Tohru is planetary

[KLOL506]

Who is this Truth being?

 

[The_Yellow_Topaz]

Who is this Truth being?

Here

 

[KLOL506]

Ah. I thought it was a new Dragon Maid character.

 

[DMUA]

Destroying the world is very possible with 6-C energy

 

[YeahhBoyee]

See, this is what happens when you have no idea what you're talking about mathematically speaking. I'm trying my best to stay at my best behavior, but you being confidently wrong is not helping at all. I was obviously talking about surface wiping/life-wiping. Ending the world, not the celestial body.

Not sure why we are talking about that then? That's not ending the world or even anywhere close to it, that's wiping out humanity. Tohru and other characters have repeated statement that they'd destroy the world itself, not kill the humans inside of it. Not even remotely the same.

Tohru can generate around 9 Gigatons of TNT with her attacks, by using the same formula we use to evaluate a explosion by it's size, we can invert it and figure out how many hectars of land a 9 Gigaton attack. As found by the original calc, that takes a radius of 73 kilometers

Assuming a hemispherical devastation, that's an area of freaking 16.742km^2

Your Greenland example is basically worthless in comparison, not fair at all with the scope of destruction we'd be dealing with Tohru

Earth has a surface area of 510.100.000 km^2, meaning it would take 30 thousand attacks to destroy the surface of the world. Do you honestly think it would take "thousands of years" for a Massively Hypersonic+ Character to deal 30 thousand attacks? It would not.

This isn't taking into account how many attacks Tohru could deal per second. 6-C is DEFINITELY a surface wiper with enough time and speed.

Again all of this only applies when you are speaking about destroying humanity, which is not a feat of destruction worth mentioning imo since humans are not exactly difficult to kill, its more a matter of range and stamina than anything. None of what you said would have the slighest impact on the planet itself.

These are not mutually exclusive factors, all I said is that Tohru's raw energy is 1000x more potent than the strongest nuke. Also if all 1000 nukes are launched in the same spot, it would not destroy the entire island, you need to actually spread the entire energy around to actually make use of that energy.

Ok so you just didn't answer the question, cool.

Why are you making claims with so much confidence when you're very clearly ignorant when it comes to physics? This isn't supposed to be mean, but it's frustating to see someone who knows nothing about how energy and destruction works talking as if they do.

SIZE is not proportional to energy levels, it's not even that relevant if you ignore density.
Yes, the Sun is 10 times bigger than Jupiter.It's has 1050x more mass.It has 2.6 MILLION TIMES more Gravitational Binding Energy.Destroying Jupiter does not mean you can destroy Sun, especially when you can't even "gradually" destroy a Star with such little energy, it would be absorbed by it instead.

Just for future reference putting "Im not trying to be mean but" is not an excuse to constantly follow it up with something like "you're so ignorant, you have no idea what you're even saying etc. etc." Just look at your first two sentences in a vacuum, they have no purpose other than insulting me.

Now to get to your argument. Yes, no SHIT MASS EXPONENTIALLY INCREASES WITH SIZE

If you are two times bigger than someone, and have roughly the same build, you have. Its called the square-cube law and we learn this in our first year of physics here in Germany at least, no idea why you're explaining 5th-grade-math and pretending i don't know about it. It doesn't change the fact that blowing up something with the mass of Jupiter in one hit will cause substantial damage to the sun. Do you not understand that concept at all?

You said just earlier "it would take 30 thousand attacks to destroy the surface of the world."

And you think the Sun could take 30000 attacks each of which can completely destroy Jupiter??

Nice, how about you actually look at the profiles instead of just making absurdist claims like that?

Boros is Continental, and only Multi-Continental while using Roaring Star Cannon, which is a one time attack. Natsu is Large Planet level with regular attacks. It's OBVIOUSLY different, it's presented as different.

My description was accurate, your questionable interpretation, not so much. We use actual science to determine how much energy it takes to destroy something.
We don't index ratings that don't represent the character's attack potency. You're going on a tangent and ignoring how Tohru is not planetary nor multi-continental.

This was not about their actual power, that's why i said "let's assume he's a planet buster", but im not surprised you'd try to strawman this.

You once again completely dodged the question of how the Tiering System distinguishes between characters that have an ultimate attack reaching a certain tier (for example planet buster) which they can only use one-time and then throwing characters in there that have the same maximum output and can repeatedly perform planet-level attacks.

Yes, the area of effect of ficional attacks are not "be-all end-all" of Attack Potency.
Your example with Beerus only works because:
1. It's hax.
2. Beerus has multiversal level statements and feats.

None of the two points you bring up clash with the idea that you cannot simply measure the area of destruction an ability causes in order to measure how strong someone is.

Tohru's attack happened as an aftermath of a clash, it was just natural energy expanding, it was not a targeted attack with a specific area of effect, so it represents the true extension of destruction.

Again, how would you know any of this, are you the author of Dragon Maid by chance? "it was not a targeted attack" They both fired point-blank dragon breaths at each other which were then reflected to outer space by each other. Funny how you said earlier that i was the one who was confidently wrong.

Tohru has nothing that proves she's stronger than Island level as every single example you presented was debunked.

