Yogiri's immortality negations removal

[SweetDao]

Seems self-evident, but I'll make a list just in case. Currently, Yogiri's profile states the following:

Immortality Negation (All Types)

Feels a bit weird to state it like this but oh well, here's why almost all of "immortality negations" should be removed:

Immortality Type 1 : He just kills someone with eternal life, not a negation.

Immortality Type 2 : Same as above, killing someone because you dealt more damage he could sustain isn't negation.

Immortality Type 3 : He erases an aspect deeper than what everyone can regenerate in the verse, so I would be inclined to remove it. If anything, it was shown that people can still regenerate part of the body Yogurt kills. Like him killing the ears/eyes of the beastman, and yet they could still be regenerated, same with Shion.

Immortality type 4 : Same as above. Therefore, making the character "not resurrect" as a result. However, maybe he can still get the negation thanks to this.

Immortality type 5 : Probably comes from the Gods' justification. I personally don't think that "killing someone who, upon death, has to wait X times before coming back in the world" count as type 5 in the first place, let alone negation for Yogiri. If anything, that's just an application of his power + negation of type 4.

Immortality type 6 : He kills something deeper, so not really a negation either. If anything, it's range.

Immortality type 7 : He kills something deeper + killing zombies isn't really immortality 7 negation.

Immortality type 8 : He kills something deeper + I think it's related to the sage's stone? Well, in any case, as shown in the verse, if he kills a Sage, the stone gets killed too, so that's not immortality negation.

Immortality type 9 : He kills something deeper + range. I think it's related to Lain's clones and her true form, which indeed was located in a "separate, isolated space", but Yogiri could kill her due to one of the clones having a connection with the main body.

Personally, I feel only the type 4 is warranted, perhaps type 5/8 too if someone can make a sound argument, I'm fine if that's the case since the rest is pretty self-explanatory.

Agree : Dark_Soul20189, Grabbing_dragon, Da3ggman, Tank1418, Frey_Starlight, Napoleonic01, sukuna171, VoidGoji, PrinceofPein, Keeweed, Violatas, FinePoint (fine with 4, 5 and 8), Celestial_Pegasus (fine with everything?), Robo432343, ExcelsisBerny, Legacy30, The_golden_and_silver_house94, Shar122, Theglassman12

Disagree :

Neutral :

 

[Dark_Soul20189]

Looks good, I agree. Nuke everything

 

[Mizuki67]

What's next, downgrade yogiri name?

 

[SweetDao]

What's next, downgrade yogiri name?

perhaps

 

[Grabbing_dragon]

Yeah, agreed, nuke it all.

, maybe he can still get the negation thanks to this.

It would not be a negation, since it is a rule/law limited to the verse.

Similar to this, vanishing from existence means your soul vanishes by default as well, since it is part of the laws of the verse, which you can't apply to other verses.

 

[SweetDao]

It would not be a negation, since it is a rule/law limited to the verse.

Yes and no. Technically, that specific law can be instigated even in a world where it wasn't present. Like Mitsuki explain, that law appeared the moment Yogiri entered in his world, so I'd say it's fine. Obviously, Yogiri's power is limited to his cosmology, but assuming in a versus, it should be fine to assume he could imo.

 

[Grabbing_dragon]

Yes and no. Technically, that specific law can be instigated even in a world where it wasn't present. Like Mitsuki explain, that law appeared the moment Yogiri entered in his world, so I'd say it's fine. Obviously, Yogiri's power is limited to his cosmology, but assuming in a versus, it should be fine to assume he could imo.

I see, then I am fine with Type 4 negation with the new justification.

 

[Da3ggman]

Oh I am LOVING all of these Yogiri downgrades, keep them up!

Yeah, nuke everything except Type 4.

 

[Grabbing_dragon]

I see, then I am fine with Type 4 negation with the new justification.

Never mind, I still disagree with Type 4 negation , as it is not Yogiri's power that negates the immortality, but rather the rule itself. Like when it is removed, they will be able to come back to life, as the scan said, and Yogiri is trying to kill them before that.

 

[Tank1418]

Burn all of them except immortal type 4

 

[SweetDao]

Never mind, I still disagree with Type 4 negation , as it is not Yogiri's power that negates the immortality, but rather the rule itself. Like when it is removed, they will be able to come back to life, as the scan said, and Yogiri is trying to kill them before that.

Nah, it's Mitsuki who wants to kill Yogiri so that (hopefully) when he dies, he'll be able to rewind time/ressurect them.

And yeah, but the rule is kinda a perk of being Yogiri, so I don't think we should separate it, although if some staff says otherwise, ig it's fine.

 

[Frey_Starlight]

i am fine with all to be removed, but that type 4 can just be passive law manipulation?

 

[SweetDao]

i am fine with all to be removed, but that type 4 can just be passive law manipulation?

