with for training, saying anything lower than FTL is slow to him.

this seems straighforward

Despite being completely outmatched she also fought and landed hits on Lucoa who has complete control over time (view bottom of post for on that) and can fly over the globe in an instant.

...that can really just mean they flew over half the globe in the time it took for dusk to arrive, and the little guy just said it was dusk just a while ago because time just flew by too fast for him while he was trying not to fall

if matter of fact, the sequence of how it was written supports my view

how?! it was dusk just a while ago? -> we flew over half the globe, you know?!

that just looks like he didn't register how much time had passed and she informs him that they actually flew quite a long distance

nothing suggests time manipulation nor that she can fly over half the globe in an instant here really

if there is more concrete time manip feats, you should probably use them instead

nd Tohru can very easily dodge Kannas attacks even when holding back and Kanna is pretty much considered fodder/non-combatant in the series.

if there is something about her being able to output attacks at the speed os lightning, please link it


even if that's the case, she didn't dodge the attack, she re directed it and from quite a bit of distance 2, and even then she is stated to be MHS+ (at least mach 1000) so that's well within her range of capabilities with such speed rating

Its still possible for Tohru to become exhausted,

...yeah, kinda iffy on the infinite stamina thing with that, i don't know much about the rules so that may count as infinite stamina

but anyways i said my peice i guess

 

[Fezzih_007]

I was about to comment, but Passerby said all my troughts on this.

 

[The_Yellow_Topaz]

Here is Tohru stating she can destroy the planet in literally the first chapter. She refers to earth as "world" because she comes from a different world that isn't connected to our reality.

There is no evidence she means the celestial body, but it's much more likely she is referring to life wiping destruction. Furthermore, a claim like that isn't evidence for any tier beyond Tier 6, an Island level character could easily bring the end of the world given enough time.

There is also no evidence that she'd do that in one blow, this is a major assumption.

Telne states that a faction called "Dragon slayers" would destroy the earth if they fought as colleteral damage. Here is Tohru no-diffing them. Here is Tohru no-diffing their leader.

Literally the same problem as above, it's not the celestial body being blown up beyond it's gravitational pull, which is what Planet level is, it's destroying all the land, which is multi-continental if done in one move, but that's also not the case given it's colleteral damage of an entire war.

The lowest possible low-ball based on Tohru soloing the Dragon Slayer faction is Planetary. But if you just want to see some immediate feats - here is Tohru taking a reality warping hit that split an ocean and the clouds and here is Tohru surviving a hit from god.

None of these feats are planetary. Simplying being a God isn't enough to classify for a tier.

Here is Tohru jumping to space in like 1 second.

That is not range. She is crossing a distance with her physical body. You have average hand-to-hand range, if you run 100 meters with that punch you don't have 100m range.

Here is Tohru magically extending a phones Wifi to reach into a different world. Here is Tohru making a portal to another world which she makes every other chapter, here is Tohru sending Elma to a different continent. Here is Tohru sending clones into outer space. Here is Tohru breaking into a dream...

Sure, but most isn't combat applicable.

Here is Fafnir, who she spars with for training, saying anything lower than FTL is slow to him.

A self-proclaimed statement about a self-absorbed and arrogant character isn't hard evidence.

Lucoa who has complete control over time (view bottom of post for more on that) and can fly over the globe in an instant.

This is not a feat of speed, and control over time means nothing if you don't use it in battle. Flying over the globe in an instant is not FTL..

Worth mentioning also that Kanna produces real lightning (confirmed in a recent chapter, Chapter 134) which should move at the speed of lightning and Tohru can very easily dodge Kannas attacks even when holding back and Kanna is pretty much considered fodder/non-combatant in the series.

Producing real lightning is not equal to every attacking Kanna uses being lightning speed.

Lightning also is hundreds of times slower than light.

make this short, and resist going on a tangent about Dragon Maid power system. Tohru is able to generate an infinite amount of Mana just by existing, which is all that Dragons need to survive, assuming they aren't grievously wounded.

Infinitely generating something isn't lacking an upper limit of Mana. That's infinite mana regeneration, not storage.

 

[The_Yellow_Topaz]

this seems straighforward

We don't take statements such as Fafnir's as hard evidence without supporting feats. The verse has MHS+ feats at best, so this statement would be an outlier, or just a joke.

 

[Magicomethkuon]

Will go over a few things I see wrong with the OP at a glance, to explain my disagreement.

Current statistics already have this covered. Give it some time and Tohru could end the world to all mankind and civilization. We see characters talk about ending the world all over the place, it seldom means that they can blow up the earth. Much less instantly with a single blow. Quotes alone aren't grounds to upgrade anyone of any cast much higher than their best feats. Water splitting attack wasn't planet level at all.

Finally, it does not matter which deity a fictional god of the same name took inspiration from. They can only be as strong as the power demonstrated within their franchise. Could turn out to be stronger or weaker than their inspiration, it all depends on what those are usually weaker.

 

[Passersby]

We don't take statements such as Fafnir's as hard evidence without supporting feats. The verse has MHS+ feats at best, so this statement would be an outlier, or just a joke.

Ah, I see, thanks for the clarification

 

[YeahhBoyee]

...found no such statement, and even then, we need clarification if that means they will literally destroy the entire planet or just whatever is in it

all comes back to the fact that you need feats, these statements can only really be used to support a feat and not straight up to determine a tier

i linked it though...here.

....does god have any feats?

does he scale above certain characters who preformed certain feats?

if neither then he is featless and there really isn't much you can say about him, can't really scale anyone to him either

i mean, according to Christian lore creating all of existence in 7 days? Pretty much anything that is attributed to a Christian god? But like i said i have no idea how you could scale a god i just know he isn't island level lol

 

[YeahhBoyee]

There is no evidence she means the celestial body, but it's much more likely she is referring to life wiping destruction. Furthermore, a claim like that isn't evidence for any tier beyond Tier 6, an Island level character could easily bring the end of the world given enough time.

There is also no evidence that she'd do that in one blow, this is a major assumption.

First point is fair but i am lost how island characters can end the world? Going through the list of 6-C characters that just seemed unlikely. "There is also no evidence that she'd do that in one blow, this is a major assumption." There is definitely a misunderstanding here, i am not stating Tohru can and would immediately blow up the planet with one finger like Frieza. If thats the qualification needed to be planetary here, then thats pretty insanely high because at that point you could also easily blow up a star or multiple planets, correct? I can only assume since this is a comedy series at heart so we dont exactly have an example of someone deleting a planet. But if it took Tohru a day, does that mean Tohru wouldnt be planetary because she didnt do it in 2 minutes?

Literally the same problem as above, it's not the celestial body being blown up beyond it's gravitational pull, which is what Planet level is, it's destroying all the land, which is multi-continental if done in one move, but that's also not the case given it's colleteral damage of an entire war.