She has a ton of statements which is why i later brought up Truth as an example of a character who also doesn't have a destructive feat to put him in his tier, hasn't destroyed any universes or anything of the sort, and you were the one who told me merely being a god is not enough to be scaled so obviously statements by themselves can sometimes suffice to tier characters.

This is just false and you keep claiming it without any substantial evidence. I'll ignore it from now on.

This changes nothing but I'm glad you at least admit you just ignore my arguments completely. Also "without any substantial evidence" other than the many statements that you just claim are speaking about wiping out humanity with your proof for that being "Source: Dude trust me" and the fact they have no anti-feats to dispute those statements whatsoever.

I literally debunked the very IDEA that these statements are planetary. Tohru is NOT referring to the celestial body, PERIOD, therefore it cannot be Planet level.

Again, Source: Dude trust me.

When exactly did you debunk that Tohru is not referring to the celestial body? I've provided multiple panels, multiple times, when they are speaking of destroying the world itself, not mentioning anything about destroying humans but the world which in Dragon Maid is classified as earth and as a non-interference zone. I've literally went out of my way to see if you are correct and spent 30 minutes honestly checking if the translation in Chapter 106 was correct about Telne saying that the Dragon Slayers would destroy the earth, or if you were correct and it was referring to something else, and it was referring the earth period.

Read through everything you wrote, what have you done to debunk any of this? None of your assumptions have had any conclusive proof behind them.

"I didn't say lightning is 1/3 of the speed of light, I said lighting striking in the air is 1/3 of the speed of light"

Which is exactly what I debunked, Kanna's lightning strikes are Mach 1234, not 1/3rd of the speed of light.

I don't mind overlooking your general condescending tone and constant yapping about how i don't know anything but please don't defend your disgusting strawman attempt by claiming it was about Kanna, you pretended that i said Lightning moves at 1/3rd the speed of light in general and then gave me a lesson on conductivity as if i didn't say the exact same thing you were saying. You were trying to have your reddit moment and look smart, that's all.

She ain't got no feats either.

Neither does Truth... and yet you mentioned him having no anti-feats as if this was somehow different from Tohru.

She ain't got no feats either.

This is called you being functionally illiterate and not understanding how these two claims are different,

"Simply being a god isn't enough to classify to a tier", meaning you can't just scale "Anime Jesus" to "Real Life Jesus" and put it on the anime profile for example.

"Truth is the literal god of the universe", meaning It is on his own tier, above all else, meaning no one scales to him in any way, shape or form, making it far harder to point out contradictions of Its tier.

Truth being a god alone is not even CLOSE to the reason why Its 2-C. Again, read the profile ffs.

You don't get to call me illiterate after you failed to grasp basic logic such as "If i can destroy one planet in one hit with no particular effort, i can also destroy multiple planets of the same size if i am permitted to use more than one attack to do it, so why am i not a multiple planet buster at that point?"

and then wrote this sentence in response to that question as a real sentient human being;

To answer your second question, no? Having the energy to destroy one planet is not enough to destroy multiple planets... Like come on, this is obvious!

That is the worst single example of reading comprehension i've ever seen, so don't throw stones when you live in a glass house.

Now that i've addressed your obligatory insult let's get to your actual arguments.

"Truth is the literal god of the universe", meaning It is on his own tier, above all else, meaning no one scales to him in any way, shape or form, making it far harder to point out contradictions of Its tier.

Ok wow that's a long paragraph just to write "hes god and he has no anti-feats"

Which is exactly what Tohru's god is. Tohru's god arguably is even more impossible to scale as his only failure separating him from omnipotence is not killing Tohru in one hit, whereas Truth was nearly hijacked by the Homunculus in a bottle and the MC's had to make him vomit god back up, and Edward Elric was also able to resist being dragged into the gate for a time.

Truth being a god alone is not even CLOSE to the reason why Its 2-C. Again, read the profile ffs.

"Read the profile" What do you think i did before choosing him as an example? Here's the wiki's explanation for his attack potency

"Attack Potency: Universe level+ (Everything that exists, including the whole universe is a part of The Truth)"

You always make these claims like "there are so many arguments against this", "i have CONCLUSIVELY DISPROVEN THIS" etc. but you don't actually show your arguments. When there is an inconvenient question posed you will literally ignore it, like how i asked you to name an island that could take 1000 separate nukes without ceasing to exist in reply to your random baseless claim that "island busters outpower nuclear bombs by a factor of 1000", and then you just ran from the actual question and refused to answer it.

Meaning you're gonna stop to argue for it and let it go.

This is what i wrote in your reply.

If that doesn't qualify her for infinite stamina, i'm more than fine with Tohrus stamina staying where it is, there are some other categories that need more attention. Very willing to take the L on this one considering how wildly wrong you are on most of your other claims.

The fact that you called me illiterate is irony of the finest art. Did you forget to read the post you're replying to, or is it just beyond your abilities?

All Island-to-country level feats

I'm not claiming jackshit, I'm saying these statements are NOT multi-conti, nor planetary because NONE OF THESE STATEMENTS IMPLY IT WOULD HAPPEN IN ONE BLOW. It's literally as freaking simple as that, how can this not get through your thick skull?