I guess it could too, but that would still effectively negate immo type 4 ig?

 

[Napoleonic01]

Nuke it all

 

[Grabbing_dragon]

Nah, it's Mitsuki who wants to kill Yogiri so that (hopefully) when he dies, he'll be able to rewind time/ressurect them.

I read it in a rush due to being busy with some RL stuff now.

And yeah, but the rule is kinda a perk of being Yogiri, so I don't think we should separate it, although if some staff says otherwise, ig it's fine.

i am fine with all to be removed, but that type 4 can just be passive law manipulation?

I'm fine with limited passive law manipulation that negates Type 4 immortality. The reason for "limited" is because it applies to only one law.

 

[sukuna171]

Makes sense, I agree—funny how the gods have become more overpowered than yogiri

 

[Violatas]

Immortality Type 1 : He just kills someone with eternal life, not a negation.

Immortality Type 2 : Same as above, killing someone because you dealt more damage he could sustain isn't negation.

Immortality Type 3 : He erases an aspect deeper than what everyone can regenerate in the verse, so I would be inclined to remove it. If anything, it was shown that people can still regenerate part of the body Yogurt kills. Like him killing the ears/eyes of the beastman, and yet they could still be regenerated, same with Shion.

Immortality type 4 : Same as above. Therefore, making the character "not resurrect" as a result. However, maybe he can still get the negation thanks to this.

Immortality type 5 : Probably comes from the Gods' justification. I personally don't think that "killing someone who, upon death, has to wait X times before coming back in the world" count as type 5 in the first place, let alone negation for Yogiri. If anything, that's just an application of his power + negation of type 4.

Immortality type 6 : He kills something deeper, so not really a negation either. If anything, it's range.

Immortality type 7 : He kills something deeper + killing zombies isn't really immortality 7 negation.

Immortality type 8 : He kills something deeper + I think it's related to the sage's stone? Well, in any case, as shown in the verse, if he kills a Sage, the stone gets killed too, so that's not immortality negation.

Immortality type 9 : He kills something deeper + range. I think it's related to Lain's clones and her true form, which indeed was located in a "separate, isolated space", but Yogiri could kill her due to one of the clones having a connection with the main body.

Personally, I feel only the type 4 is warranted, perhaps type 5/8 too if someone can make a sound argument, I'm fine if that's the case since the rest is pretty self-explanatory.

With all the examples given above this feels straightforward. Agreeeed

 

[VoidGoji]

Agreed, could keep type 4 as "possibly Immortality Negation (type 4) via Law Manipulation", or just remove the possibly

 

[PrinceofPein]

Looks okay

 

[Keeweed]

Funnily enough I wanted to make this very thread. Type 4 looks fine but everything absolutely should go, exactly like everyone else is saying.

 

[FinePoint]

"All Types" is definitely not right.

Type 4 is definitely fine.

I'm also fine with Type 5 and 8, but don't have a particularly strong opinion on it.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Thread seems fine to me.

 

[Robo432343]

i agree
as my mod input has been given this thread can be closed now

 

[Gewsbumpz_dude]

Honest to god, where are all the supporters of this verse? It just seems like they all disappeared once all these downgrades started occuring.

Seems fine I suppose, might change my vote later if better arguments appear... very distant possibility but a possibility regardless.

 

[ExcelsisBerny]

I agree. Good job SweetDao.

 

[PHANtomFELdway]

Seems self-evident, but I'll make a list just in case. Currently, Yogiri's profile states the following:

Feels a bit weird to state it like this but oh well, here's why almost all of "immortality negations" should be removed:

Immortality Type 1 : He just kills someone with eternal life, not a negation.

Immortality Type 2 : Same as above, killing someone because you dealt more damage he could sustain isn't negation.

Immortality Type 3 : He erases an aspect deeper than what everyone can regenerate in the verse, so I would be inclined to remove it. If anything, it was shown that people can still regenerate part of the body Yogurt kills. Like him killing the ears/eyes of the beastman, and yet they could still be regenerated, same with Shion.

I don’t think this is related since his powers as far as I am aware never killed the body itself, it killed thier function. Such as sight or hearing.when he does kill, no regen or resurrection works.

Immortality type 4 : Same as above. Therefore, making the character "not resurrect" as a result. However, maybe he can still get the negation thanks to this.

Immortality type 5 : Probably comes from the Gods' justification. I personally don't think that "killing someone who, upon death, has to wait X times before coming back in the world" count as type 5 in the first place, let alone negation for Yogiri. If anything, that's just an application of his power + negation of type 4.

It comes from that girl that was exempt from the concept of death.

Immortality type 6 : He kills something deeper, so not really a negation either. If anything, it's range.

He just can’t kill this at all unless it is all at once which isn’t negation. Izelda just kept switching.

