Watchmen CRT Part I: Timeline Split

[Ser_Hakim_Dayne]

In this CRT I just propose to separate the pages of Watchmen characters into three timelines/versions:

- OG Timeline: Only things written by Alan Moore, so Watchmen and Watchmen Companion.

- DC Timeline: The comics Before The Watchmen, Watchmen and Doomsday Clock.

- HBO Timeline: Watchmen, the 2019 TV series and the Rorschach comic.

Edit: There is also the 2009 live action adaptation

Edit 2: Watchmen 2009 also has a video game prequel and a book companion.

 

[Damage3245]

Shouldn't there be a fourth one acknowledged for the 2009 movie?

 

[Ser_Hakim_Dayne]

Shouldn't there be a fourth one acknowledged for the 2009 movie?

Yes, I forgot about the adaptations.

 

[Osemere]

Agree. Should have been done years ago

 

[Antvasima]

This seems fine to me.

 

[Ser_Hakim_Dayne]

Shouldn't there be a fourth one acknowledged for the 2009 movie?

This seems fine to me.

Applied

 

[Da3ggman]

Looks good to me.

 

[Cropfist]

I don't see why three separate verse pages are needed for the same overall story.

 

[Da3ggman]

I don't see why three separate verse pages are needed for the same overall story.

Because they have different stuff in each of them?

The DC version does follow the same story as the original comics, but it also adds a bunch of new story and scaling slop coming from being retconned into the canon DC multiverse. Additionally, Alan Moore, the original writer and creator of Watchmen, infamously hates the run, and thinks it’s a disservice to all his characters involved by unnecessarily slapping them into a place they were never meant to be, so including it in a profile with his work kind of seems disrespectful and against his intent.

The HBO timeline adds a whole bunch of stuff that was never in the original comics, and generally has some changes made due to creative decisions done by the directors and writers it.

The live action timeline is about the closest you’re going to get to being “the same story”, but even it deserves to be its own thing due to how different a lot of the characters are in their motives, beliefs, and appearance.

Like, take Rorschach for instance. In the movie, he’s more of a rational, middle ground, hard morals kind of guy. In the comics, he’s a crazing racist, sexist sociopath who hardly cares for what is right and wrong as long as he finds out what is going on. I love both versions, but they’re obviously very different.

They’re all different adaptations and interpretations, and should be treated that way, instead of some weird, contradictory homunculus.

 

[Rangoon04]

Because they have different stuff in each of them?

The DC version does follow the same story as the original comics, but it also adds a bunch of new story and scaling slop coming from being retconned into the canon DC multiverse. Additionally, Alan Moore, the original writer and creator of Watchmen, infamously hates the run, and thinks it’s a disservice to all his characters involved by unnecessarily slapping them into a place they were never meant to be, so including it in a profile with his work kind of seems disrespectful and against his intent.

The HBO timeline adds a whole bunch of stuff that was never in the original comics, and generally has some changes made due to creative decisions done by the directors and writers it.

The live action timeline is about the closest you’re going to get to being “the same story”, but even it deserves to be its own thing due to how different a lot of the characters are in their motives, beliefs, and appearance.

Like, take Rorschach for instance. In the movie, he’s more of a rational, middle ground, hard morals kind of guy. In the comics, he’s a crazing racist, sexist sociopath who hardly cares for what is right and wrong as long as he finds out what is going on. I love both versions, but they’re obviously very different.

They’re all different adaptations and interpretations, and should be treated that way, instead of some weird, contradictory homunculus.

A lot of how Watchmen, especially Manhattan, have been incorporated into DC has been really unnecessary and lame. Why did Jon get lumped in with cosmic Dark Multiverse Crisis Mobius Chair Perpetua powerscaling nonsense for anything other than fanservice? who knows

I'm no authority here but for all practical intents at least, this is completely warranted

 

[Da3ggman]

Oh yeah, I guess we should talk about what to do with Before Watchmen.

For the uninformed, it was a prequel series made by DC that’s meant to help expand the universe of Watchmen, while staying within the original universe.

