The_Yellow_Topaz
She/Her- 1,477
- 1,509
So... Undertale's ratings have problems.
Thank you for listening to my podcast.
COULD THIS BE. . . ?
. . .
. . .
I BELIEVE YOU HAVE FOUND YOUR WAY. . .
INTO A PLEASANT SURPRISE. . .
ARE YOU READY
FOR THE REVISION NOW?
. . .
EXCELENT.
TRULY, EXCELENT.
. . .
THEN
WE MAY BEGIN.
. . .
. . .
I BELIEVE YOU HAVE FOUND YOUR WAY. . .
INTO A PLEASANT SURPRISE. . .
ARE YOU READY
FOR THE REVISION NOW?
. . .
EXCELENT.
TRULY, EXCELENT.
. . .
THEN
WE MAY BEGIN.
Anyway, HELLO TO ALL OF YOU!So, someone just called me on my phone and told me I actually need to explain why the ratings are wrong... I mean what? That's crazy right?
I tried to talk back to them, but when I put the receiver on my ear
there was nothing but garbage noise!
Anyway you know how this goes!
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BAH-
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...
BAH-
FIRST POINT
KnightKnight creates a mini-sun
Explaning what is currently accepted.
- KnightKnight, a monster that is encountered during CORE on any route, is able to make a sun-shaped bullet that shoots out stuff that's similar to stardust. Because we have evidence that magic can mimick real life elements, such Pyrope and Toriel having realfire, the previous thread stated that what KnightKnight created was actually a star, made out of plasma, an element.
- THEN, this calculation was made, calculating how much energy the mini-sun has, using the density of HED plasma in an actual star.
If you are knowledgeable on physics, you already saw the problem(s)!
Let's dive into them, shall we?
Let's dive into them, shall we?
PLASMA DENSITY
So, the first problem rises when the original user who made the calculation didn't read the document they used.
So, the first problem rises when the original user who made the calculation didn't read the document they used.
- The High-Energy-Density Plasma is caused by the intense and concentrated energy and nuclear fusion at the center of the star. As the document specifies, it happens excusively at the CORE (Ironically) of the star, not the entire star.
- The core of a star has 0.225 Solar Radius of the entire celestial body. On the original that's a radius of around 44cm.
- 0.4466*0.225 = 0.100485 meters! Or 0.00425m3
- If we then apply the value 1e10 J/m3, we get 0.01 Tons of TNT, or 9-A. That's far from 8-C.
- Even with this downgrade, and I'M SORRY! But it still would not be a valid feat!!!! [I CAN'T BELIEVE IT EITHER!!!] Why, you ask? Because it's contradicted by the Sun's own Gravitational Binding Energy! Yes, the GBE must be higher than the energy the star actually produces, and it is in all cases of actual stars. That's because the GBE represents the total energy required to overcome the star's gravitational forces and disperse its material completely. It acts as a measure of the binding strength holding the star together. If the energy density of the plasma were to exceed the GBE, it would indicate that the star's internal energy is greater than the gravitational forces trying to disperse it. This would result in the star expanding or even undergoing a catastrophic event like a supernova. This is clearly not the case with KnightKnight's attack!
- Stars result in Plasma, not the other way around! Plasma happens because stars are too big, and too massive, resulting in a temperature of 10 million Kelvin at the core!!! They have plasma at their core because of the extreme conditions of temperature and pressure present in the stellar interior! Needless to say, KnightKnight's Sun doesn't have the mass, nor the heat to achieve this!
TL;DR
- High-energy plasma is caused by nuclear fusion in the core of a star.
- The core of a star is much smaller than the entire star.
- The energy density of plasma is very high, but it is still much lower than the gravitational binding energy of a star.
- If the energy density of plasma were to exceed the gravitational binding energy, the star would expand or even undergo a supernova.
- KnightKnight'sSun is too small and low-mass to produce the high-energy plasma that is claimed.
CORRECT WAY TO DO IT
For stars that small, just use the Stefan Boltzmann Law
For stars that small, just use the Stefan Boltzmann Law
- Examples of other calculations using it: Maxwell creates a sun. Alonix creates a mini-sun.
- To be clear, they used 15 million kelvin, we have no reason to assume KnightKnight's Sun would be as hot as our own, NFL. They also used the core, instead of the surface, which is what you should use.
- r = 44.66cm. Area = 2.504m^2
- Watts = 0.037 Tons of TNT (9-A)
- I am also pointing out that this is assuming it has as much heat as the Sun's surface.