As mentioned, did not know you have to be able to destroy multiple continents in one move to be that tier, but fair point on the time argument. However it was not a drawn-out-war that was referred to but just the idea of fighting with them. Wouldnt take a lot of time for the collateral damage to happen. Anyways glad we are discussing multi-continental now that sounds a lot closer than Island level the gif i linked was Tohru and Elma vaporizing 3 islands in one move.

None of these feats are planetary. Simplying being a God isn't enough to classify for a tier.

God doesnt get the feats of creating all of existence, surviving the big bang etc.? As mentioned its an actual non-metaphorical god and the gods worshipped in religion actually exist in Tohrus world meaning they have actually done all these things that are attributed to them through religion. Im not sure which tier that would end up being either, i just know its not Island level.

That is not range. She is crossing a distance with her physical body. You have average hand-to-hand range, if you run 100 meters with that punch you don't have 100m range.

ok sure but i linked about a dozen different examples

Sure, but most isn't combat applicable.

i dont see how not but ok lets say it isnt, how about this beam.

A self-proclaimed statement about a self-absorbed and arrogant character isn't hard evidence.

huh? i was under the impression statements were fine as evidence since ive seen them used here many times.

This is not a feat of speed, and control over time means nothing if you don't use it in battle. Flying over the globe in an instant is not FTL..

cool it with the triple dots, i know its not FTL, just putting some speed feats out there since its a comedy series with very little focus on combat. as for control over time, i literally mentioned that we dont know if lucoa used it against tohru, idk why you repeated it as if ive ever claimed anything different.

Producing real lightning is not equal to every attacking Kanna uses being lightning speed.

Lightning also is hundreds of times slower than light.

i have to heavily disagree here, a recent chapter went into how kanna's entire body is producing lightning that matches all of the known physical properties of lightning including polarity of positive and negative charges. and these arent physical attacks these are lightning balls that kanna throws out made from her own body which as discussed mimics all properties of lightning, so i dont see how its not speed of lightning.

"Lightning also is hundreds of times slower than light." depends entirely on how much resistance lightning meets. lightning striking in air or moving through conductive material im pretty sure hits 100000km/s which is 1/3rd the speed of light.

Infinitely generating something isn't lacking an upper limit of Mana. That's infinite mana regeneration, not storage.

Im aware im not arguing she has infinite Mana, just can never run out. A good example is how the Androids from DBZ have infinite energy, that doesnt mean they have infinite Ki (in fact im pretty sure they dont even use Ki). Its just showing she has an inexhaustible pool of energy. Like i said, im not sure what the standards are for having infinite stamina so that was the category i wasnt sure about.

Anyway thanks for going over the post, i feel like you slightly misunderstood my goal here. Im not trying to claim Tohru is necessarily the most OP character to ever exist im just showcasing how much above 6-B she is. The biggest disagreement ive got to have is the fact that this statement here doesnt show theyre planetary - its very clearly stated the earth will be destroyed, not humanity wiped out or anything of the sort and given that this is a verse in which dragons can fight gods it doesnt seem fair to dismiss it as outlier. "but it hasnt happened" yeah ofc this isnt DBZ no sane author will make the dragon blow earth up so the statements are about as close to it happening as it will ever get i feel. anyways thats how feel about it thanks for reading.

 

[YeahhBoyee]

ive been well thanks for asking. i mixed your replies up with someone elses so let me reply to part 2 of your arguments.

...to which extent did it split the ocean?
that doesn't even seem like a country level attack let alone a 5B one
and we have no idea what actually happened in the fight for god, the events show nothing other than her having to fight, having a sword stabbed into her, then being alone and crying
what happened in between we really have no idea

i havent calced the attack, but if i understand telnes powers correctly she can attack anything in her sight ignoring perspective which is how the clouds were split. so if telne were to look at the moon and then crush it with two fingers it would just pop. that being said how powerful her attacks are is not something we can determine, all we know is that its some form of reality altering attack that she hasnt explained the mechanics behind yet. i guess we have to wait for the anime because atm we only have that one panel lol.

agreed with that just wanted to show her surviving a hit from god.

this seems sraighforward

yep

...that can really just mean they flew over half the globe in the time it took for dusk to arrive, and the little guy just said it was dusk just a while ago because time just flew by too fast for him while he was trying not to fall
if matter of fact, the sequence of how it was written supports my view
how?! it was dusk just a while ago? -> we flew over half the globe, you know?!
that just looks like he didn't register how much time had passed and she informs him that they actually flew quite a long distance
nothing suggests time manipulation nor that she can fly over half the globe in an instant here really
if there is more concrete time manip feats, you should probably use them instead

oh there was a misunderstanding here because that was just a random speed feat i found. i was not meaning to say it was FTL or time manip, just wanted to throw that in there. as for Lucoa manipulating time i mean here you go friend. not all of it is time manip i just linked you something i already uploaded before.

if there is something about her being able to output attacks at the speed of lightning please link it

link.

"she redirected it" true, i just wanted to point out kanna who is considered fodder/non-combatant in the series can produce lightning speed attacks.

...yeah, kinda iffy on the infinite stamina thing with that, i don't know much about the rules so that may count as infinite stamina

same

thanks for reading the post mate.

 

[YeahhBoyee]

We don't take statements such as Fafnir's as hard evidence without supporting feats. The verse has MHS+ feats at best, so this statement would be an outlier, or just a joke.

fair enough ig. although there is 0% chance hes joking (for character reasons, its hard to say fafnir even knows what a joke is) it may still be decided to be an outlier depending on how the rules here work, which im not familiar with

 

[YeahhBoyee]

Will go over a few things I see wrong with the OP at a glance, to explain my disagreement.

Current statistics already have this covered. Give it some time and Tohru could end the world to all mankind and civilization. We see characters talk about ending the world all over the place, it seldom means that they can blow up the earth. Much less instantly with a single blow. Quotes alone aren't grounds to upgrade anyone of any cast much higher than their best feats. Water splitting attack wasn't planet level at all.

Finally, it does not matter which deity a fictional god of the same name took inspiration from. They can only be as strong as the power demonstrated within their franchise. Could turn out to be stronger or weaker than their inspiration, it all depends on what those are usually weaker.

First point yeah fair enough. Its impossible to know if Tohru means she could end mankind in a week or blow the earth up in a minute. Im not about to argue we should not low-ball her as much as we can until she actually does something that lands her in that tier, but even the least impressive interpretation of that to me seems to be STILL above 6-C because what island level character can just casually end the world.

"Quotes alone aren't grounds to upgrade anyone of any cast much higher than their best feats."