Personally? I think they’re fine to use. They weren’t written by Alan Moore, but apparently Watchmen’s co-creator and artist Matt Gibbons gave the writer’s his blessing to do it. This is notable because he has been harsh on things like Doomsday Clock like Moore, going so far as to almost never speak of it, even in interviews when asked, so I’d say it’s pretty significant. They also don’t contradict anything from the og comics, and as stated previously, do remain mostly faithful to their vision.

What do you all think? If we don’t accept them, then it’d add another extra set of profiles we’d have to index, since they do add significant things that I’d be down to explain in a CRT or something.

 

[Ser_Hakim_Dayne]

I don't see why three separate verse pages are needed for the same overall story.

Watchmen 2019 and Doomsday Clock are both sequels to Watchmen 1986 but cannot be canon to each other because they tell a completely different story. For example, in Watchmen 2019 Ozymandias's plan was not revealed and Dr. Manhattan went to Europa (a moon of Jupiter), while in Doomsday Clock Ozymandias's plan was revealed and Dr. Manhattan went to the DC Multiverse caused the New 52 or something like that.

Which already gives us two timelines, that of DC and HBO.

Before the Watchmen is in the DC timeline because the 2019 HBO series does not take into account the events of Before The Watchmen (for example, Hooded Justice was murdered in Before The Watchmen while in Watchmen 2019 he is still alive decades later).

The Rorschach comic refers to the events of HBO so it is in the HBO timeline.

The OG Timeline only contains Watchmen 1986 and Watchmen Companion because those are the only things written by Alan Moore. I added this timeline to respect Alan Moore's wishes (who didn't want Watchmen to have any sequel or spin-off) and because DC and HBO took some liberties with the original comic and therefore have contradictions with it.

but apparently Watchmen’s co-creator and artist Matt Gibbons gave the writer’s his blessing to do it.

Yeah but he doesn't really consider it canon tho:

The original series of Watchmen is the complete story that Alan Moore and I wanted to tell. However, I appreciate DC's reasons for this initiative and the wish of the artists and writers involved to pay tribute to our work. May these new additions have the success they desire

They also don’t contradict anything from the og comics, and as stated previously, do remain mostly faithful to their vision.

I've heard the opposite. For example, in Before the Watchmen, the Comedian didn't kill JFK and Hooded Justice, while Alan Moore clearly implied the opposite in what he wrote. Another example, in Before the Watchmen Nite Owl we see Rorscach kill while in Watchmen he clearly says that during his team-up with Nite Owl II at the time he was "soft" and left the criminals alive.

What do you all think? If we don’t accept them, then it’d add another extra set of profiles we’d have to index, since they do add significant things that I’d be down to explain in a CRT or something.

I think it's better to do as I suggested in my post, that way everyone is happy.

 

[Ser_Hakim_Dayne]

I don't see why three separate verse pages are needed for the same overall story.

No need to make separate verse pages for this case btw, but we need separate characters pages.

 

[Ser_Hakim_Dayne]

Edit: There is also the 2009 live action adaptation

Edit 2: Watchmen 2009 also has a video game prequel.

I also added the video game and the companion book for the Watchmen 2009 timeline.

I also realized one thing, there is no calc for Watchmen yet.

 

[Da3ggman]

Would we also add another version for the animated adaptation that came out last year? Honestly, I’m thinking it might be easier to just have 1 or 2 profiles for characters with keys that show the various timelines that stem off of the original.

 

[Ser_Hakim_Dayne]

Would we also add another version for the animated adaptation that came out last year?

If there are notable differences feats wise, yeah.

Honestly, I’m thinking it might be easier to just have 1 or 2 profiles for characters with keys that show the various timelines that stem off of the original.

Maybe yes, but we would need to get other people's opinions to know. Either we make different pages for each timeline, or we make a single page but with keys to separate the timelines as you said.
What is certain is that the 2009 and 2024 adaptations will have their own profiles.

Also, I only have knowledge of OG Watchmen, so I couldn't contribute to profiles or keys for other timelines (especially DC's since cosmology is involved in Manhattan's feats)