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Giving Toneri a Second Chance (Obito Style)

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it’s likely the Tenseigan kept the moon together as to not ruin Toneri’s plan as it has portrayed capabilities of doing such.
The Tenseigan has shown the ability to move the entire Moon. Not to move two separated halves of the Moon.

I can see how you could make a leap from "If the Tenseigan can move the entire Moon, then the Tenseigan should be able to move two halves of the Moon even if they're disconnected", but technically this capability has not been portrayed.
 
The Tenseigan has shown the ability to move the entire Moon. Not to move two separated halves of the Moon.

I can see how you could make a leap from "If the Tenseigan can move the entire Moon, then the Tenseigan should be able to move two halves of the Moon even if they're disconnected", but technically this capability has not been portrayed.
Actually it requires more mental gymnastics to think it wouldn't though, that's just my opinion.
 
The Tenseigan has shown the ability to move the entire Moon. Not to move two separated halves of the Moon.

I can see how you could make a leap from "If the Tenseigan can move the entire Moon, then the Tenseigan should be able to move two halves of the Moon even if they're disconnected", but technically this capability has not been portrayed.
Here’s the thing, we don’t need to be spoon fed to make claims. You can make a claim based upon the most probabilistic interpretation.

It follows that if the are Tenseigan can move the moon, it very likely can move the halves. I’m not claiming it with 100% certainty but I don’t need to for it to be a better claim than “it can’t do it”.
 
Damn, Arc been cooking.

Anyway, I vehemently agree with the OP, I personally never agreed with the axing of the feat myself.

Plus, the whole idea of "Just because Tenseigan can move the entire moon doesn't mean it can move the two separate halves" is the peak epitome of utter horseshit.
 
It's literally as simple as if we're told x ability can do y action to z object, then we should assume x ability can do y action to z object until we're told it can't do that action anymore, regardless of how fragmented or destroyed the object is since that ability of x, and the action of y isn't contingent on the "wholeness" of object z from our current understanding.

We don't need to make these unneeded assumptions just for the sake of downplaying the feat people.....
 
Damn, Arc been cooking.

Anyway, I vehemently agree with the OP, I personally never agreed with the axing of the feat myself.

Plus, the whole idea of "Just because Tenseigan can move the entire moon doesn't mean it can move the two separate halves" is the peak epitome of utter horseshit.
Oh come on, I said nothing false there.

At least Arc7 isn't claiming 100% certainty for that. Neither am I in fact.
 
I’d also like to mention if we assume the Tenseigan cannot move the halves of the moon, you’d have to concede that Toneri would have intentionally foiled his own plan by splitting the moon. Which again is completely nonsensical and antithetical to the plot itself.

At least Arc7 isn't claiming 100% certainty for that.
Never have, I’m only claiming it’s more likely/more probable than not. If you wanna think about it in AP rating terms, if the feat were relevant to profiles I’d essentially be fine with a “likely 5-C+”.
 
People are making fun of it because it's a goofy statement that's literally unsupported by everything in the movie. We aren't discussing purely possibilities here, we're discussion possibilities which are probable, that isn't a probable possibility Damage.
 
I’d also like to mention if we assume the Tenseigan cannot move the halves of the moon, you’d have to concede that Toneri would have intentionally foiled his own plan by splitting the moon. Which again is completely nonsensical and antithetical to the plot itself.
Just because the two halves were drifting away from each other somewhat doesn't mean that the Moon would stop on its trajectory towards Earth, right?

Or had the Moon already stopped moving by that point?
 
Damage, with all due respect, you most certainly did. If Tenseigan can move the moon, he can most certainly move both halves
With all due respect, I think you must have misread my post.

I said "technically this capability has not been portrayed". How is that in any way false?

I'm not saying "It's impossible for the Tenseigan to move both halves of the Moon!!!"

I just said it wasn't directly shown to us. That's not false no matter how you look at it.
 
Just because the two halves were drifting away from each other somewhat doesn't mean that the Moon would stop on its trajectory towards Earth, right?

Or had the Moon already stopped moving by that point?
If you look at the split speed from the calc they would’ve escaped the moon’s GBE and kept floating away from each other. We also see in the movie that unless the Tenseigan is moving the moon it doesn’t get closer to earth. As seen in the scene where Naruto punches the TCM out of Toneri. So unless the Tenseigan is moving the moon it’s halted.
 
I said "technically this capability has not been portrayed". How is that in any way false?
The capability hasn’t been explicitly stated* but damage we are talking about probability here not possibility. We are saying it’s far more probable that the Tenseigan can than not. We aren’t saying the possibility of your claim doesn’t exist, but rather it’s improbable.
 
With all due respect, I think you must have misread my post.

I said "technically this capability has not been portrayed". How is that in any way false?

I'm not saying "It's impossible for the Tenseigan to move both halves of the Moon!!!"

I just said it wasn't directly shown to us. That's not false no matter how you look at it.
I mean sure, we've never seen it. But it is something that can most certainly be assumed to be true since he can move the whole Moon itself.
 