Well that just seems untrue to me. Lore and statements by themselves can catapult a character into their tier without any actual feats anywhere near that tier. First guy i thought of was Truth from FMA. Looked on the profile and yep hes 2-C. Don't remember Truth ever destroying a universe or anything even remotely close. Could probably find 100 other examples given enough time.

"Water splitting attack wasn't planet level at all." agreed with you there we dont have any planet level feats yet to support the statements just showing the best we got atm.

Finally, it does not matter which deity a fictional god of the same name took inspiration from. They can only be as strong as the power demonstrated within their franchise. Could turn out to be stronger or weaker than their inspiration, it all depends on what those are usually weaker.

Alright fair enough. We can just wait for feats theres a tournament arc coming up

Im interested though having read through my post in which tier would you place Tohru?

 

[Stefano4444]

Speed and Range looks fine, assuming that the charactter Fafnir is not someone that tend to exaggerate, so at the very worst we can give FTL as possibly.

Disagree about Stamina as its only state that Tohru's body can constantly generate mana, but this never implied that she had infinite energy at her disposal at once, i think she should remain as Superhuman.

I'm not sure about AP/Dura as none of the statements do say that the characters can literally destroy Earth, still in this CRT it was bring some evidence about Elma be capable to destroy Japan and that a fight between her and Fafnir would cause 1/4 of Earth, going on this we could still upgrade the characters at 6-B, possibly higher.

 

[YeahhBoyee]

Speed and Range looks fine, assuming that the charactter Fafnir is not someone that tend to exaggerate, so at the very worst we can give FTL as possibly.

Disagree about Stamina as its only state that Tohru's body can constantly generate mana, but this never implied that she had infinite energy at her disposal at once, i think she should remain as Superhuman.

I'm not sure about AP/Dura as none of the statements do say that the characters can literally destroy Earth, still in this CRT it was bring some evidence about Elma be capable to destroy Japan and that a fight between her and Fafnir would cause 1/4 of Earth, going on this we could still upgrade the characters at 6-B, possibly higher.

agreed

yeah its not definitive for sure. i wasnt sure either

sounds good. no planetary scaling until feats is fine, but tohru being 6-c is a joke ngl. i linked the thread in my op thanks for showing me

 

[Jesterofgames]

i mean, according to Christian lore creating all of existence in 7 days? Pretty much anything that is attributed to a Christian god? But like i said i have no idea how you could scale a god i just know he isn't island level lol

You can not scale religious stuff to Fictional counterparts. They need to show feats in the fiction otherwise they are featless.

 

[KLOL506]

@Arrogant_Schmuck

 

[Passersby]

i linked it though...here.

...yeah, didn't really see it first

but it still remains that the statement can't really do much, you need at least one feat at 5B

i mean, according to Christian lore creating all of existence in 7 days? Pretty much anything that is attributed to a Christian god? But like i said i have no idea how you could scale a god i just know he isn't island level lol

no not really, he still needs feats to be properly scaled, at best he can be unkown really, so you can't really use him to determine someone's tier

ive been well thanks for asking. i mixed your replies up with someone elses so let me reply to part 2 of your arguments.

then i'm genuinely glad, let's hop on to the discussion then shall we?

i havent calced the attack, but if i understand telnes powers correctly she can attack anything in her sight ignoring perspective which is how the clouds were split. so if telne were to look at the moon and then crush it with two fingers it would just pop.

this is basically a NLF(no limit fallacy), the potency of her attack in the latter assumption is far higher than what was shown, with such statement, i can for example say she can destroy all the stars in her line of sight, making her tier 4 or even higher

that can also imply she has durability negation properties

she needs more feats so we accurately guauge her limits

that being said how powerful her attacks are is not something we can determine, all we know is that its some form of reality altering attack that she hasnt explained the mechanics behind yet. i guess we have to wait for the anime because atm we only have that one panel lol.

true ig, should have read this before writing all that it seems..

oh there was a misunderstanding here because that was just a random speed feat i found. i was not meaning to say it was FTL or time manip, just wanted to throw that in there. as for Lucoa manipulating time i mean here you go friend. not all of it is time manip i just linked you something i already uploaded before.

oh, then that's fine, with that statement she can get time manip or a likely at the very least

"she redirected it" true, i just wanted to point out kanna who is considered fodder/non-combatant in the series can produce lightning speed attacks.

i see, altough there is nothing to prove the speed itself is fodder ig, and even with that MHS+ goes all the way to mach 9K, whichi 30 times faster than lightning, so she can still be MHS+ even with that

thanks for reading the post mate.

np,

 

[YeahhBoyee]

...yeah, didn't really see it first

but it still remains that the statement can't really do much, you need at least one feat at 5B

no not really, he still needs feats to be properly scaled, at best he can be unkown really, so you can't really use him to determine someone's tier

yeah fair enough, i was just confused you said no statements.

no not really, he still needs feats to be properly scaled, at best he can be unkown really, so you can't really use him to determine someone's tier

yeah i had others tell me the same thing. looks like we cant scale him off religion.

then i'm genuinely glad, let's hop on to the discussion then shall we?

yeah sure thing. i have to go to work soon though cant stick around for much longer.

i see, altough there is nothing to prove the speed itself is fodder ig, and even with that MHS+ goes all the way to mach 9K, whichi 30 times faster than lightning, so she can still be MHS+ even with that

Looks like her speed scaling is at least not completely underselling Tohru. Good to see.

true ig, should have read this before writing all that it seems..

happens, i could tell you werent intentionally trying to strawman me so i wasnt mad.

oh, then that's fine, with that statement she can get time manip or a likely at the very least

wym statement, we saw her travel 3 years into the future casually? but in any case lucoa is a whole other topic, she has an entire spinoff where she does the most unimaginable things but ill try to stick to the main topic here.

thanks for the reply, depending on when you reply i might have to respond to your next one tomorrow though (work and stuff). also if you're interested meanwhile check out this thread it has a lot of stuff i didn't list which supports at least continental/multi-continental

 

[YeahhBoyee]

You can not scale religious stuff to Fictional counterparts. They need to show feats in the fiction otherwise they are featless.

got it, had others tell me the same

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

@Arrogant_Schmuck

Wrong man lel, Schmuck isn't that much active anymore

Try ping @Phoenks instead

 

[KLOL506]

@Phoenks

 

[Magicomethkuon]

First point yeah fair enough. Its impossible to know if Tohru means she could end mankind in a week or blow the earth up in a minute. Im not about to argue we should not low-ball her as much as we can until she actually does something that lands her in that tier, but even the least impressive interpretation of that to me seems to be STILL above 6-C because what island level character can just casually end the world.

"Quotes alone aren't grounds to upgrade anyone of any cast much higher than their best feats."

Well that just seems untrue to me. Lore and statements by themselves can catapult a character into their tier without any actual feats anywhere near that tier. First guy i thought of was Truth from FMA. Looked on the profile and yep hes 2-C. Don't remember Truth ever destroying a universe or anything even remotely close. Could probably find 100 other examples given enough time.

