Yu Yu Hakusho downgrade

[Joseph619]

I am seeing a lot of YYH character being exaggerated to crazy proportion, base on nothing but hype statements. Those statements that are NOT backed up by any feats.

Example, Sensui being a destroyer of the world[1] That is the same as Whitebeard being able to destroy the world. [2] Both are obvious cases of hyperboles. More hyperbole statement like country busting[3] Even Fujitora is a country buster by this statement,[4] though Fujitora's statement is ACTUALLY backep up by on panel feat with Dressroa floating. However, Fujitora is only 6C by powerscaling while Sensui is 6B

Now, lets see the real feats. Sensei's max DC was island level. He destroyed some cliffs with shockwave (not mountains)[5] . Here is what those cliffs look like [6] The people are circled in red. The cliff are barely 30m tall from appearance. It's almost the same as Sakura punching ground and killing Zetsu clones [7]. Combine Sakura's feat on top of her hurting Kaguya, makes Sakura a legit country level like Sensui. Does it really? Why is Sakura hurting Kaguya an outlier while Sensui country busting legit? Both showed equal amount of DC. Madara destroyed 5 mountains with shockwave as well [8]That's right, 5 of them. Does that make EMS Madara continent level?

Now, lets see the problems with Raizen's power scaling. It's assume that Raizen > Yusuke >> Sensui. Thus Raizen is multi-continent level at least. Why is that not right? We know that Naruto effortlessly thrashed Toneri in the last using partial KCM (Naruto didn't even have full body BSM like he did in the Boruto Movie). By that logic

Toneri= multi-continent level

BSM Naruto= moon level+ (minimum)

Rikudo Mode Naruto= large planet level

Kaguya= star level

Obviously, that's not the case here in VSbattles Wiki. Both Naruto and Toneri are on the same level (6A) despite Naruto one shotted Toneri in a much weaker mode without using full power.

Let's see another example,

Frieza= planet level

Cell= star level

Buu= solar system level

Beerus= galaxy level

Is Beerus really galaxy level despite the statements? At least Beerus has legitimate starbusting feats. What feat does Raizen have to be 6A?

I request the mod to evaluate the size of the cliffs Sensui destroyed and scale the other YYH properly. Here are the scans [9] [10] Also not to take the country busting hype into account as shown with Fujitora's Dressrosa lifting example (except Fujitora's statement was accompanied with on panel feat, nothing for Sensui here)

 

[A6colute]

Totally agree.

 

[Rib78]

I don't mean to hijack this, but the issue you brought up with Raizen's scaling is something that I feel is an issue wiki-wide. To give another example, in NNT Meliodas' demon form before he got his power back is listed as City level for being far more powerful than his base form and the other sins; then he and the Ten Commandments are listed as Mountain level for being far more powerful than that, but the verse only has Small City level feats to show for it.

and a few KHR characters are listed as Island level, and two are listed as Continent level for being far above them (which obviously makes no sense, but even if if they where listed as Large Island level this would apply), while KHR as a verse has only Large Town level feats and some minor canon multipliers that don't would go to Small City level.

There is more than this, but I think this sort of thing needs sorting; one of the major things we should always be on the look out for is inflation, and that's why if we're going to scale characters to beyond what feats are available based on inferred multipliers, we need to be more careful about it; maybe have rules about it.

 

[Illuminati478]

i agree with you on everything you've said....

 

[Joseph619]

Thanks A6colute and Illuminati478. I am particularly worried about the bias YYH is getting here, where statements are taken so highly into account, while completely disregarded for other verses like One Piece and DBZ. I also don't understand why Sensui is 6B despite destroying a few cliffs which Sakura could do, whereas Fujitora also has a country busting statement accompanied with an on panel feat. This is kinda ridiculous

 

[Illuminati478]

i was always trying to fight the statement logic, as you know i support feats over statements, but i am afraid that regarding to YYH, most people here wouldn't agree, it has been up once already but nothing have changed.

