Zoro Vs Cid

[Deceived3596]

Let him make the CRT, I wanna see the arguments because we're literally given multiple feats, implications and even direct statements of Zoro predicting people's movements, including their attacks. If he can disprove all of this then it should be removed from the profile.

 

[Eminiteable]

Also make zoro see his vision of only make Zoro have more advantageous since he can heard the voice or something like that when he's near death, maybe some of OP folks can correct me with this one

If I'm understanding what you're saying right:

Sensing the breath of all things is the requirement for cutting iron/steel (the power Zoro used to cut Mr. 1). In the fight he only achieved this after being on the verge of death and later in the arc comments that if he can't command the power at will it will mean he didn't get stronger, so he begins training.

We see in the next few arcs Zoro able to cut steel/iron at will meaning he no longer needs to be on the verge of death to sense the breath of all things.

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

If I'm understanding what you're saying right:

Sensing the breath of all things is the requirement for cutting iron/steel (the power Zoro used to cut Mr. 1). In the fight he only achieved this after being on the verge of death and later in the arc comments that if he can't command the power at will it will mean he didn't get stronger, so he begins training.

We see in the next few arcs Zoro able to cut steel/iron at will meaning he no longer needs to be on the verge of death to sense the breath of all things.

I see, thanks for the correction

 

[YungManzi]

Let him make the CRT, I wanna see the arguments because we're literally given multiple feats, implications and even direct statements of Zoro predicting people's movements, including their attacks. If he can disprove all of this then it should be removed from the profile.

My argument isn't that Zoro can't predict attacks. Please stop saying that.

It's that he hasn't used Goken to predict attacks, and there's nothing in the manga that suggests that he has. Not one scan I've seen says "I used the breathe to predict this" besides falling rocks.

And obviously predicting falling rocks is nothing like predicting attacks from superhuman speed people using it.

You can argue, as I have, that every single instance of him predicting things pre-haki just has to do directly with his combat skill and absolutely nothing to do with the breathe of all things. There's nothing that even suggests that it does.

 

[Kachon123]

My argument isn't that Zoro can't predict attacks. Please stop saying that.

It's that he hasn't used Goken to predict attacks, and there's nothing in the manga that suggests that he has. Not one scan I've seen says "I used the breathe to predict this" besides falling rocks.

And obviously predicting falling rocks is nothing like predicting attacks from superhuman speed people using it.

You can argue, as I have, that every single instance of him predicting things pre-haki just has to do directly with his combat skill and absolutely nothing to do with the breathe of all things. There's nothing that even suggests that it does.

So then what is the point of your CRT? If it's not to remove the ability entirely, are you just going to say that it's not combat applicable?

 

[Deceived3596]

My argument isn't that Zoro can't predict attacks. Please stop saying that.

It's that he hasn't used Goken to predict attacks, and there's nothing in the manga that suggests that he has. Not one scan I've seen says "I used the breathe to predict this" besides falling rocks.

And obviously predicting falling rocks is nothing like predicting attacks from superhuman speed people using it.

You can argue, as I have, that every single instance of him predicting things pre-haki just has to do directly with his combat skill and absolutely nothing to do with the breathe of all things. There's nothing that even suggests that it does.

If you're conceding that he can, in fact, predict attacks. How exactly do you believe he's predicting these attacks, is he using the technique which is specifically shown to predict the movement of things by following the "breath" of them or is he using an entirely separate ability or skill that's never explained or implied by the author. What's the most likely true claim given the evidence?

 

[YungManzi]

So then what is the point of your CRT? If it's not to remove the ability entirely, are you just going to say that it's not combat applicable?

Bingo.

The only thing he's predicted with goken is falling rocks.

 

[YungManzi]

If you're conceding that he can, in fact, predict attacks. How exactly do you believe he's predicting these attacks, is he using the technique which is specifically shown to predict the movement of things by following the "breath" of them or is he using an entirely separate ability or skill that's never explained or implied by the author. What's the most likely true claim given the evidence?

He's using pure skill.

Luffy can also predict attacks in early one piece, do we think he was also using goken?

 

[Kachon123]

Bingo.

The only thing he's predicted with goken is falling rocks.

Do you understand what Goken is?


As accepted here, and explicitly stated in a vivre card, the simple act of using Goken allows him to understand the breath of his opponents and his surroundings.

 

[Deceived3596]

He's using pure skill.

Luffy can also predict attacks in early one piece, do we think he was also using goken?

I don't care about Luffy because Luffy doesn't have the specific context of him having an ability that allows you to predict the motion of things by following their "breath".

The comparison is null when you realise this simple fact because the two variables aren't consistent.

 

[Kachon123]

Do you understand what Goken is?


As accepted here, and explicitly stated in a vivre card, the simple act of using Goken allows him to understand the breath of his opponents and his surroundings.

Not sure if I made sense here, but if I didn't here's a better explanation.

To use Goken, Zoro needs to be able to read the breath of his opponents and his surroundings. The fact that he can use Goken in any and every attack is enough proof to show that the 'Breath of All Things' is combat applicable.

 

[YungManzi]

Do you understand what Goken is?

explicitly stated in a vivre card,

I don't see anything about predicting attacks in that scan.

Not sure if I made sense here, but if I didn't here's a better explanation.

To use Goken, Zoro needs to be able to read the breath of his opponents and his surroundings. The fact that he can use Goken in any and every attack is enough proof to show that the 'Breath of All Things' is combat applicable.

Sure, that doesn't mean he can use it to predict attacks.

I don't care about Luffy because Luffy doesn't have the specific context of him having an ability that allows you to predict the motion of things by following their "breath".

The comparison is null when you realise this simple fact because the two variables aren't consistent.

I brought up Luffy so as to say, Zoro having feats of predicting attacks literally means nothing for goken unless he's stated to be using it to predict them Princibly because there's another character who we know doesn't have haki or goken but can predict attacks just like Zoro.


You can't assume him predicting attacks is him using goken to do it just because he predicted falling rocks using it one time. As far as what's stated in the manga and even anime, he's never used Goken to predict enemy attacks.

Now... If you think we should assume he was using it because he can predict rocks with it, that's debatable and that would be what the CRT is for.

We're crowding this post enough already, but I don't care enough about this to actually make a CRT for it so i'll just drop it.

 

[Deceived3596]

Alright

 

[LordGinSama]

Now... If you think we should assume he was using it because he can predict rocks with it, that's debatable and that would be what the CRT is for.

One isn't needed nor is the assumption needed because it's already accepted as such in the profile.

 

[XxZetsuxX]

Who is the most skilled character in the Wiki?

I'm betting on Jin Mori

 

[OriginFox]

Who is the most skilled character in the Wiki?

I'm betting on Jin Mori

depends on what you mean by skilled. Theres those goofy ln characters with flowery language and actually skilled characters.

 

[XxZetsuxX]

depends on what you mean by skilled. Theres those goofy ln characters with flowery language and actually skilled characters.

Mori is most certainly pure skill

No flowery language

 

[First_Witch]

We have an entire thread dedicated to that topic

 

[XxZetsuxX]

Didn't know that, Thanks