"Water splitting attack wasn't planet level at all." agreed with you there we dont have any planet level feats yet to support the statements just showing the best we got atm.


Alright fair enough. We can just wait for feats theres a tournament arc coming up

Im interested though having read through my post in which tier would you place Tohru?

Truth's feat is not one of destruction, but it's there. It is being the embodiment of the very FMA universe. This is supported by the series at every turn, and there aren't any showings of Truth that would imply it's an overstatement. Then there's Omnipresence and how it was shown to have authority over all Gates of Truth. The final antagonist's plan revolved around the power those can grant and it further backs this up. So Truth actually has solid cumulative evidence, a feat, and nothing that contradicts it. Also gender is inapplicable, so more like an it.

All in all, there are different natures of feat that can grant a tier.

but even the least impressive interpretation of that to me seems to be STILL above 6-C because what island level character can just casually end the world.

A Massively Hypersonic+, island-blowing character who can produce nukes while playing around can and will end the world casually, especially when in Tohru's case it has been confirmed that said speed scales to how fast she travels. She is the equivalent of a giant fighter jet that is impervious to any bombs and doesn't need a refuel for 1000 years flying all over the globe, raining Island Blowing nukes at mach 3156.

I agree that Tohru is definitely higher than what we have seen of her, my personal conjecture is a country to continental buster. But there just isn't enough to raise her rating yet, unfortunately.

 

[The_Yellow_Topaz]

(its hard to say fafnir even knows what a joke is)

He can be arrogant and over-exaggerate his own capabilities.

 

[Passersby]

wym statement, we saw her travel 3 years into the future casually? but in any case lucoa is a whole other topic, she has an entire spinoff where she does the most unimaginable things but ill try to stick to the main topic here.

thanks for the reply, depending on when you reply i might have to respond to your next one tomorrow though (work and stuff). also if you're interested meanwhile check out this thread it has a lot of stuff i didn't list which supports at least continental/multi-continental

that i did not see, kudos to being sleepy as hell i guess

that's 100% time manip then

 

[The_Yellow_Topaz]

Snip

• How come an Island level character can end the world?

Any tectonic tier is enough to destroy the world in due time. Just go from place to place and wipe everything in your path. It will take you a while, but you'll eventually wipe the life off the planet.
This is because there is nothing on Earth that can stop you, you already overpower nuclear weapons by a factor of a thousand by this point.

Island level Tohru can easily wipe the world.

• Why is deleting a planet with one blow a requirement to be Planet level? Can't you just destroy stars and multiple planets at this point?

Because the Planet tier uses the energy of destroying the celestial body itself as the basis for it's tier. Claiming a character has enough energy to destroy the planet itself means they have to scale or do something on the same level as destroying the planet, that's just logic.

It's insanely high because the feat is insane.

Destroying the surface of a planet, aka, the world, in one blow is not even Moon level, for example. We classify this as Multi-Continental level, which is appropriate, "destroy all multiple continents" is basically ending the world. It takes thousands of times less energy than destroying the entire planet itself.

This becomes worse when it's over a period of time, which might be insanely high.

To answer your second question, no? Having the energy to destroy one planet is not enough to destroy multiple planets... Like come on, this is obvious!
And no, to destroy a Star, you need far more energy. I recommend you read the Attack Potency page on the wiki. It details the energy level it takes to destroy something.

I also recommend you read the Tiering System, which details the requirement of each tier in terms of visual feats.

• Glad we're discussing Multi-Continental now! Tohru and Elma made 3 island disappear in an instant.

We're not discussing Multi-Continental. The feat you mentioned is Island level, it was calculated here; the last result is the accurate one.

• Should the fictional god scale to the real one's feats

Not at all. First because the real god is portrayed as omnipotent, that's clearly not the case for the fictional version. We simply don't know how strong said God is, and we don't know how accurate his representation is.

• How about this beam for range?

Is this proven to be an attack and not an aftermath of a clash?

• But Kanna's entire body is mimicking the properties of lightning, how is it not lightning speed?

Because the beams are not lightning. Simple as that. If she attacks Tohru with any electricity-based attack, then we will consider it lightning speed.

• Lightning is 1/3 of the speed of light

No it's not. That's the return strike of lightning, the electricity itself moves at 440km/s (one-dimensional speed), which is Massively Hypersonic+.

• Tohru can never run out of mana

You have not proven that, you have proven she constantly generates mana. She can still spend more mana than she can generate and get tired as a consequence.
Again, just Mana Regeneration.

First guy i thought of was Truth from FMA. Looked on the profile and yep hes 2-C. Don't remember Truth ever destroying a universe or anything even remotely close. Could probably find 100 other examples given enough time.

Truth has no Anti-Feats and is the literal god of the universe, meaning no one scales to him. Truth also is the embodiment of the entire universe, so this example is not even close to this situation.

In this case we have characters who can harm each other destroying islands at their best. Yet you claim they're millions of times stronger.

 

[KLOL506]

We're not discussing Multi-Continental. The feat you mentioned is Island level, it was calculated here; the last result is the accurate one.

We use this calc now.

 

[YeahhBoyee]

We use this calc now.

im confused as hell by that calc because glancing through it, its assuming that Tohru and Elma fought on earth. But they didnt, this was thousands of years before Tohru came to earth. We have no idea how small or big this planet is, it could be the size of the moon or the size of Jupiter

 

[KLOL506]

im confused as hell by that calc because glancing through it, its assuming that Tohru and Elma fought on earth. But they didnt, this was thousands of years before Tohru came to earth. We have no idea how small or big this planet is, it could be the size of the moon or the size of Jupiter

We always assume Earth as the default planet where habitability is concerned, unless stated otherwise (If it's called a moon, it's our moon, if it's called a planet, it's Earth, if it's called a small planet, it's Mercury, if it's called a large planet, it's Uranus, if it's a gas giant, it's either a toss-up between Saturn or Jupiter, so on and so forth). We don't concern ourselves with bullshit like "We have no idea what size it could be" at this stage.

 

[YeahhBoyee]

Sorry for the late response, i did not see this post until i went over to this site again today, what can i say i don't come here often. Hope you still see this.

• How come an Island level character can end the world?

Any tectonic tier is enough to destroy the world in due time. Just go from place to place and wipe everything in your path. It will take you a while, but you'll eventually wipe the life off the planet.
This is because there is nothing on Earth that can stop you, you already overpower nuclear weapons by a factor of a thousand by this point.

Island level Tohru can easily wipe the world.

