When you learn how to overcome your weakness - DBS's lifting strength and heat resistance

[Rabbit2002]

Stellar level Lifting strength
In DBS Anime, base Goku (TOP saga) and 17/18 can withstand the weight/gravity of "Pretty Black Hole". However, it doesn't matter whether this black hole is real or not. The important thing is that the Black Hole with its pure weight crushed Kami Katchin. Goku's profile is weird considering this as AP universal buster or something which has absolutely nothing to do with Lifting strength. And Kami Katchin has a hardness that far surpasses that of Katchin which is so hard that the gohan with the Z sword couldn't cut through it, but instead caused the sword to break. It has been rated a Feat "At least Large Star, possibly far higher" by the wiki and "Pretty Black Hole" crushed it with nothing more than its pure weight. Unless I'm wrong here, this probably qualifies for Stellar or maybe Multi Stellar lifting strength because it can destroy Objects that can withstand forces far beyond Large Star baseline level by its weight alone. This is impossible with any lower weight (Black hole itself heavier than star). In addition, the black hole also warps space through its pure gravity, preventing Goku from teleporting out
And Ssj Blue Goku is completely unaffected by that black hole, even destroying it with a Kamehameha blow (it would grant soild "Non physical interaction" because it's "mass of gravity", since goku could interact with others as Abstract will of IZ, Hit's attack)
This will also scale to anyone as strong as or stronger than Blue Goku (TOP saga). However it's just the anime version, the manga version is not related and scale to (thankfully we don't have the feat ssj vegeta can't lift more than 1000 tons in anime lol). Of course it also grants them an insane degree of resistance to gravity manipulation

Resistance to Extreme Heat


Upgrade Brolly (DBS) and Gogeta (DBS) resistance to extremely high heat to the level of Sun's Surface . And Beerus, whis to the level of Earth's core, Other gods of destruction and Angels can also scale to them.
And in movie 9, Bojack and all of his minions are said to be sealed in the core of a star and completely unaffected by its Heat in Years if not thousands years

Spoiler

"Many years have passed since Bojack was imprisoned in the heart of a star by the Kais as punishment for his despicable ways. But an unforeseen event broke Bojack free of his stellar lockdown. Now he is back to avenge himself and to continue his ultimate desire... subjugating the entire universe! His first task? Take over the interstellar martial arts tournament and take out Earth's top fighters

Dragon Ball Z: Bojack Unbound

Dragon Ball Z: Bojack Unbound (ドラゴンボールＺゼット 銀ぎん河がギリギリ！！ぶっちぎりの凄すごい奴やつ, Doragon Bōru Zetto Ginga Giri-Giri!! Butchigiri no Sugoi Yatsu, lit. Dragon Ball Z: The Galaxy at the Brink!! The Super Incredible Guy), also known as Dragon Ball Z: Super Guy in the Galaxy, is the twelfth Dragon Ball film and...

dragonball.fandom.com

I can't find an official source for it currently (great thanks if anyone can provide it), however if the feat is accepted, it's not just him and his minions scaling to, but even Fu (DBH) because he has Bojack's cells and generic data in his body, heck even Xeno Vegito can burn him via Ki, making him feel Hot . This can also grant Fire manipulation and/or Extreme high Heat manipulation (at very least 15 millions Kevin), also Resistance to it since he completely unaffected by heat of his ki (Also it's passive since it surround his hand, affect anything it touch)

 

[Thelastmlg]

while i agree that attack feels like a real black hole, you are comparing AP to LS there, is not how it works.

I'd say list everything they say about it that would make it qualify as a legit black hole, might help, last i checked we are very lenient on dbs LS because they are so strong any feat we calc ends up being worhless next arc and so.

We don't use scrapped ideas for the profiles.


Whis and beerus seem fine.

Yeah would be good if we had the source of it, but wasn't him sealed on king kai's planet?

 

[Rabbit2002]

.

Yeah would be good if we had the source of it, but wasn't him sealed on king kai's planet?

It is stated that King Kai's death caused the seal to be broken. The place where Bojack is sealed is stated to be at the end of the galaxy/universe or something like that

while i agree that attack feels like a real black hole, you are comparing AP to LS there, is not how it works.

I'd say list everything they say about it that would make it qualify as a legit black hole, might help, last i checked we are very lenient on dbs LS because they are so strong any feat we calc ends up being worhless next arc and so.

As for lifting strength and AP, I'm not comparing them here, just in case. It does the feat via pure Mass/weight, not through any other way. Of course I would also be fine with it being considered a legit black hole and the achievement of destroying the kami Katchin can be seen as a support for it.

 

[Vietthai96]

while i agree that attack feels like a real black hole, you are comparing AP to LS there, is not how it works.

I'd say list everything they say about it that would make it qualify as a legit black hole, might help, last i checked we are very lenient on dbs LS because they are so strong any feat we calc ends up being worhless next arc and so.

We don't use scrapped ideas for the profiles.