Country level attacks can destroy the world with due time as I already proved.

Two things:

1. Remember how i repeatedly asked your dumb ass to go and find me where in the wiki it states you have to be able to destroy something (such as a planet) in one blow to be a planet buster? Here is the paragraph that you didn't read:

However, i read the pages you recommended me and nowhere does it say that you have to produce that amount of energy in one blow to be that tier, id appreciate it if you would quote me the part that you referred to, i wouldn't be surprised if i missed something since you linked me two entire wiki pages.

So, could you not ignore that this time???

2. "NONE OF THESE STATEMENTS IMPLY IT WOULD HAPPEN IN ONE BLOW."

No, they just imply that Ilulu could do it in her dragon form, the fodder that Tohru one-shot and then one-shot their leader could do it easily as retaliation for messing with them [i even double-checked the translation on that] and start of series Tohru who was recovering from a massive injury and is much less powerful than she is now, could do it casually.

I never claimed that they could blow up the celestial body in one hit, because prior to this discussion i was not aware that was a requirement. Hence my questioning of why some characters are tiered the way they are and my Truth example who has certainly not destroyed a universe in one hit.

And then i asked you to show me where it states that the wiki requires destroying the planet in one blow to be that tier, and you ******* ignored it.

And now you are typing in all caps as if i am the one who ignored you, brother i literally asked you for sources and you ignored it.

YES!

Because none of these ***** feats,

ARE BEYOND

ISLAND LEVEL. It's COUNTRY level at BEST.

You don't seem to be able to grasp you are contradicting your own arguments. Dismissing all statements that exist in Dragon Maid because of a lack of feats would also remove all foundation for Truth to even be tiered, let alone be 2-C. You claimed that Truth being a god is not the reason he's this high, yet neglected to mention a single other reason for why he is 2-C, and the profile has no feats or anything other than statements either. So have it one way or the other.

You mentioned how you'll try to stay on your best behavior. If this is your best behavior i feel sorry for your household. Take your meds before your next reply.

 

[YeahhBoyee]

Not all that involved with the discussion anymore, but I'll provide a few system clarifications to help out.

These forums cover that kind of difference. Your example of Megumin gets her rating as an addendum. Without casting explosion magic she qualifies only for 9-C. The weakness section explains that she will be exhausted upon usage. But you have been very polite over the course of this discussion, which leads me to think that you just weren't familiar with that part of the system yet.

Here there is fundament to what you are trying to say. Many characters with mind-blowing feats aren't shown destroying to their full potential, most of the time. But Hakai is simply unquantifiable hax. To go with DBS a better example would the final battle in Zamasu's arc barely destroying an already ruined city.

Scaling chains are accepted here. But there's no possible compromise on where characters that Tohru can contend with or defeat are in the totem pole. Majority vote errs on the side of caution. Part of the problem lies exactly in the world will end, earth will be destroyed statements. There's an excess of factors that make them too nebulous for decisive judgment. It's not that they don't count, but the room for debate is too big. For that reason, she has an At least to her rating. These forums acknowledge that the potential for her to be higher is there and that current feats are lesser than her full potential. But gaps between tiers are immense and few would be on board with a raise as high as island to planet without concrete evidence. Current statements are cumulative, but not enough.

To explain Truth's tier, it's about what it is more than what it has done. The same way that a human defaults to average human level until proven otherwise, Truth is where it's at because its existence is the Universe and all within. Once more, the feat is there even if it's not one of destruction. And by the way, Truth is Low 2-C. 2-C would be more than one Universe.

Thank you, this makes a lot of sense! Reading this after the last post i replied to was definitely a contrasting experience LOL

 

[YeahhBoyee]

I am adamant, not aggressive.

Here are some quotes from you.

See, this is what happens when you have no idea what you're talking about mathematically speaking

Why are you making claims with so much confidence when you're very clearly ignorant when it comes to physics?

Nice, how about you actually look at the profiles instead of just making absurdist claims like that?

nice strawman btw, i specified for the sake of the example we'll say he is a planet buster

This is called you being functionally illiterate and not understanding how these two claims are different

I'm not claiming jackshit, I'm saying these statements are NOT multi-conti, nor planetary because NONE OF THESE STATEMENTS IMPLY IT WOULD HAPPEN IN ONE BLOW. It's literally as freaking simple as that, how can this not get through your thick skull?

I am adamant, not aggressive.

Please go touch some grass.

 

[YeahhBoyee]

Destroying the world is very possible with 6-C energy

You're right but i was referring to destroying the planet itself. Igniting the atmosphere would definitely destroy all of humanity but it wouldn't hurt the actual planet or planetary surface. That being said it is kind of crazy to me that a 6-C character can do that much

 

[KLOL506]

what is even going on here anymore

I just want Season 3 of my favorite lesbian dragon babe's wholesome anime

 

[DMUA]

You're right but i was referring to destroying the planet itself.

Yeah, but statement in the actual series doesn't, it just says "The world". Even the dragon Slayer statement only gets slightly more specific, saying that a fight would have the earth be destroyed, which doesn't exactly indicate that a stray attack would result in the gravitational Binding Energy of earth being overpowered. It's also a strange statement to take as true if a fight with them just results in humiliation to the point it's questioned as to whether they're actually capable of defeating the people they're fighting.