This is just an untrue statement, if you're only an island buster then you could literally spend 1000 years non-stop spamming your strongest attack and come nowhere clear to even destroy the planet or even its surface. Do you have any idea how big the earth is? Greenland loses 270 billion tons of ice per year and it doesn't even show up on the map. Weren't you the one that (correctly) pointed out that even a Multi-continental feat would come nowhere close to destroying the celestial body of the earth?

"you already overpower nuclear weapons by a factor of a thousand by this point."

Name one island that could take 1000 nuclear bombs to different areas without ceasing to exist.

Because the Planet tier uses the energy of destroying the celestial body itself as the basis for it's tier. Claiming a character has enough energy to destroy the planet itself means they have to scale or do something on the same level as destroying the planet, that's just logic.

It's insanely high because the feat is insane.

Destroying the surface of a planet, aka, the world, in one blow is not even Moon level, for example. We classify this as Multi-Continental level, which is appropriate, "destroy all multiple continents" is basically ending the world. It takes thousands of times less energy than destroying the entire planet itself.

This becomes worse when it's over a period of time, which might be insanely high.

You are not wrong, however. That didn't really answer the question. I asked, why do you have to be able to destroy the celestial body in one blow. A character that could destroy the earth in 3 attacks would also be a planet buster in my eyes.

To answer your second question, no? Having the energy to destroy one planet is not enough to destroy multiple planets... Like come on, this is obvious!

what

I never said anything about any scenario where you can destroy one planet as your high end feat. I said if you can destroy the earth in one blow, you should be able to destroy multiple planets. Someone who can blow up the earth with one attack could then turn around, fly to earth's slightly smaller neighbor Venus, and blow it up too. I don't see how anything other than that is obvious.

This could just be a misunderstanding but given the massive strawman you pulled earlier on me i'm pretty sure you're just intentionally misrepresenting what i said to look smart.

And no, to destroy a Star, you need far more energy. I recommend you read the Attack Potency page on the wiki. It details the energy level it takes to destroy something.

I also recommend you read the Tiering System, which details the requirement of each tier in terms of visual feats.

If you can blow up a planet in one hit you can destroy the sun too, especially if you are large planet level. There is less relative mass difference between Jupiter and the Sun than there is between the Earth and Jupiter. Jupiter is 11 times bigger than the earth and the Sun is merely 10 times bigger than Jupiter. Assuming that the wiki works as you described, you need to be able to blow up Jupiter in one blow to be Large Planet Level, and at that point destroying the sun would be Child's play.

Also: You stated earlier 6-C characters could somehow destroy the earth as island busters and you don't see the logic behind high 5-A characters that can destroy Earth or even Jupiter in 5 seconds being potential Dwarf Star busters and say "come on, this is obvious"? What?

Here's an example then: Lord Boros, a well-known character who is capable of destroying a planet (or possibly a star, depending on which translation you are faithful to, but let's say planet) in one single hit simply by releasing all of his energy. However, this kills him meaning he cannot repeat the feat and that is his maximum limit. Assuming your description of the tiering system is accurate, it seems that Lord Boros would fall in the same tier as a character like Natsu who can also destroy a planet - however he can just repeat the feat 1000 times over. This gets more absurd when we consider immortal characters like Buu who spent years destroying the galaxy over time and theoretically have an infinite destructive potential provided nobody stops them, but my point is already proven, characters have wildly differing maximum destructive potential if you don't constrain yourself to looking just at how powerful their strongest single attack is.

It doesn't make sense to me to put them side-by-side as equals, but i guess that's just how the wiki works as it needs to have standardized categories? ,However for the sake of our argument "no, to destroy a Star, you need far more energy" is just completely missing my point of how some characters can just keep attacking until they have built up that energy. The tiering system you described doesn't measure energy, it measures output and a character with a one-attack limit like Megumin would be tiered with characters that have similar output but infinite stamina and dozens if not hundreds of times more destructive capacity if measured by how much they could destroy in a day, rather than taking their strongest attacks and measuring them in a vacuum devoid of any of the character's abilities or limitations.

The wiki operating like this is one thing but for the sake of our argument it makes no sense why you pretend to be completely unable to grasp basic logic like "if i can destroy a planet in one hit, i can probably also destroy two planets" and then strawman like i'm the one who said something crazy?

However, i read the pages you recommended me and nowhere does it say that you have to produce that amount of energy in one blow to be that tier, id appreciate it if you would quote me the part that you referred to, i wouldn't be surprised if i missed something since you linked me two entire wiki pages.

Also, and i may be getting too pedantic here, but the area of destruction only guarantees a minimum level of destruction but there can easily be attacks that are contained in their destruction but still far superior to, for example, planet-busting moves. Lord Beerus's Hakai comes to mind, one of the strongest attacks we've seen even in Dragon Ball but all the destruction is directed towards the unfortunate target, it doesn't blow the galaxy up along with them. Here is where we come back to Dragon Maid, because despite the fact Tohru has never destroyed a planet on-panel, Tohru harming characters like Lucoa and Telne who scale way above planet busters is arguably more impressive. Similar to the logic that someone making Lord Beerus bleed with a punch can easily be classified as Universe buster even if they don't destroy a Universe. It all comes back to those planetary statements that you dismissed.

We're not discussing Multi-Continental. The feat you mentioned is Island level, it was calculated here; the last result is the accurate one.

These are two different fights. The first fight happened in the middle of a temple, which is when Tohru and Elma's friendship ended. It was basically their first fight ever which is why they were so surprised at each other's strength. Afterwards their dynamic changes and they become enemies and stop being friends (at least until Chapter 64), Kanna says they became "like oil and water" which was not at all their dynamic at the point of that fight. This is the fight Kanna is referring to. It happens on an unknown island, not at the temple, and in the timeline it can be placed at any point in-between Tohru and Elma falling apart and the event which presumably caused Tohru to attack the gods, which was her meeting a bandit girl. The manga and anime both skip everything that happened in-between those two key events which could easily be, idk, several hundred years of Tohru's life - but in the anime its very clear that a lot of time is being skipped.

I can understand the confusion, both of you and the first calcer who also made that assumption, since the clash Kanna referred to was never spoken of again and the guidebook also seems to vaguely imply that those were the same fights, but, these are two different fights.

And to come back to the planetary statements you dismissed. Your claim is that the damage would be caused by several dragons over the course of an entire war. That isn't what Telne is saying though, she is saying that any provocation from Kobayashi's side would result in them destroying the earth and also speaking of more immediate consequences of a conflic (something like if you mess with them, this will be the immediate retaliation). Here is what Telne said in the original language, i know some crumbs of Japanese (its barely good enough to tell that Crunchyroll subs are shit) so i am not an expert by any means but i tried my hand at finding what Telne said in the raw version with my Kanji dictionary and it comes out as literally "the earth will be destroyed" or "け大地が破壊されそ" according to me and every online translator i plugged this through (Google translate/Deepl/EasyTranslation App). There may be some Japanese speaking people here that can correct me but fairly certain i got this one at least mostly correct (full sentence is something like, the more you provoke them the more likely it is the earth will be destroyed but im not certain i have no idea wtf the second Kanji is).

