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Prime Soul King vs Red Wings of the Prophet Mujin Park (GRACE!)

It is not directly stated characters in GoH can act without a physical body, but we can deduce that they can via evidence.

We know that one's Core Element is a manifestation of their will to do something. Implied further when Satan's wings, an aspect of him part of his fundamental existence, can act without Satan's physical intervention after Mujin stole them from him (shown further when Satan's heart reacts to Satan's will even after being separated from his body).

So, while not stated, it is heavily implied one, with enough will, can act and effect the world without a physical body, aka via their Core.
 
azontr said:
It is not directly stated characters in GoH can act without a physical body, but we can deduce that they can via evidence.

We know that one's Core Element is a manifestation of their will to do something. Implied further when Satan's wings, an aspect of him part of his fundamental existence, can act without Satan's physical intervention after Mujin stole them from him (shown further when Satan's heart reacts to Satan's will even after being separated from his body).

So, while not stated, it is heavily implied one, with enough will, can act and effect the world without a physical body, aka via their Core.
Click to expand...
Nah GoH characters can totally act without a body.

Remember how many times R asked if they needed help, man was really trying lol. And he even did it too when he gave Mira Mujin’s right arm.

Hell Mubong was fighting Mori while his body was being disintegrated.

(Also yeah the core thing too because we literally see the 7nth owner’s core element leave it’s body to go to Mori and it’s still able to fight just fine, same with the sixth owner who’s physical body became just trees).
 
Maitreya said:
Nah GoH characters can totally act without a body.

Remember how many times R asked if they needed help, man was really trying lol. And he even did it too when he gave Mira Mujin’s right arm.

Hell Mubong was fighting Mori while his body was being disintegrated.

(Also yeah the core thing too because we literally see the 7nth owner’s core element leave it’s body to go to Mori and it’s still able to fight just fine, same with the sixth owner who’s physical body became just trees).
Click to expand...
Oh yeah TRU.

I forgor.
 
Majin doesn’t have an answer to soul existence erasure or any regeneration feat that involves his soul regenerating in the first place. I have so many others stuff to argue for the Soul King win con here but this is enough for now.
 
AppleLord said:
Majin doesn’t have an answer to soul existence erasure or any regeneration feat that involves his soul regenerating in the first place. I have so many others stuff to argue for the Soul King win con here but this is enough for now.
Click to expand...
Soul King can't interact with his soul.
 
AppleLord said:
Why not?
Click to expand...
Because Mujin's soul (among other aspects of his being) is contained within his Informational Existence (Type 2). SK is incapable of interacting with Type 2 Information, hence he cannot Soul Hax Mujin.

Influencing his physical body is much easier than influencing his spiritual body.
 
AppleLord said:
Majin doesn’t have an answer to soul existence erasure or any regeneration feat that involves his soul regenerating in the first place. I have so many others stuff to argue for the Soul King win con here but this is enough for now.
Click to expand...
I want like to hear all other wincons if you don't mind.
 
Maitreya said:
Nah GoH characters can totally act without a body.

Remember how many times R asked if they needed help, man was really trying lol. And he even did it too when he gave Mira Mujin’s right arm.

Hell Mubong was fighting Mori while his body was being disintegrated.

(Also yeah the core thing too because we literally see the 7nth owner’s core element leave it’s body to go to Mori and it’s still able to fight just fine, same with the sixth owner who’s physical body became just trees).
Click to expand...
Okay so, can you provide proof of these statements?
Or is it on their profiles?
 
azontr said:
It is not directly stated characters in GoH can act without a physical body, but we can deduce that they can via evidence.

We know that one's Core Element is a manifestation of their will to do something. Implied further when Satan's wings, an aspect of him part of his fundamental existence, can act without Satan's physical intervention after Mujin stole them from him (shown further when Satan's heart reacts to Satan's will even after being separated from his body).

So, while not stated, it is heavily implied one, with enough will, can act and effect the world without a physical body, aka via their Core.
Click to expand...
This doesn't show anything of them being able to act without a physical body.
 
Hellscream said:
This doesn't show anything of them being able to act without a physical body.
Click to expand...
In what way is it not?

Ones Core acts via their will (the 7th Owner's Core literally moves on its own after the 7th Owner dies), and it doesn't require intervention from the physical body to do things.

Objectively, it proves my claim.
 
azontr said:
Because Mujin's soul (among other aspects of his being) is contained within his Informational Existence (Type 2). SK is incapable of interacting with Type 2 Information, hence he cannot Soul Hax Mujin.

Influencing his physical body is much easier than influencing his spiritual body.
Click to expand...
I forgot the name but Quincy have a power that absorbs information from a soul. What’s stoping this being from getting absorbed completely?
 
AppleLord said:
I forgot the name but Quincy have a power that absorbs information from a soul. What’s stoping this being from getting absorbed completely?
Click to expand...
The information that Quincy absorb from one's soul isn't information that's fundamental to the make-up of reality itself, which is what Type 2 Information is. They are inherently 2 different mediums of information.