 

[Joseph619]

Why is that? Any particular reason for the bias for YYH? I have seen quite a few people saying on comicvine that Sensui destroyed the cliffs with shockwave, which makes it a country busting feat for some weird reason. If so Madara destroyed 5 mountains with shockwave as well against his fight with Hashirama[1], does that feat make EMS Madara continent level? Apparently not

 

[Darkness552]

i do agree with the powerscaling

as far as statements go, feats are always going to be above them but if the statement isn't vague and isn't out of the verses general level of power, it can be considered

like Whitebeard's statement and the other guy from YYH statement of destroying the world are very vague and both are not in the verses general level of power

as for the country level statements i can see them being accepted if its something close to the verses level of power but i don't know much about YYH to be sure

 

[Joseph619]

^^I have already shown you Sensui's feat above, you can decide if he's country level or not. It looks to have the same DC as Sakura's punch

 

[Darkness552]

@Joseph619

im just giving my input on the statements and powerscaling points you brought up as ive said i dont have much knowledge on YYH to really give an accurate opinion on the matter

 

[Joseph619]

^^You can check out Yusuke respect thread[1] I don't think you're gonna find a single feat above island level in AoE, much less country or continent

Here's one of the better feats in YYH [2] Definitely not country sized, or even island

 

[Illuminati478]

comicvine doesn't have a very good calcing group, currently sensui's feat is calced at OBD to be 335 gigatons, which to be fair isn't that far from country level, i still am reluctent to accept the statement fully, especially as it is a standard to accept feats over statements, i still say a downgrade is due but thats just my personal opinion...

 

[Joseph619]

comicvine doesn't have a very good calcing group, currently sensui's feat is calced at OBD to be 335 gigatons, which to be fair isn't that far from country level, i still am reluctent to accept the statement fully, especially as it is a standard to accept feats over statements, i still say a downgrade is due but thats just my personal opinion...

Really? For which one? I really want to see people do a calc for Sakura too. Island level sakura

 

[Illuminati478]

it was because of the shock wave and the inverse square law, also sakura won't be island level becaus she broke those hills on contact....

 

[Joseph619]

^^ I know, that's why I already mentioned that if busting a single cliff with shockwave is country level then Madara destroying 5 mountains with shockwave is continent level.

The bias is real bro

 

[Non-Bias]

comicvine doesn't have a very good calcing group, currently sensui's feat is calced at OBD to be 335 gigatons, which to be fair isn't that far from country level, i still am reluctent to accept the statement fully, especially as it is a standard to accept feats over statements, i still say a downgrade is due but thats just my personal opinion...

Really? For which one? I really want to see people do a calc for Sakura too. Island level sakura

Well she's mountain level due to Word of God haha.

 

[Darkness552]

well if isn't that far off from country level it can be considered but again i dont have too much knowledge on YYH

as for Raizen if he got that ranking from powerscaling up then he could be downgraded because of but like above i do not have too much knowledge on Yu Yu Hakusho so i suggest you ask Rocks75

 

[Joseph619]

^^Rock75 appears to have Sensui avatar, and he was the one who assigned the tiers to the YYH chars. I dont think asking him is a good idea. Isn't he biased towards YYH?

 

[Davy0]

comicvine doesn't have a very good calcing group, currently sensui's feat is calced at OBD to be 335 gigatons, which to be fair isn't that far from country level, i still am reluctent to accept the statement fully, especially as it is a standard to accept feats over statements, i still say a downgrade is due but thats just my personal opinion...

Really? For which one? I really want to see people do a calc for Sakura too. Island level sakura

Well she's mountain level due to Word of God haha.

She has abilities comparable to the physical prowess of Bijuu Mode Naruto, so her abilities should be right around there. Bijuu Mode is strong because of the Bijuu Bombs.

 

[The_Everlasting]

That just means he likes the series. Ant has Bolin from Legend of Korra as his avatar, but he isn't biased. Neither was Kavpeny with Berserk. If anything, it's better to ask Rocks about this, since he's basically the resident YYH fan.

 

[Davy0]

Considering how bad Yusuke Curbstomped Sensui after reawakening, the matter of A-II Warnings (which was Yusuke who was a low level S-Class) in which he threatened to destroy Japan with his newfound power. It's a more believable statement.

 

[Darkness552]

well if you suspect to change ratings that another admin put in place you are likely going to have to argue your point with him

of course if all the other staff and members agree with you it probably wouldn't matter

 

[Non-Bias]

I know. I was just joking really since Mountain Level isn't that far away from Island Level so maybe Sakura is that strong via powerscaling too.