The capability hasn’t been explicitly stated* but damage we are talking about probability here not possibility. We are saying it’s far more probable that the Tenseigan can than not. We aren’t saying the possibility of your claim doesn’t exist, but rather it’s improbable.
Sure, I'm not even denying that it's possible it is within the Tenseigan's capability. I'm just saying it wasn't shown to us.

Then I get people saying I am speaking "utter horseshit" and I don't get it.
 
Sure, I'm not even denying that it's possible it is within the Tenseigan's capability. I'm just saying it wasn't shown to us.

Then I get people saying I am speaking "total horseshit" and I don't get it.
Well look at it like this. Something had to be affecting the two halves. Because if we assume the split is only tiny like AKM’s thread, then the gravitational pull of the halves would’ve slammed them back into each other touching. If we take my interpretation of the split, the halves would’ve escaped each others pull and went flying away. However neither of those two things happened so logically we can deduce that something affected the halves, and that something can only be the Tenseigan.

If your claim is just that we aren’t explicitly told my interpretation happened that’s cool. I’m not arguing we are told, I’m arguing my interpretation is more probable.
 
@Arc7Kuroi For what it's worth, I think I would agree with a "possibly/likely 5-C+", just not with a full 5-C+ for it. I'm just also fine with not using the calc altogether.

I think you can put me in neutral for now.
 
This is a false equivalence with my actual argument.

Because in contrast to your example in which we have no evidence of King A’s existence, we have explicit evidence that the Tenseigan can move the moon
I was just explaining the concept of an argument from silence. It wasn't meant to be equivalent to your argument.
 
Bruh, Arc literally addressed that argument in the OP itself.
An argument being addressed doesn't mean you can't still agree with it. It just means it's been responded to by someone with a different viewpoint.
 
Bruh, Arc literally addressed that argument in the OP itself.
Said moon cut happens at 1:33:48 in the movie.
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z36luP8.png

We see the cut on the moon at 1:34:14
mB6qr01.png

This is what we see.
We see the cut compared to the people at right after said cut happens at 1:37:32
YSgQLjK.png

To say this is truly consistent and that the calc is acceptable is asinine.

Here are some more scans.


It's painfully obvious that the movie is inconsistent.

I agree with Toneri being Moon level and the action being moon level, but I do not agree with the calc which uses a wack ass number for the distance when everything we seen and know shows that isn't the case.
 
@Arc7Kuroi; just so that we're on the same page, is the argument that there is no inconsistency in the gap sizes; rather it is most likely the case that Toneri consciously used the Tenseigan to move the two halves of the Moon back together offscreen and leave a smaller gap between them?
 
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just so that we're on the same page, is the argument that there is no inconsistency in the gap sizes; rather it is most likely the case that Toneri consciously used the Tenseigan to move the two halves of the Moon back together offscreen and leave a smaller gap between them?
Yeah, that's explicitly his conclusion in the OP:

That's what we do with most things in general in powerscaling. So, when looking at the situation and the two claims (the Tenseigan did/didn't move the halves back), you have two conclusions you can draw: 1) the Tenseigan likely moved the halves back together such that it could more easily slam the whole moon into the planet or 2) the Tenseigan likely didn't move the halves back together and the movie is just inconsistent.

I obviously support conclusion 1. Not only is it the only conclusion that follows that doesn't create a needless contradiction, there's no reason to discredit the assumption. Why would the animators draw key attention to a scene that has the entire intention of displaying Toneri's power if it's just wrong? You can't reconcile it without assuming the animators are just stupid and don't know how to properly portray what they are animating. I believe most people will see eye to eye with me on this, if this thread is any indicator of how we should treat sizes. The majority of staff agree that scenes in which "large sizes" (in this case the intentional depiction of Toneri's feat) are the focal point are better than scenes in which "smaller sizes objects" (in this case the peeps chatting) are the focal point.
 
@Arc7Kuroi; just so that we're on the same page, is the argument that there is no inconsistency in the gap sizes; rather it is most likely the case that Toneri consciously used the Tenseigan to move the two halves of the Moon back together offscreen and leave a smaller gap between them?
more or less, idk about Toneri doing it consciously or if the Tenseigan just kinda does it automatically, i dont remember if we are ever told Toneri is actively piloting the Tenseigan's actions or if it runs like an autopilot. But basically, yes, im arguing the Tenseigan more than likely kept the halves close and moved them back post split.

I can speak for myself Deagonx 🗿
 
I edited my above post but others have responded to it, in it's pre-edited state. To repeat my point here:


Because to add onto KingogKing777's point, at 1:34:14 we can see that there is dust still rising from Toneri's attack, meaning that the attack had just happened and there is no sign of the Moon halves having been brought closer together. No disturbance in the rocks or the dust patterns; no sign of Hinata or Toneri having moved.

It just doesn't very reasonable that the most likely explanation is something we don't see happening. No sign of Toneri reacting to the Moon's drifting apart, no sign of the Tenseigan being activated to bring them together, no sign of the Moon halves in motion...

I get wanting a logical explanation that can account for the scene without having to resort to it being an inconsistency... but inconsistencies can and do happen. If writers were perfect we wouldn't have plot holes but we do. If animators were perfect we wouldn't have animation mistakes, but we do...

Why is an offscreen series of events more likely than a simple continuity error / animator's oversight?
 
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