 

[The_Yellow_Topaz]

Snip

In retort to my attitude, you make a very mean-spirited comment about me needing to "taking my meds" despite how serious of a problem a person going through mental health issues is going through. You just lost any hope of being the bigger person here.

• I read the pages you recommended me and nowhere does it say that you have to produce that amount of energy in one blow to be that tier.

Let me address this since your entire premise is the idea that over time feats of destruction can be indexed as full ratings.

"The attack potency depends on the energy output of a single attack, not the area of effect of the attack."

I have a strong reason to believe you didn't even read the page I recommended at all given it's over literally in bold on the page.

This should end any arguments about over time feats being true representation of a character's power level.

It's easy to understand, the wiki is indexing how much power a character can output per attack. We could index over time feats as "environmental destruction" (ED), but it needs to happen in, either too fast to be irrelevant, or not reliant on speed and going "ape sh*t" on the environment, like a constant blast that will eventually consume the world would not be planet level AP, but would be planet level ED. Environmental Destruction ratings are not quite as relevant.

• Your argument about surface wiping taking not that long only makes sense when talking about destroying humanity.

Not at all, what I presented is equivalent to turning the entire world into a desert, effectively destroying it. You need to prove that by destroying the world, they'd cause the celestial body to blow up beyond it's natural gravitational binding energy. That's what we tie our Planet level ratings to.

None of the statements imply such intensity of destruction, much less in a relevant timeframe for a rating. You need to address the fact none of your evidence is substantial enough for planet level and the fact the timeframe hinders every statement by a lot. This entire back and forth has been you denying to provide any valid evidence for what you're proposing. Actually, you're not even vouching for Planet level anymore, so what would you want to get out of this CRT? "At least Island level, likely higher"?

• You never answered my question about which island could take a 1000 nukes

Your question had nothing to do with my claim, or this debate at all, it's pure red herring.

I said Tohru cannot be stopped by nuclear weapons because her durability overpowers them by a factor of a thousand. You suddenly asked which Island could take 1000 nukes and still exist, which is not what I said.

That's a strawman, YeahhBoyee. Not whatever you accused me, but this, is. My point was that Tohru is too strong for nuclear weapons to damage her. You want her to be above island level, shouldn't you just agree?

• Saying I'm ignorant in a subject that I have shown ignorance in, is offensive!

Not even going to address this. You lack knowledge on physics. That's a fact. If you're offended by this, stop acting like you know what you're talking about. I've effectively proven you don't.

• Do you honestly think Sun could take 30 thousand attacks that can destroy Jupiter???

Let's do a recap exercise.

It has 2.6 MILLION TIMES more Gravitational Binding Energy.

So... Yes, it could take 30k attacks that destroyed Jupiter.
Actually, it could take over two million of these attacks and still wouldn't overcome the amount of energy the Sun generates just by existing. Your problem is assuming damage is cumulative in a star, it is not.

• You once again completely dodged the question of how the Tiering System distinguishes between a character having an ultimate attack with a certain tier, and a character who regularly have this tier.

But I explained?

This is incomprehensible to me, how could you NOT understand?

A character that has an ultimate attack that reaches a certain tier will not be tie(red as that certain tier in their base form. Simple as that.
I didn't strawman you because Natsu is actually a planet level character.

I used both examples you posted and explained how the distinction happens.

Borus: X Tier, Y Tier with Ultimate Attack (His weakness section also describes how he can only use this attack once)

Natsu: Y Tier.

It's not hard, really.

• You cannot simply measure the area of destruction an ability causes in order to measure how strong someone is.

Your Beerus example is a false equivalency because the character has higher feats and the example is hax, meaning it cannot be attributed to a energy level tier.

Area of Destruction is valid if the character has literally no higher feats or statements at their disposal. Especially if the attack does not have a arbritary area of effect that's decided by the user. Tohru's Dragon Breath doesn't.

• Truth doesn't have any Low 2-C feats.

As the profile details, Truth is the universe itself embodied. Being the universe is a Low 2-C feat for obvious reasons. This isn't comparable to Tohru at all, who has ambiguous statements that can be discussed for hours, point being proven as we speak.

• "If i can destroy one planet in one hit with no particular effort, i can also destroy multiple planets of the same size if i am permitted to use more than one attack to do it, so why am i not a multiple planet buster at that point?"

The whole foundation of my argument is that what you can do with multiple attacks is irrelevant to your attack potency because the rating should represent how much energy you can output with your attack. It's not rocket science, your point was red herring again, it's irrelevant to the discussion, they wouldn't be multi-planet (not an actual tier) buster because they didn't do it in one blow.

• Ok wow that's a long paragraph just to write "hes god and he has no anti-feats"

You can misrepresent and strawman my argument as many times as you want.

My point still stands, Truth being a god is not the reason It is Universe+ level, It being the universe itself incarnate is. It being a god is just a fact that helps It be that tier without any contradictions because nobody would scale to It (and thus one couldn't use the character that scale as a contradiction for example)

Dragon Maid's God is simply a God and that's it. It has no feats at all.