But in any case pretty sure Telne means Earth as in, the celestial body of the earth not the continental crust or whatever else you said. Especially since this isn't the only planetary statement in the series, far from it, Ilulu states she can destroy the earth in her dragon form and i can't overstate how much of an ant Ilulu is compared to Telne, it's like comparing Krillin to Beerus, Ilulu's just about capable of beating one (1) low rank dragon slayer member called Clemenes 2v1 with Kanna, and lost to Clemenes before when injured, and it wasnt even close (keep in mind Ilulu is already multi-conti in dragon form even going along with you low-balling the shit out of every statement for no reason), so it makes perfect sense starting a fight with a group full of dragons much stronger than Clemenes would lead to earth's destruction.

If you think the translation is wrong here is the raw feel free to do it yourself, but otherwise i will consider your notion of "it's destroying all the land not the earth itself" disproven.

Not at all. First because the real god is portrayed as omnipotent, that's clearly not the case for the fictional version. We simply don't know how strong said God is, and we don't know how accurate his representation is.

Yeah this makes sense to me and multiple people have said similar things. I'd already edited the post at the time of this reply.

Is this proven to be an attack and not an aftermath of a clash?

Yes, the anime version shows more clearly how both of them are using their dragon beam on each other and also tongue-kissing on accident Seriously don't watch it at work.

Because the beams are not lightning. Simple as that.

It mimics lightning perfectly, similar to other Lightning users like Enel. She's even implied to convert her mana into real lightning. You can read Chapter 134, it even mimics electromagnetic properties of lightning. If Kanna is not a valid lightning user this wiki need to remove 95% of the users listed since they use even less real lightning which works on anime logic instead of real-life-physics, like how Killua overloading his brain with self-inflicted electric shock somehow increases his reaction speed instead of him getting a seizure.

If she attacks Tohru with any electricity-based attack, then we will consider it lightning speed.

We? Anyway i already linked her attacking Tohru with electricity-based-attacks in the post you are replying to as well as the OP, but sure, have this entire slideshow of Kanna using electricity based attacks. My brother in Christ, she literally charges mana by plugging her tail into power outlets. She is Lightning.

• Lightning is 1/3 of the speed of light

No it's not. That's the return strike of lightning, the electricity itself moves at 440km/s (one-dimensional speed), which is Massively Hypersonic+.

Ok so you quoted "Lightning is 1/3rd of the speed of light" (which i never said, who said that?) to then strike down that argument. Here is what i actually said:

YeahhBoyee said:
"Lightning also is hundreds of times slower than light." depends entirely on how much resistance lightning meets. lightning striking in air or moving through conductive material im pretty sure hits 100000km/s which is 1/3rd the speed of light.

• Tohru can never run out of mana

You have not proven that, you have proven she constantly generates mana. She can still spend more mana than she can generate and get tired as a consequence.
Again, just Mana Regeneration.

Yes, we have never seen the extent of Tohru's mana regeneration and so far her infinite stamina has never been shown in-combat, only implied to exist. I mean this is a slice of life series, so we only have statements for like 80% of this stuff. If that doesn't qualify her for infinite stamina, i'm more than fine with Tohrus stamina staying where it is, there are some other categories that need more attention. Very willing to take the L on this one considering how wildly wrong you are on most of your other claims.

Truth has no Anti-Feats and is the literal god of the universe, meaning no one scales to him. Truth also is the embodiment of the entire universe, so this example is not even close to this situation.

Tohru also has no anti-feats [90% of her feats are in human form which is a power restriction] literally nothing implying she couldn't be planetary and like Truth she also doesn't have any destructive feats close to planetary but a whole lot of very direct non-vague statements that put her there. For the same reason as Truth - namely that earth being destroyed would be a tad inconvenient for the story. Name one specific feat Truth has accomplished that is 2-C or even close.
I also can't help but notice how you contradict yourself (again) purely for the sake of disputing my arguments.

You say "Truth is the literal god of the universe" as definite proof to put him at 2-C when a few sentences earlier you said this;

Not at all. First because the real god is portrayed as omnipotent, that's clearly not the case for the fictional version. We simply don't know how strong said God is, and we don't know how accurate his representation is.

and also, in an earlier reply,

None of these feats are planetary. Simplying being a God isn't enough to classify for a tier.

Can't make this stuff up.

In this case we have characters who can harm each other destroying islands at their best. Yet you claim they're millions of times stronger.

It's the exact opposite.

We have a ton of characters stating they can casually end the world, Tohru, Ilulu, Telne, the literal fodder that Tohru one-shot, all of them. And your claim is that they are all delusional and overestimating their power by a factor of 1000000. Tohru and Elma clashing vaporized 3 islands. A clash with Elma and Fafnir was stated to destroy Japan. Telne is stated to be able to wipe a town of a map by snapping her fingers.

"Characters who can harm each other destroying islands at their best"

At their best? So, according to you, Telne who 1) delete a town with beyond negative difficulty 2) states the fodder dragons who are subordinate to her subordinate can and will destroy the earth over any conflict 3) has reality warping powers she hijacked from god himself, is "destroying islands at her best", and i am the one who has the ridiculous claim?

Just to be super clear: The wiki not moving the series up a tier until they have feats is fair, they need clear rules to operate under and feats to reference, even if its obvious in the context of the series that they're higher. But you wording this last paragraph as if there's no foundation to claim that these characters are much higher than 6-C is hilarious, have you tried reading my post? Or the manga?

--

In any case, i'll try to reply a little earlier if you ever see this, i sort of forgot this site existed for a few days. I enjoy a good-natured discussion like the ones with my homie Passersby, but your Strawman attempts and logical conjecture in this reply were a bit much, even for this community. I'm pretty sure you are anime-only because "destroying islands at their best" is not a statement a human being who actually follows the manga can claim with a straight face. Lucoa could destroy an island by sitting on it.

 

[The_Yellow_Topaz]

This is just an untrue statement, if you're only an island buster then you could literally spend 1000 years non-stop spamming your strongest attack and come nowhere clear to even destroy the planet or even its surface.

See, this is what happens when you have no idea what you're talking about mathematically speaking. I'm trying my best to stay at my best behavior, but you being confidently wrong is not helping at all. I was obviously talking about surface wiping/life-wiping. Ending the world, not the celestial body.