 

[Joseph619]

So far most people seem to agree with me. Fujitora being country buster is more believable than Sensui as Sensui doesn't have any country level feats. Neither does Yusuke or Raizen, or any other YYH character

 

[Davy0]

We could change her to Island Level if ya want Nonny, that's up to you. But what I do know is that she can't be scaled to the feats of Bijuu Balls as that would make no sense. Bijuu Balls are the strongest attacks of any Bijuu, and from what I got, she shouldn't be that powerful though more than capable of holding her own in a fight with her sheer strength. You can give her MHS reactions or even speed if you want (though that also makes no sense, but whatevs, human willpower or whatever made her capable of fighting alongside Naruto and Sasuke).

 

[Davy0]

So far most people seem to agree with me. Fujitora being country buster is more believable than Sensui as Sensui doesn't have any country level feats. Neither does Yusuke or Raizen, or any other YYH character

I don't, yet, and I love One Piece.

 

[Darkness552]

well the country level statement does seem a bit believable to me, although a raizen downgrade seems reasonable

 

[Joseph619]

@davy0 You couldn't provide any useful arguement as to Why Raizen is continent level. You said YYH has more truth to the series than everything else. I smell bias from you, sorry

 

[Darkness552]

nvm

 

[Joseph619]

who me or Davy0

Davy0

 

[Davy0]

it's not bias. It just makes sense that the guy can do it after reawakening as an S-class. They have a force that is made for suppressing people who are low S-Class after all. Yusuke is fully confident in his ability to destroy Japan, he completely annihilates Sensui while fighting against him, especially after going into his Awakened Form.

 

[Joseph619]

^^It doesn't make any sense whatsoever, not according to this site. I already explained everything in OP

 

[Davy0]

nvm

He thinks I have bias towards YYH even though I debate for One Piece in almost every contest of power, or usually give One Piece the benefit of a doubt and thoroughly read the series for feats, posting them up if no one else has seen them. One Piece is my favorite fiction, dude. Archie Sonic is second, Beelzebub is Third (Oga is Hilarious), and DB is my fourth.

 

[Davy0]

I know, I'm trolling you, so trollish...

 

[Non-Bias]

Nah, Sakura at Mountain Level is fine. I would never change her to Island Level (I even said that she should be City Level lol) unless something warranted it. I was talking about how teenage Sakura is< Adult Sakura and that means that she can probably be Island Level via powerscaling because she's stronger. I was basically abusing the powerscaling method like Joseph619 thinks YYH fans are doing. Regarding this thread though, I have no problem with YYH characters being this strong, but I can see where Joseph619 and others mean about it too.

 

[Davy0]

It was at End of Series, and Raizen was hungry. He was still on par with Yomi who are unquantifiable-y more powerful than Yusuke was (who already threatened to destroy Japan), Yomi won in the anime against Yusuke after he gained his power up, and Yusuke got much stronger before fighting against Yomi in both the anime and manga to learn to control his newfound powers. Raizen was stronger than Yomi and Mukuro in his prime, without trying.

 

[Joseph619]

Nah, Sakura at Mountain Level is fine. I would never change her to Island Level (I even said that she should be City Level lol) unless something warranted it. I was talking about how teenage Sakura is< Adult Sakura and that means that she can probably be Island Level via powerscaling because she's stronger. I was basically abusing the powerscaling method like Joseph619 thinks YYH fans are doing. Regarding this thread though, I have no problem with YYH characters being this strong, but I can see where Joseph619 and others mean about it too.

I was kinda baffled to see Sakura at 7A, I personally won't put her above 7B lol. However the character tier for YYH here is nonsensical and outrageous based on the wonky powerscaling

 

[The_Everlasting]

Also, to address one of your original points, unless the statements are either outrageous or hyperbole (Like every "destroy/threaten the universe" bluff), then they can be used (Like with Beerus being able to destroy the solar system). Not having feats means nothing, again, like with DBZ.

 

[Non-Bias]

It's to bad Raizen fell in love with a human and made that promise not to eat anymore. Maybe this discussion wouldn't be taking place. Although given the way we didn't see a lot of feats, maybe not.

 

[Antvasima]

I still think that you should place a message at Rocks75's wall, and ask him about it. He is likely the most knowledgeable staff member regarding Yu Yu Hakusho. In any case, if I understand correctly, Sensui has only been calculated at Island level, and Yusuke casually oneshot dozens of demons at his level, so I could easily see him as Country level. Although I admit that whether we can infer that Raizen is Continent level from that seems more uncertain.

Anyway, Davy0 isn't a troll. He is occasionally rude or argumentative, but he tends to be logical.