• Pointless arguments about Truth not showing omnipotence

Good thing Truth is not indexed as omnipotent, but as Low 2-C. Don't know how being subdued by the system It created for itself is a contradiction. And the gates of truth are not Truth itself, it only allows one to see the truth.

While you could make an argument about Truth being everything and everyone at once, this would fall flat as you could make the same argument for any force of the universe that's not Low 2-C being resisted by regular people. Again, this is red herring and irrelevant to the topic.

• Your random baseless claim that "island busters outpower nuclear bombs by a factor of 1000"

And you thought a refute would be pointing out that 1000 nukes would destroy an island? Again, that's just ignorance.

Overpowering something by a factor of a 1000 simply means you generate one thousand times the amount of energy that something generates.

And what do you mean baseless? KLOL literally linked you to a Tohru calc where she takes 18 Gigatons of energy to her face and survives. The strongest nuke on the planet is Tsar Bomb with 50 Megatons.

Tohru can generate and survive energy levels that are more than one thousand times stronger than a nuclear bomb, thus she overpowers them by a factor of a thousand.

You complain about me having to explain things like you're in 5th grade, but literally look at this lack of comprehension on your side.

i literally asked you for sources

I linked you to the Attack Potency page on the first reply. You did not read the page. It's impossible to miss the bolded message saying you need to do your feat in a single attack.

Your entire argument is that,

"This character scales above fodder who are stated they could destroy the Earth as they fight", which is nothing concrete and cannot be attributed to a tier.

• When did you debunk Tohru referring to the celestial body

When I pointed none of the panels you posted prove that she was referring to one.
When I asked you for actual evidence or direct statements, and you ignored it, believing you've already achieved your burden of proof.

"World" is the single most ambiguous word when it comes to referring to a place, it can mean society, everything on the planet, or the celestial body. It cannot be used as concrete evidence for Tohru destroying the celestial body.

"Earth" can and has been used as synonymous to "World" before.

• Dismissing all statements that exist in Dragon Maid because of a lack of feats would also remove all foundation for Truth to even be tiered, let alone be 2-C. You claimed that Truth being a god is not the reason he's this high, yet neglected to mention a single other reason for why he is 2-C, and the profile has no feats or anything other than statements either. So have it one way or the other.

Last point.

It would not. Truth is the very embodiment of the universe. Destroying something is not the only way to classify for a tier, that's a one-track mind. Being the universe itself, funny enough, is enough to classify for the universe level+ tier.

I didn't dismiss the statements, I dismissed YOUR attempt at upgrading character based on them.

I stated that Planet level needs to happen in one blow. None of the statements provided evidence of that.
I stated that world and Earth are not necessarily the celestial body. None of the statements are definitive on that.
Only then I explained how Tohru has no feats that come even close to this level and it would be a MASSIVE upgrade based on just ambiguous statements that don't define any tier at all due to a lack of a timeframe and true scope of destruction.

Please do reply if you'd enjoy to be debunked again.

 

[YeahhBoyee]

In retort to my attitude, you make a very mean-spirited comment about me needing to "taking my meds" despite how serious of a problem a person going through mental health issues is going through. You just lost any hope of being the bigger person here.

After all the mentally unstable comments you launched at me you are complaining about being treated as such?

Your opinion of who the bigger person is, could not be any less relevant to me. According to multiple people here you have a history of saying worse on a consistent basis to the point a moderator has to watch over this thread in case you go completely off the rails, Mr. Hypocrite.

Let me address this since your entire premise is the idea that over time feats of destruction can be indexed as full ratings.

"The attack potency depends on the energy output of a single attack, not the area of effect of the attack."

I have a strong reason to believe you didn't even read the page I recommended at all given it's over literally in bold on the page.

This should end any arguments about over time feats being true representation of a character's power level.

It's easy to understand, the wiki is indexing how much power a character can output per attack. We could index over time feats as "environmental destruction" (ED), but it needs to happen in, either too fast to be irrelevant, or not reliant on speed and going "ape sh*t" on the environment, like a constant blast that will eventually consume the world would not be planet level AP, but would be planet level ED. Environmental Destruction ratings are not quite as relevant.

"Didn't even read it?" I lost count of how many times i read through that page, and i even asked you to provide specific sources from it which you now finally did.... So what you are referring to is measuring Attack Potency of a single attack. Obviously in a vacuum Attack Potency can only be measured by the single strongest attack, we are discussing overall Tiering here. Again, you mentioned to me that a 6-C character could literally go around destroying the entire world (or well, planet surface) with ease, and ignite the entire atmosphere, so why are they "only" classified as Island Busters and not Planet Surface busters? That was my initial question.

We could index over time feats as "environmental destruction" (ED), but it needs to happen in, either too fast to be irrelevant, or not reliant on speed and going "ape sh*t" on the environment, like a constant blast that will eventually consume the world would not be planet level AP, but would be planet level ED. Environmental Destruction ratings are not quite as relevant.

This somewhat answers one of my questions, so it is indexed just in a different category. I'd also have questions of what is counted as "one blow", for example the attack that puts Tohru on Island level is technically a shared feat between Tohru and Elma, yet it is still seemingly counted as one singular attack since that was enough to tier her into 6-C.