While cinematic is the last thing we should talk about, the attack itself actually show a constant downward pressure on Goku and two Androids, and Goku actually need to exert his strength to stand up. And the attack itself actually crushing the floor itself. I failed to see how this is just AP feat

 

[Quantu]

I made a thread about the black hole a few years ago and it got rejected. Idk what the specifics were but there were definitely properties of a black hole in it. Some even questioned if it even qualifies as lifting strength at all.

If it does potentially qualify, even if barely, perhaps "Unknown, possibly Pre/Multi Stellar (whichever it is)" with an explanation?

https://vsbattles.com/threads/dragon-ball-lifting-strength-staff-only.14841/

 

[Rabbit2002]

I made a thread about the black hole a few years ago and it got rejected. Idk what the specifics were but there were definitely properties of a black hole in it. Some even questioned if it even qualifies as lifting strength at all.

If it does potentially qualify, even if barely, perhaps "Unknown, possibly Pre/Multi Stellar (whichever it is)" with an explanation?

https://vsbattles.com/threads/dragon-ball-lifting-strength-staff-only.14841/

It's too old and can be extremely outdated. Like how the current wiki allows Roshi's moon level feat while denying it as outlier before
However personally I am currently quite against it being a Legit Black hole (how can you crush something much harder than a star only with a mass less than the sun?)

 

[Vietthai96]

However personally I am currently quite against it being a Legit Black hole (how can you crush something much harder than a star only with a mass less than the sun?)

What, no, where it is stated that the attack have mass less than the sun??

 

[Rabbit2002]

What, no, where it is stated that the attack have mass less than the sun??

No, I mean if we assume it's a legitimate black hole it would have mass less than the sun (so "Pre stellar"), making it completely impossible to annihilate/crush Katchin let alone Kami Katchin just via gravity and weight

 

[Quantu]

I think you should get some staff input for this to go anywhere.

 

[Nullflowerblush]

Crushing a Star level obstruct does not entail Stellar Lifting Strength.

1. Energy and force are not the same thing.
2. This is fiction.

 

[Greenshifter]

Best we can do here is assume the “pretty cure black hole” is more dense than a neutron star. That might actually get us somewhere.

 

[Golden_Void]

Katchi katchin is harder than the hardest metal in Universe 7, which is harder than the hardest metal on Earth, which is tungsten. This website by a tungsten company states tungsten has a tensile strength of 100,000 - 500,000 psi at room temperature. These numbers mean the amount of pressure that can be applied to one square inch of tungsten before it reaches deformation.

The neat thing about gravity is its omnipresence, applying itself in every direction. We know the PBH attack overcame the tensile strength of katchi katchin since it was sinking through the stage, but we also know this same downward pressure was being applied evenly across Goku's body. Using this calculator and assuming Goku is at least 180 pounds, and we know that he is 5'9, the surface area of his body is about 3056.25 square inches. Force = pressure x area so doing the math for both ranges gives us 3.056e8 - 1.528e9 pounds of gravitational force being applied on Goku which he stands up through in base form.

That's 152,800 - 764,000 tons. If that can't be used for whatever reason then the feat likely can't be used for anything. The result should likely be multiplied by ten since each fighter has their home planet's respective gravity applied to them. Planet Vegeta is 10x. So multiply that by 10.

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

Katchi katchin is harder than the hardest metal in Universe 7, which is harder than the hardest metal on Earth, which is tungsten. This website by a tungsten company states tungsten has a tensile strength of 100,000 - 500,000 psi at room temperature. These numbers mean the amount of pressure that can be applied to one square inch of tungsten before it reaches deformation.

The neat thing about gravity is its omnipresence, applying itself in every direction. We know the PBH attack overcame the tensile strength of katchi katchin since it was sinking through the stage, but we also know this same downward pressure was being applied evenly across Goku's body. Using this calculator and assuming Goku is at least 180 pounds, and we know that he is 5'9, the surface area of his body is about 3056.25 square inches. Force = pressure x area so doing the math for both ranges gives us 3.056e8 - 1.528e9 pounds of gravitational force being applied on Goku which he stands up through in base form.

That's 152,800 - 764,000 tons. If that can't be used for whatever reason then the feat likely can't be used for anything. The result should likely be multiplied by ten since each fighter has their home planet's respective gravity applied to them. Planet Vegeta is 10x. So multiply that by 10.

That's garbage, that's Class K, Class M with the multiplier. Thanks for this.

 

[sanicspood]

class m is consistent it seems

 

[Golden_Void]

That's garbage, that's Class K, Class M with the multiplier. Thanks for this.

Just over Class G on the high-end with the multiplier. Class T as SSB, still Class T even with SSB KKx20, potentially higher with MUI.

 

[Quantu]

Realistically, Star level lifting for Dragon Ball characters just doesn't fit anyway. I think the above would be more consistent

 

[Greenshifter]

Just over Class G on the high-end with the multiplier. Class T as SSB, still Class T even with SSB KKx20, potentially higher with MUI.

I’m not sure if we can apply the multipliers to LS. If we could Goku would have much higher LS than Class G before the feat in question.

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

I’m not sure if we can apply the multipliers to LS. If we could Goku would have much higher LS than Class G before the feat in question.