Tohru can generate around 9 Gigatons of TNT with her attacks, by using the same formula we use to evaluate a explosion by it's size, we can invert it and figure out how many hectars of land a 9 Gigaton attack. As found by the original calc, that takes a radius of 73 kilometers

Assuming a hemispherical devastation, that's an area of freaking 16.742km^2

Your Greenland example is basically worthless in comparison, not fair at all with the scope of destruction we'd be dealing with Tohru

Earth has a surface area of 510.100.000 km^2, meaning it would take 30 thousand attacks to destroy the surface of the world. Do you honestly think it would take "thousands of years" for a Massively Hypersonic+ Character to deal 30 thousand attacks? It would not.

This isn't taking into account how many attacks Tohru could deal per second. 6-C is DEFINITELY a surface wiper with enough time and speed.

Name one island that could take 1000 nuclear bombs to different areas without ceasing to exist

These are not mutually exclusive factors, all I said is that Tohru's raw energy is 1000x more potent than the strongest nuke. Also if all 1000 nukes are launched in the same spot, it would not destroy the entire island, you need to actually spread the entire energy around to actually make use of that energy.

If you can blow up a planet in one hit you can destroy the sun too, especially if you are large planet level. There is less relative mass difference between Jupiter and the Sun than there is between the Earth and Jupiter. Jupiter is 11 times bigger than the earth and the Sun is merely 10 times bigger than Jupiter. Assuming that the wiki works as you described, you need to be able to blow up Jupiter in one blow to be Large Planet Level, and at that point destroying the sun would be Child's play.

Why are you making claims with so much confidence when you're very clearly ignorant when it comes to physics? This isn't supposed to be mean, but it's frustating to see someone who knows nothing about how energy and destruction works talking as if they do.

SIZE is not proportional to energy levels, it's not even that relevant if you ignore density.
Yes, the Sun is 10 times bigger than Jupiter.It's has 1050x more mass.It has 2.6 MILLION TIMES more Gravitational Binding Energy.Destroying Jupiter does not mean you can destroy Sun, especially when you can't even "gradually" destroy a Star with such little energy, it would be absorbed by it instead.

Here's an example then: Lord Boros, a well-known character who is capable of destroying a planet (or possibly a star, depending on which translation you are faithful to, but let's say planet) in one single hit simply by releasing all of his energy. However, this kills him meaning he cannot repeat the feat and that is his maximum limit. Assuming your description of the tiering system is accurate, it seems that Lord Boros would fall in the same tier as a character like Natsu who can also destroy a planet - however he can just repeat the feat 1000 times over. This gets more absurd when we consider immortal characters like Buu who spent years destroying the galaxy over time and theoretically have an infinite destructive potential provided nobody stops them, but my point is already proven, characters have wildly differing maximum destructive potential if you don't constrain yourself to looking just at how powerful their strongest single attack is.

Nice, how about you actually look at the profiles instead of just making absurdist claims like that?

Boros is Continental, and only Multi-Continental while using Roaring Star Cannon, which is a one time attack. Natsu is Large Planet level with regular attacks. It's OBVIOUSLY different, it's presented as different.

My description was accurate, your questionable interpretation, not so much. We use actual science to determine how much energy it takes to destroy something.
We don't index ratings that don't represent the character's attack potency. You're going on a tangent and ignoring how Tohru is not planetary nor multi-continental.

Also, and i may be getting too pedantic here, but the area of destruction only guarantees a minimum level of destruction but there can easily be attacks that are contained in their destruction but still far superior to, for example, planet-busting moves.

Yes, the area of effect of ficional attacks are not "be-all end-all" of Attack Potency.
Your example with Beerus only works because:
1. It's hax.
2. Beerus has multiversal level statements and feats.

Tohru's attack happened as an aftermath of a clash, it was just natural energy expanding, it was not a targeted attack with a specific area of effect, so it represents the true extension of destruction. Tohru has nothing that proves she's stronger than Island level as every single example you presented was debunked.

who scale way above planet busters

This is just false and you keep claiming it without any substantial evidence. I'll ignore it from now on.

those planetary statements that you dismissed.

I literally debunked the very IDEA that these statements are planetary. Tohru is NOT referring to the celestial body, PERIOD, therefore it cannot be Planet level.

Ok so you quoted "Lightning is 1/3rd of the speed of light" (which i never said, who said that?) to then strike down that argument. Here is what i actually said:

"I didn't say lightning is 1/3 of the speed of light, I said lighting striking in the air is 1/3 of the speed of light"

Which is exactly what I debunked, Kanna's lightning strikes are Mach 1234, not 1/3rd of the speed of light.

Tohru also has no anti-feats

She ain't got no feats either.

Can't make this stuff up.

This is called you being functionally illiterate and not understanding how these two claims are different,

"Simply being a god isn't enough to classify to a tier", meaning you can't just scale "Anime Jesus" to "Real Life Jesus" and put it on the anime profile for example.

"Truth is the literal god of the universe", meaning It is on his own tier, above all else, meaning no one scales to him in any way, shape or form, making it far harder to point out contradictions of Its tier.

Truth being a god alone is not even CLOSE to the reason why Its 2-C. Again, read the profile ffs.

infinite stamina has never been shown in-combat

Meaning you're gonna stop to argue for it and let it go.

And your claim is that they are all delusional and overestimating their power by a factor of 1000000. Tohru and Elma clashing vaporized 3 islands. A clash with Elma and Fafnir was stated to destroy Japan. Telne is stated to be able to wipe a town of a map by snapping her fingers.

All Island-to-country level feats

I'm not claiming jackshit, I'm saying these statements are NOT multi-conti, nor planetary because NONE OF THESE STATEMENTS IMPLY IT WOULD HAPPEN IN ONE BLOW. It's literally as freaking simple as that, how can this not get through your thick skull?

Country level attacks can destroy the world with due time as I already proved.

has reality warping powers

That's not a feat of Attack Potency and you'll stop using it as an example of it.

is "destroying islands at her best", and i am the one who has the ridiculous claim?

YES!

Because none of these ******* feats,

ARE BEYOND

ISLAND LEVEL. It's COUNTRY level at BEST.

have you tried reading my post? Or the manga?

How about you turn down the hubris?

I completely evicerated your claims that "having surface-wiping statements OVER TIME is above island level" above, I don't wanna hear it.

 

[The_Yellow_Topaz]

Strawman attempts and logical conjecture in this reply were a bit much, even for this community.

You're being delusional, and somehow that's my fault?

"These "end of the world over time" statements are planet level because I say it is (I actually don't know jackshit about how energy levels work)"

"If you can destroy Jupiter, you could destroy the Sun (ignores that it takes 2 million times the energy of destroying Jupiter to destroy the Sun)"
"Lightning strikes in the air is 1/3 of the speed of light"

"Oh, because Lucoa can warp reality, this surely is evidence they're above island level (two completely unrelated facts)"

 

[The_Yellow_Topaz]

Snip

KLOL, is there any way to close this toomfoolery?

 

[KLOL506]

You could ask a thread mod or admin to do it. I can't close threads because I have no such power unfortunately.