I could be misunderstanding something obviously but i hope we are finally on the same page on this question.

Not at all, what I presented is equivalent to turning the entire world into a desert, effectively destroying it. You need to prove that by destroying the world, they'd cause the celestial body to blow up beyond it's natural gravitational binding energy. That's what we tie our Planet level ratings to.

None of the statements imply such intensity of destruction, much less in a relevant timeframe for a rating. You need to address the fact none of your evidence is substantial enough for planet level and the fact the timeframe hinders every statement by a lot. This entire back and forth has been you denying to provide any valid evidence for what you're proposing. Actually, you're not even vouching for Planet level anymore, so what would you want to get out of this CRT? "At least Island level, likely higher"?

I agree with two things you said here: That the timeframe is completely left vague (especially due to the immortal nature of Dragons) and that i am not vouching for Planet level necessarily. This is not something i disputed, i said in the very first reply that it's completely up to interpretation how fast Tohru could end the world (Dragon Slayer statement aside which has strong implications of immediate destruction but that has other issues); so let me be transparent. When i started this thread i was under the assumption that being able to destroy a planet means you are planet level. I did not know about caveats such as "having to do it in one blow" and "having to do it on-screen", now, taking the rules in mind, i can fully understand if the wiki doesn't tier it to Planet Level anymore. I said so in my previous reply to you as well.

However, what i did present was very strong evidence that they are at least capable of it in some extent. No matter how much you downplay all of these statements, none of them refer to "wiping out humanity", but rather ending the world (again, even checked the original translation). I am not an expert on this wiki but i would say being able to destroy the world (again, not humanity but at least the planetary surface) would be like multi-continental at least, certainly not Island level.

So what i am advocating here is for the wiki to take these statements in mind and then re-tier them, lowballing as much as possible since we don't have any feats backing up the various Planetary (-,or Multi-Conti) statements. As well as look over some of the other categories looking at things such as Fafnir's FTL statement or Elma and Fafnir destroying Japan if they ever fought (which, as i understand it from your explanation, would fall under Environmental Destruction).

Your question had nothing to do with my claim, or this debate at all, it's pure red herring.

I said Tohru cannot be stopped by nuclear weapons because her durability overpowers them by a factor of a thousand. You suddenly asked which Island could take 1000 nukes and still exist, which is not what I said.

That's a strawman, YeahhBoyee. Not whatever you accused me, but this, is. My point was that Tohru is too strong for nuclear weapons to damage her. You want her to be above island level, shouldn't you just agree?

I said Tohru cannot be stopped by nuclear weapons because her durability overpowers them by a factor of a thousand.

Your exact quote is: "This is because there is nothing on Earth that can stop you, you already overpower nuclear weapons by a factor of a thousand by this point."

Either you were talking about power output and are walking back your statement or you worded that very weirdly. At this point i no longer care which one it is, i am just getting tired of writing paragraphs about this topic.

That's a strawman, YeahhBoyee. Not whatever you accused me, but this, is. My point was that Tohru is too strong for nuclear weapons to damage her. You want her to be above island level, shouldn't you just agree?

??? Bro you literally misquoted me earlier and now are saying you didn't strawman me. At least be man enough to admit it, or at the very minimum don't deny it. Jesus christ.

And i don't just "want" her to be above Island level, i just believe she is from the statements and context of the series. And i also would find it nice if her wiki page was accurate now that i've invested a lot more time into this than i thought i would so i wouldn't want her to be idk, Solar System level for some false made up reason the same way i don't think Tohru being 6-C is accurate. She literally has a feat where she blows up 3 Islands even if we low-ball that to the lowest degree and say they were right next to each other that still shows how much above 6-C she is and she's gotten massive powerups since then [went from slightly stronger than Ilulu to being vastly more powerful than her without even using her new Red form].

• Saying I'm ignorant in a subject that I have shown ignorance in, is offensive!

Not even going to address this. You lack knowledge on physics. That's a fact. If you're offended by this, stop acting like you know what you're talking about. I've effectively proven you don't.

• Do you honestly think Sun could take 30 thousand attacks that can destroy Jupiter???

Let's do a recap exercise.

You are possibly the most arrogant person i've ever had the displeasure of talking to online. And once again you just make up non-existent victories like "i've proven that you don't know anything about physics". When? When you pretended that i said Lightning was 1/3rd the speed of light in general and then corrected me on something i never said?

So... Yes, it [the sun] could take 30k attacks that destroyed Jupiter. Actually, it could take over two million of these attacks and still wouldn't overcome the amount of energy the Sun generates just by existing. Your problem is assuming damage is cumulative in a star, it is not.

I just want you to re-read what you stated. You are saying that two million attacks powerful enough to destroy, not the planetary surface of Jupiter, but just blow up the entire planet and overcoming its gravitational binding energy could be aimed at the sun and it would not destroy the sun.

The gravitational energy of the sun is indeed a lot bigger than Jupiter's (Mass is relative wow)

However, your post is ignoring the energy created by speed, if you were to for example launch Jupiter at the sun at the speed of light it would create enough energy to destroy the sun on its own. Seems you forgot velocity exists.