Goku can reach pre stellar with only multipliers if we use his class K feat in DB. But the feat seems like a huge outlier tbh unfortunately.

 

[SirAlex09]

Disagree. We don't use multiplier on LS due to inconstistancy reasons. Also there are too many anti feats ( which can be debunked but Staff doesn't accept it anyway, so it's waste of time)

We should wait until there are actual lifting feats like when Vegeta redirected a thrown space ship with his fingers in the manga

 

[Golden_Void]

I’m not sure if we can apply the multipliers to LS. If we could Goku would have much higher LS than Class G before the feat in question.

That's how it works in-series when he transforms into SSJ on King Kai's planet to overcome the weight he didn't lift in base form.

 

[Greenshifter]

That's how it works in-series when he transforms into SSJ on King Kai's planet to overcome the weight he didn't lift in base form.

Sure but linearly with AP?

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

Sure but linearly with AP?

It is linear with AP. But it's too inconsistent to use.

 

[Quantu]

Why not have his lifting strength be conservative, like, take the most concrete lifting feat in Super and put it as "at least Class _, likely higher. Far higher with transformations", no matter how low _ is

 

[Greenshifter]

It is linear with AP. But it's too inconsistent to use.

What’s the inconsistency? I mean the dude essentially stood up in what was supposed to be a black hole that was crushing a newly invented material that doesn’t break as easily as any other material in the verse, it doesn’t get much heavier than that feat-wise (sadly it’s hard to quantify).

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

Why not have his lifting strength be conservative, like, take the most concrete lifting feat in Super and put it as "at least Class _, likely higher. Far higher with transformations", no matter how low _ is

It is embarrassing when your favourite characters are universe busters but can't lift buildings. 23rd Goku was having trouble with 113 kg. 113 kg. Post namek vegeta was having trouble with 16 tons and buu saga Goku couldn't lift 40 tons, the worst thing is it's consistent. Kid goku has a 500000 ton feat. Bruh moment. Super goku has various class M calcs but the verse caps at class in SSB with that black hole feat as just calced. Yet the verse is supposed to be pre stellar with multipliers, it's just not consistent.

What’s the inconsistency? I mean the dude essentially stood up in what was supposed to be a black hole that was crushing a newly invented material that doesn’t break as easily as any other material in the verse, it doesn’t get much heavier than that feat-wise (sadly it’s hard to quantify).

Read rhe above.

 

[Greenshifter]

It is embarrassing when your favourite characters are universe busters but can't lift buildings. 23rd Goku was having trouble with 113 kg. 113 kg. Post namek vegeta was having trouble with 16 tons and buu saga Goku couldn't lift 40 tons, the worst thing is it's consistent. Kid goku has a 500000 ton feat. Bruh moment. Super goku has various class M calcs but the verse caps at class in SSB with that black hole feat as just calced. Yet the verse is supposed to be pre stellar with multipliers, it's just not consistent.

Read rhe above.

So 3 (ridiculously low) anti-feats vs numerous feats that are way higher?

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

So 3 (ridiculously low) anti-feats vs numerous feats that are way higher?

The high feats are very unimpressive compared to what the barebones multipliers yield.

 

[Greenshifter]

The high feats are very unimpressive compared to what the barebones multipliers yield.

Ok, but if your counterarguments are anti-feats which are outliers. Then why would you even consider them for your multiplier argument?

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

Ok, but if your counterarguments are anti-feats which are outliers. Then why would you even consider them for your multiplier argument?

Because we can get the characters to pre stellar with multipliers yet their biggest feat ever is class G barely along side those tons of anti feats which are just as much as the actual feats btw, the actual feats like I said are literally nothing compared to what they are with multipliers.
To make it simple, the problem with multipliers is it inflates the ratings extremely, it's the same case with speed. The problem is speed has no anti feats making it totally fine to use the multipliers without feats. But in the case of LS, it has tons of inconsistencies and anti feats making the already doubted multipliers less credible.
Of course in my opinion, I have absolutely no problem using multipliers, in fact, look.
https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:FluffyCreatureZ/Son_Goku_(Dragon_Ball_Super)

 

[KLOL506]

Just over Class G on the high-end with the multiplier. Class T as SSB, still Class T even with SSB KKx20, potentially higher with MUI.

PAIN

 

[Quantu]

Anyone who has watched and read all of DB, DBZ, DBGT, DBSuper and thinks Goku can lift stars at this point in time is kidding themselves tbh. No amount of Calc on whatever clip can change that.

Hopefully in the future it's possible, I mean pre DBS, Universal Goku was laughable and calling Goku anything higher than FTL+ at best was "edgy". Goku could be bench pressing the Super Dragon Balls in the next few years for all we know

 

[Vizer04]

Goku could be bench pressing the Super Dragon Balls in the next few years for all we know

That would be neat

 

[Vizer04]

Let's face it, DB will be stuck in Class M forever and there's nothing we can do about it...

 

[Golden_Void]

Even using the feat where the GoDs are casually slinging slabs of the stuff around fixing the tournament is useless.