These assumptions cannot be made for KnightKnight's attacks which haven't shown any Sun-like property.
From being able to mimick fire to being able to mimick nuclear fusion? That's no-limits fallacy.
It's a huge leap in difficulty, and energy.
Toriel and Pyrope doesn't set a precedent.
It allows leniency. An element that's too powerful still needs a little bit of proof.
Unless we can find an actual reliable heat to calculate this, the feat should be scrapped entirely.
From being able to mimick fire to being able to mimick nuclear fusion? That's no-limits fallacy.
It's a huge leap in difficulty, and energy.
Toriel and Pyrope doesn't set a precedent.
It allows leniency. An element that's too powerful still needs a little bit of proof.
Unless we can find an actual reliable heat to calculate this, the feat should be scrapped entirely.
SECOND POINT
Mettaton EX kicks at the speed of electricty
Explaning what is currently accepted.
- Mettaton moved his legs at the same time as his eletricity, so the KE was calculated using a normal human leg! and using!!!! Inverse Square Law to suggest how heavy they would be.
OH! That's it?... Why is this here then?
Great question, me!
Great question, me!
Why are you talking to yourself?
Uhhhhhhhh
Well uhhhhhhhhh
...
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Okay, fine.
It's just a pixelscaling problem.
Using Inverse-Square Law so many times is bound to lead to some inflation.
The calculation implies Mettaton's leg has 2.56637868m³.
No?
Thankfully, we can just... prove it?
Well uhhhhhhhhh
...
...
Okay, fine.
It's just a pixelscaling problem.
Using Inverse-Square Law so many times is bound to lead to some inflation.
The calculation implies Mettaton's leg has 2.56637868m³.
No?
Thankfully, we can just... prove it?
- Soul: 36px | 42.72cm
- Leg length: 355px | 421.26cm (four meters of PURE LEG)
- Average thickness: (58+36)/2 | 47px | 55.77cm
- Volume (Cylinder): 1.03m3
- Hollow volume 30%: 0.721m3
- a 2.5x discrepancy!
- That's no margin of error, that's error of margin.
Calculation comes off as 5659.85kg. KE comes off as 0.18 Tons.
Calculation should be altered. If not, I will just make the blog post (I WILL FORMAT IT NEATLY, I SWEAR. NO JOKES)
(Downgrade, but hey, Undertale vs Deltarune is possible again?)
Calculation should be altered. If not, I will just make the blog post (I WILL FORMAT IT NEATLY, I SWEAR. NO JOKES)
(Downgrade, but hey, Undertale vs Deltarune is possible again?)
THIRD POINT
Vulkin's eletricity bullets are considered to be lightning speed
Explaning what happened
- The Undertale enemy, Vulkin, has bullet patterns shaped like electricity coming off a volcano cloud, thus, it was accepted in this thread that it had lightning speed. Because elements have been mimicked before.
Before I dive into it, I just wanted you to look at this.
...
I don't want to just say "gap too high" but...
It certainly needs a stronger evidence, it can definitely be possible.
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I don't want to just say "gap too high" but...
It certainly needs a stronger evidence, it can definitely be possible.
Okay, as you guys can probably see, the thing about this whole speed is that
the fact it comes from a cloud, makes it lightning speed. Except it doesn't.
- The cloud is magical in nature, while we can assume it can be mimicked to some extent, it wouldn't have the same amout of negative and positive energy like a real life cloud, which is incomparably bigger and has more change on it!
- It doesn't satisfy any of the lightning speed criteria.
- "making muscles of affected beings contract" - Vulkin's lightning just passes through you
- "having an (electro)magnetic field" - Unfortunately, not the case
- "being shown to actually move with a speed similar to lightning" - No other frame of reference.
- "flowing through conducting materials" - It moves in a straight line through the air, so we can't know.
- "the character being able to manipulate real electricity or electromagnetism in general, generating ozone or causing electrolysis" - None of that.
- And the most important "It is required to show that the electricity carries an energy of at least 1.6 billion Joules or a voltage of at least 100 million Volts in order to qualify."
1.6 Billion Joules is 0.38 Tons of TNT. Vulkin doesn't scale to that.
Conclusion:
- KnightKnight's feat gets scrapped for a lack of a better alternative that isn't terrible for 'em
- Mettaton EX's feat gets a downgrade to 9-A+
- High-Tiers become the next highest speed tier after receiving a downgrade from MHS+