Mass of Jupiter: 1.898 × 10^27 kg

Velocity: 300000 km/s

Formula: 9,493e+26 x 300000000^2

KE = 8.5437e+46 J

GBE of Sun = 6.87E+41 J

Holy shit! The sun is gone.

Not even going to address this. You lack knowledge on physics. That's a fact. If you're offended by this, stop acting like you know what you're talking about. I've effectively proven you don't.

I never claimed to be a physics expert but im clearly better than you, and that's good enough for me.

You can misrepresent and strawman my argument as many times as you want.

My point still stands, Truth being a god is not the reason It is Universe+ level, It being the universe itself incarnate is. It being a god is just a fact that helps It be that tier without any contradictions because nobody would scale to It (and thus one couldn't use the character that scale as a contradiction for example)

Dragon Maid's God is simply a God and that's it. It has no feats at all.

You keep saying i strawmanned you and cannot name one example. Other than randomly asserting that you meant Tohru can tank nukes, when you literally said "Tohru overpowers nuclear bombs by a factor of 1000" when we were talking about how Tohru would destroy the earth. I don't even think you believe that's a strawman yourself. So go ahead, name one example of me ever strawmanning you.

Truth being the Universe itself is not an observed feat. We never saw a panel of Truth being the Universe. We have statements, and no contradictions to those statements. And Truth being the universe is very obviously related to Truth being the god of the FMA verse as Gods are usually the creator of the universe, and if you kill a verse's god their universe disappears etc.). There is no on-screen feat of Truth destroying or creating or being a universe.

On another note, this is directed at the wiki itself not you, Truth is not omniscient, part of its powers were stolen by the Homunculus because it got caught off-guard by its plans and it states that Edward Elric beat it at its own game by offering his gate. While i agree that Truth is overall 2-C, i am not sure why Truth is listed to be Omniscient when there's evidence to the contrary.

Dragon Maid's God, just like Truth, has no feats worthy of being 2-C or anything close. And that god is likely much, much weaker than Truth. However, she fought Jesus's father so at this point given that Jesus existence is confirmed by Tohru i could also go as far as to say that feats related to Christianity can also be added via Tohru's statement such as creating the world in seven days, everything stated in here. I have no interest in arguing this - i am just pointing out that via the same logic Truth, despite what you said, has been elevated into 2-C via statements that have no on-screen feats to support them.

Good thing Truth is not indexed as omnipotent, but as Low 2-C.

Yes i accidentally wrote omnipotent, i had to leave for work and did not have time to double-check everything i wrote

• Your random baseless claim that "island busters outpower nuclear bombs by a factor of 1000"

And you thought a refute would be pointing out that 1000 nukes would destroy an island? Again, that's just ignorance.

Overpowering something by a factor of a 1000 simply means you generate one thousand times the amount of energy that something generates.

Once again you randomly start talking about durability when you originally mentioned nukes in the context of proving Tohru can output enough energy to destroy the earth.

And what do you mean baseless? KLOL literally linked you to a Tohru calc where she takes 18 Gigatons of energy to her face and survives. The strongest nuke on the planet is Tsar Bomb with 50 Megatons.

Its 4.9 Gigatons since the shared feat is 9.8 Gigatons and half of it is her own energy. But i wouldn't expect you to be constrained by facts at this point.

But hell, even if we take your wrong number of 18 Gigatons. 50 Megatons x 1000= 50k Megatons or 50 Gigatons.

I guess Math is not your strong suit.

• When did you debunk Tohru referring to the celestial body

When I pointed none of the panels you posted prove that she was referring to one.
When I asked you for actual evidence or direct statements, and you ignored it, believing you've already achieved your burden of proof.

"World" is the single most ambiguous word when it comes to referring to a place, it can mean society, everything on the planet, or the celestial body. It cannot be used as concrete evidence for Tohru destroying the celestial body.

"Earth" can and has been used as synonymous to "World" before.

...why did you think i went over the trouble of translating the sentence in Japanese. It's referring to E A R T H, not the world, but the celestial body, at least in Telne's example. I am aware that the other statements can be interpreted in various ways, but at no point should it be synonymous with wiping out humanity because they are speaking of destroying the world itself, not society or humanity. It should at least be a planet surface type feat that they are talking about.

Skipping over the Truth arguments since i've already addressed them above.

I stated that Planet level needs to happen in one blow. None of the statements provided evidence of that.
I stated that world and Earth are not necessarily the celestial body. None of the statements are definitive on that.
Only then I explained how Tohru has no feats that come even close to this level and it would be a MASSIVE upgrade based on just ambiguous statements that don't define any tier at all due to a lack of a timeframe and true scope of destruction.

1) Im aware. I explained myself already in this reply, 3rd or 4th reply where i talk about that i didn't know that was a requirement when i made this OP's title and even asked you to tell me where it says that in the wiki. I do not believe Tohru can blow up the entire planet in one blow, but given Ilulu and comparatively super-weak dragons can already destroy earth im fairly certain she could destroy the planets surface in one attack [yes im aware theres no conclusive proof for that and i am not claiming there is], i have linked countless example of Tohrus insane range already and shes like 1000x stronger than Ilulu even in human form.