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

You could ask a thread mod or admin to do it. I can't close threads because I have no such power unfortunately.

Hold up KLOL, the thread isn't finished yet and as far as you see, Topaz have this kind of aggresive behaviour against the OP, and if you know Topaz history then i suggest to keep on eye on Topaz in this thread

 

[Dereck03]

I can't close threads because I have no such power unfortunately

 

[Dereck03]

Hold up KLOL, the thread isn't finished yet and as far as you see, Topaz have this kind of aggresive behaviour against the OP, and if you know Topaz history then i suggest to keep on eye on Topaz in this thread

Okay, this seems to make sense, i'll unlock the thread for the time being and keep an eye over the behaviour.

 

[The_Yellow_Topaz]

Okay, this seems to make sense, i'll unlock the thread for the time being and keep an eye over the behaviour.

I am adamant, not aggressive. Trying to bang my head on a brick wall after trying to instruct the OP is not really fun, especially when the person tries to claim I tried to "strawman" them after simply explaining we take single or reasonably fast attacking power to index it as AP, amongst other cases of OP "not knowing the standards" of the wiki, like lightning speed being used as evidence for faster-than-light speed.

This thread is finished because our own standards refute the original post's proposals, there is nothing else to discuss other than educating OP on how physics and the wiki work, which honestly isn't really something that this thread should be doing.

 

[Magicomethkuon]

snip

Not all that involved with the discussion anymore, but I'll provide a few system clarifications to help out.

This gets more absurd when we consider immortal characters like Buu who spent years destroying the galaxy over time and theoretically have an infinite destructive potential provided nobody stops them, but my point is already proven, characters have wildly differing maximum destructive potential if you don't constrain yourself to looking just at how powerful their strongest single attack is.

It doesn't make sense to me to put them side-by-side as equals, but i guess that's just how the wiki works as it needs to have standardized categories? ,However for the sake of our argument "no, to destroy a Star, you need far more energy" is just completely missing my point of how some characters can just keep attacking until they have built up that energy. The tiering system you described doesn't measure energy, it measures output and a character with a one-attack limit like Megumin would be tiered with characters that have similar output but infinite stamina and dozens if not hundreds of times more destructive capacity if measured by how much they could destroy in a day, rather than taking their strongest attacks and measuring them in a vacuum devoid of any of the character's abilities or limitations.

These forums cover that kind of difference. Your example of Megumin gets her rating as an addendum. Without casting explosion magic she qualifies only for 9-C. The weakness section explains that she will be exhausted upon usage. But you have been very polite over the course of this discussion, which leads me to think that you just weren't familiar with that part of the system yet.

Also, and i may be getting too pedantic here, but the area of destruction only guarantees a minimum level of destruction but there can easily be attacks that are contained in their destruction but still far superior to, for example, planet-busting moves. Lord Beerus's Hakai comes to mind, one of the strongest attacks we've seen even in Dragon Ball but all the destruction is directed towards the unfortunate target, it doesn't blow the galaxy up along with them.

Here there is fundament to what you are trying to say. Many characters with mind-blowing feats aren't shown destroying to their full potential, most of the time. But Hakai is simply unquantifiable hax. To go with DBS a better example would the final battle in Zamasu's arc barely destroying an already ruined city.

Here is where we come back to Dragon Maid, because despite the fact Tohru has never destroyed a planet on-panel, Tohru harming characters like Lucoa and Telne who scale way above planet busters is arguably more impressive. Similar to the logic that someone making Lord Beerus bleed with a punch can easily be classified as Universe buster even if they don't destroy a Universe. It all comes back to those planetary statements that you dismissed.

Scaling chains are accepted here. But there's no possible compromise on where characters that Tohru can contend with or defeat are in the totem pole. Majority vote errs on the side of caution. Part of the problem lies exactly in the world will end, earth will be destroyed statements. There's an excess of factors that make them too nebulous for decisive judgment. It's not that they don't count, but the room for debate is too big. For that reason, she has an At least to her rating. These forums acknowledge that the potential for her to be higher is there and that current feats are lesser than her full potential. But gaps between tiers are immense and few would be on board with a raise as high as island to planet without concrete evidence. Current statements are cumulative, but not enough.

Tohru also has no anti-feats [90% of her feats are in human form which is a power restriction] literally nothing implying she couldn't be planetary and like Truth she also doesn't have any destructive feats close to planetary but a whole lot of very direct non-vague statements that put her there. For the same reason as Truth - namely that earth being destroyed would be a tad inconvenient for the story. Name one specific feat Truth has accomplished that is 2-C or even close.

To explain Truth's tier, it's about what it is more than what it has done. The same way that a human defaults to average human level until proven otherwise, Truth is where it's at because its existence is the Universe and all within. Once more, the feat is there even if it's not one of destruction. And by the way, Truth is Low 2-C. 2-C would be more than one Universe.

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

This is just an untrue statement, if you're only an island buster then you could literally spend 1000 years non-stop spamming your strongest attack and come nowhere clear to even destroy the planet or even its surface.

Eh? You don’t have to be High 6-A to destroy the planet’s surface within a thousand years, especially if you’re over a thousand of times faster than sound like Tohru (or alternatively faster than the speed of light, as you are proposing).

 

[Dereck03]

Not all that involved with the discussion anymore, but I'll provide a few system clarifications to help out.

These forums cover that kind of difference. Your example of Megumin gets her rating as an addendum. Without casting explosion magic she qualifies only for 9-C. The weakness section explains that she will be exhausted upon usage. But you have been very polite over the course of this discussion, which leads me to think that you just weren't familiar with that part of the system yet.

Here there is fundament to what you are trying to say. Many characters with mind-blowing feats aren't shown destroying to their full potential, most of the time. But Hakai is simply unquantifiable hax. To go with DBS a better example would the final battle in Zamasu's arc barely destroying an already ruined city.

Scaling chains are accepted here. But there's no possible compromise on where characters that Tohru can contend with or defeat are in the totem pole. Majority vote errs on the side of caution. Part of the problem lies exactly in the world will end, earth will be destroyed statements. There's an excess of factors that make them too nebulous for decisive judgment. It's not that they don't count, but the room for debate is too big. For that reason, she has an At least to her rating. These forums acknowledge that the potential for her to be higher is there, and that current feats are lesser than her full potential. But gaps between tiers are immense and few would be on board with a raise as high as island to planet without concrete evidence. Current statements are cumulative, but not enough.

To explain Truth's tier, it's about what it is more than what it has done. The same way that a human defaults to average human level until proven otherwise, Truth is where it's at because its existence is the Universe and all within. Once more, the feat is there even if it's not one of destruction. And by the way, Truth is Low 2-C. 2-C would be more than one Universe.

This seems to make very good sense.