Immortality type 7 : He kills something deeper + killing zombies isn't really immortality 7 negation.

Immortality type 8 : He kills something deeper + I think it's related to the sage's stone? Well, in any case, as shown in the verse, if he kills a Sage, the stone gets killed too, so that's not immortality negation.

This prob still counts since he kills the thing granting it. Idk though

Immortality type 9 : He kills something deeper + range. I think it's related to Lain's clones and her true form, which indeed was located in a "separate, isolated space", but Yogiri could kill her due to one of the clones having a connection with the main body.

I could be wrong. But I am like pretty sure she died even with no connection. And the only clone that survived was cause she was essentially a whole different person.

Personally, I feel only the type 4 is warranted, perhaps type 5/8 too if someone can make a sound argument, I'm fine if that's the case since the rest is pretty self-explanatory.

Agree :

Disagree :

Neutral :

 

[SweetDao]

I don’t think this is related since his powers as far as I am aware never killed the body itself, it killed thier function. Such as sight or hearing.when he does kill, no regen or resurrection works.

His power kills the magical power that correspond to a certain part of their body (in that precise instance). The regeneration (up to High or something like that) works. Him killing the "concept of the eyes of the beastman" is him erasing something deeper than no one can regenerate from. To be a negation, Lain should've shown to be able to regenerate magical power.

It comes from that girl that was exempt from the concept of death.

This comes from this I guess? I don't think it's literal tbf, I HIGHLY doubt that Ryousuke truly understand what it means to be "beyond the concept of death". If anything, he just saw Yama (which is a god name, mind you, but since there is no confirmation of her status I'll not take it into account) being the "immortal queen" and assumed

Edit: I'll also add that the very same verbiage was used for Gods and, obviously, they aren't type 5.

she just can't die. Though reading the type 5 explanation:

5: Deathless Immortality: Characters who exist unbound by conventional life or death, or do not exist at all, and thus cannot be traditionally killed. Typically, abilities such as Existence Erasure are needed to destroy them.

It's a bit like "doing something beyond what they can tank" so, again, I'm unsure if that can be considered immo type 5.

He just can’t kill this at all unless it is all at once which isn’t negation. Izelda just kept switching.

So you agree ig?

This prob still counts since he kills the thing granting it. Idk though

Ehhhh, idk, again, since he kills something deeper... That's like saying you'll be immortal as long as that chair isn't destroyed, but I erase your concept. It's not really "negating" your immortality, it's just circumventing it by targeting something deeper. However, if it was shown that you could regenerate from that degree of erasure thanks to that immortality, then yeah I would've been fine, but right now I don't think so.

I could be wrong. But I am like pretty sure she died even with no connection. And the only clone that survived was cause she was essentially a whole different person.

Here.

 

[Legacy30]

Pookie on his generational run to downgrade yogurt into oblivion
You can put me down as agree

 

[The_golden_and_silver_house94]

Looks okay

 

[SweetDao]

Bump

 

[The_golden_and_silver_house94]

Bump

 

[Shar122]

I agree.
Nuke it all ofc except for type 4.

 

[Secimatar]

I overall agree with this. Shouldn't his type 7 stay cuz he was able to kill undeads and the commander also emphasised that how can something that is already dead die to which yugiri's reply was something like "if it is walking its alive for me" ?

 

[SweetDao]

Shouldn't his type 7 stay cuz he was able to kill undeads and the commander also emphasised that how can something that is already dead die to which yugiri's reply was something like "if it is walking its alive for me" ?

The way his power work is what matters. I think you agree that those undead weren't "physically alive", so what he did was just kill the "magical power" that made them alive. See it as erasing the concept/soul of each individual undead, if that can help you picture it better. Overall, he can still kill undead, by all means, just not "negate the immortality 7?"

 

[SweetDao]

"All Types" is definitely not right.

Type 4 is definitely fine.

I'm also fine with Type 5 and 8, but don't have a particularly strong opinion on it.

Since I have one staff accepting everything (keeping only type 4) and you accepting type 4 alongside 5 and 8, should I only keep type 4 on the profile or put "Type 4, possibly type 5 and 8" instead?
Or maybe just wait for another staff input?

 

[FinePoint]

Since I have one staff accepting everything (keeping only type 4) and you accepting type 4 alongside 5 and 8, should I only keep type 4 on the profile or put "Type 4, possibly type 5 and 8" instead?
Or maybe just wait for another staff input?

Should probably get some more input.

 

[SweetDao]

bump

 

[Theglassman12]

Type 4 looks fine, the rest can be removed yeah.

 

[SweetDao]

Should probably get some more input.

What about now, dear FinePoint sir ?

 

[FinePoint]

What about now, dear FinePoint sir ?

It seems like just Type 4 is probably best then, and can probably be applied.