2) Telne's is definitive on it being Earth, as in the globe. Wheter you interpret that as Planet surface/Celestial body, up to you, and yes bro i know its not in one blow, i am sure as **** not saying any dragon in Dragon Maid could do it in one blow. In any case, destroying the planetary surface itself should be a lot higher than Island level since we are not talking about some example of Tohru running around for 1000 years but rather literally the immediate consequences/retaliation of fighting a faction, not a long-drawn out war or whatever you said in an earlier reply.

3) She has statements that are pretty definitively planetary at worst multi-continental.

Its similar to how Lord Boros claimed that he would evaporate the planetary surface in one blow, then never released that blow because he got neg-diffed by Saitama's Serious Punch. The Wiki did not need to see him actually do that and took his statement as proof he is Multi-Continental. Excerpt from the wiki:

"[Multi-Continental,] far higher with Collapsing Star Roaring Cannon (Expends all of his latent energy into an ultimate attack. Stated that this attack would be able to ruin the surface of Earth[2])"

I would never claim Tohru to be planetary by the standards of destroying the celestial body in one blow (again i made this post before i knew of the requirements for being 5-B), but she is able to destroy the planet ITSELF [Celestial/Surface/Continents?, its not specified] with relative ease, hell far weaker characters than her are stated to be able to do so.

Please do reply if you'd enjoy to be debunked again.

You went 1-3, lost on the Truth argument [still waiting on actual Truth feats], the physics argument and embarrassed yourself by not knowing basic math when talking about Tohru compared to nukes. The reason you got a point is because you were civil in comparison to your last reply, so that is appreciated.

Will be glad to destroy your arguments again so go ahead and reply. Do note that i work two jobs and even up until 4 am so give me like 1-2 days or so to get enough time to sit down and reply, i was late to work because of my last reply and can't really afford to do that again.

 

[Magicomethkuon]

Both sides could benefit from toning it down with the verbal jabs. You two agree that what we have isn't sufficient for the planetary tier upgrade. Looking at that and at staff feedback here, it's much more productive to move on instead of continuing a downward spiral of heated responses to each other.

I suggest focus on the ability additions. So far those were met with less refutation than the tiering. If not that, requesting closure to this thread might not be off the table because its main proposal was already rejected. Returning to it with evidence already evaluated won't change the outcome.

 

[YeahhBoyee]

Both sides could benefit from toning it down with the verbal jabs. You two agree that what we have isn't sufficient for the planetary tier upgrade. Looking at that and at staff feedback here, it's much more productive to move on instead of continuing a downward spiral of heated responses to each other.

I am all for closing this thread, him and me can continue this discussion in DMs, we dont need to ping everyone who followed it every time lol. And yeah im only fighting fire with fire there, you're correct, its not the right thing to do but im not gonna let some guy online call me an imbecile and remain polite

I suggest focus on the ability additions. So far those were met with less refutation than the tiering. If not that, requesting closure to this thread might not be off the table because its main proposal was already rejected. Returning to it with evidence already evaluated won't change the outcome.

And yeah some ability additions of Tohru (forgive me for not screenshotting im really tired but u can look it up or ask me for sources later)

-> Absorbing magic (when she absorbed all of a wizards magic permanently using a dragon ball)(Chapter 78)
-> Cloning magic (chapter 38)
-> Power bestowment (when she upgraded a cleaning bot to be able to wall-run and have super-speed)(Chapter 115)
-> Gender changing (said she can turn Kobayashi back into a woman after she has forcefully been turned into a man)(Chapter 37)
-> Mind reading for Fafnir (Chapter 101)
-> Weapon mastery (chapter 126) where Tohru was shown to master any weapon she tried pretty much instantly
-> i dont know how to describe it but Tohru broke into Kobayashis dream idk what thats called on the wiki
-> X-ray vision (chapter 3)
-> chapter 4/ep-1 of the anime she can bring things she recently destroyed back. either turning back time or, idk, regenerating them. i say turn back time because lucoa can do that.
-> sleeping magic (Chapter 81)
-> extremely good memory (chapter 86)
- creation magic (this one i did screenshot because it seems to be anything tohru can comprehend as long as its not some supernatural item)
-> sensing opponents power (like chapter 111 where she could tell immediately she was outmatched)

thats all i can think of on the spot thats not already on the wiki.

thanks

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

@The_Yellow_Topaz Please tone your hostile behaviour here, or you'll ended up being reported again and this time you will be banned, note that

 

[Dereck03]

@The_Yellow_Topaz Please tone your hostile behaviour here, or you'll ended up being reported again and this time you will be banned, note that

Tbh, both sides are being hostile towards each other, does it matter who started this hostile behaviour? Yes, but that doesn't mean both can keep with this tone.... They could have simply report this to RVT...

I am all for closing this thread, him and me can continue this discussion in DMs, we dont need to ping everyone who followed it every time lol. And yeah im only fighting fire with fire there, you're correct, its not the right thing to do but im not gonna let some guy online call me an imbecile and remain polite

Since OP said that the thread can be closed then i'll do so.