Not to mention, Mujin would just copy that lol.
 
Cores act via their will, okay sure but where does it state or imply that their can cores can do anything while their physical body isn't existent.

The core moves on okay, but the core isn't a physical manifestation as far as i understand.

So even if it lives on, it can't do anything without further proof or examples of this.
It'd be the same thing as claiming a soul would be able to affect or do anything to the physical realm without proper proof to back it up, i don't even see any proper evidence to "imply" this.

Mujin park literally ate satan's hearts and has his power, so i don't really get why you'd use that as an example.
 
azontr said:
The information that Quincy absorb from one's soul isn't information that's fundamental to the make-up of reality itself, which is what Type 2 Information is. They are inherently 2 different mediums of information.

Not to mention, Mujin would just copy that lol.
Click to expand...
Soul King will copy Mujin x100 and stand back in Taihiti while he fights himself + All Soul King’s powers on top of Mujin per copy who only get stronger.
 
Hellscream said:
Cores act via their will, okay sure but where does it state or imply that their can cores can do anything while their physical body isn't existent.

The core moves on okay, but the core isn't a physical manifestation as far as i understand.
Click to expand...
The Core being unable to utilize its own abilities while outside the physical body makes no sense from a logical standpoint, because they are what CONTAINS said abilities and said information.

Also, Core Elements are also physical manifestations lol, it's on the blog that they include the physical body + genetic information. You should be well aware of this.
Hellscream said:
Mujin park literally ate satan's hearts and has his power, so i don't really get why you'd use that as an example.
Click to expand...
I would suggest you learn to read between the lines, and understand what exactly my argument was. The point is that the Core can do shit on its own (that aren't just basic physical movement) without intervention from the physical body.
AppleLord said:
Soul King will copy Mujin x100 and stand back in Taihiti while he fights himself + All Soul King’s powers on top of Mujin per copy who only get stronger.
Click to expand...
He'd need to be able to interact with Mujin's Core Element to copy his abilities, so this doesn't work. At best he could replicate Mujin's physical body, but then the copies don't have abilities, meaning Mujin explodes them into non-existence.
 
azontr said:
The Core being unable to utilize its own abilities while outside the physical body makes no sense from a logical standpoint, because they are what CONTAINS said abilities and said information.

Also, Core Elements are also physical manifestations lol, it's on the blog that they include the physical body + genetic information. You should be well aware of this.

I would suggest you learn to read between the lines, and understand what exactly my argument was. The point is that the Core can do shit on its own (that aren't just basic physical movement) without intervention from the physical body.

He'd need to be able to interact with Mujin's Core Element to copy his abilities, so this doesn't work. At best he could replicate Mujin's physical body, but then the copies don't have abilities, meaning Mujin explodes them into non-existence.
Click to expand...
Mujin will need to have feats of power copying resistance since the powers been copy only works by looking at then. Core can be created with Visionary power of bringing imagination into reality so is no bother at all. Imagination has no limits for omnipotent god.
 
AppleLord said:
Mujin will need to have feats of power copying resistance since the powers been copy only works by looking at then. Core can be created with Visionary power of bringing imagination into reality so is no bother at all. Imagination has no limits for omnipotent god.
Click to expand...
I'm having a hard time figuring out if you are trying to troll me or not.

The point of my argument is that Mujin's abilities are contained within his Core. His Core is Type 2 Info. SK cannot interact with this. Meaning, he can't meaningfully effect Mujin's abilities. The Visionary would need feats of functioning on this level to be of relevance, which to my knowledge, it lacks.

Is my explanation satisfactory?
 
azontr said:
The Core being unable to utilize its own abilities while outside the physical body makes no sense from a logical standpoint, because they are what CONTAINS said abilities and said information.

Also, Core Elements are also physical manifestations lol, it's on the blog that they include the physical body + genetic information. You should be well aware of this.

I would suggest you learn to read between the lines, and understand what exactly my argument was. The point is that the Core can do shit on its own (that aren't just basic physical movement) without intervention from the physical body.

He'd need to be able to interact with Mujin's Core Element to copy his abilities, so this doesn't work. At best he could replicate Mujin's physical body, but then the copies don't have abilities, meaning Mujin explodes them into non-existence.
Click to expand...
I didn't read everything in the blog, just the general gist of it.
But by reading through it what does possessing someone's body have to do with a core cointaining their soul / mind?
I don't see anything related to the core in the blog in the soul / mind section.
Unless if it's specifically mentioned that he possessed him with his core element i don't see how that's used as an argument for the core element to possess their mind / soul.

Also just like you said that the soul king would need feats of functioning on this level, soul king's reality warping was able to create beings with NEP.
Now my question to you is, can you provide proof of them being able to copy anything even remotely close to the almighty?
Because these examples won't cut it.

 
You make it as almighty is an actual hax that can't be copied, it's simply a future manipulation with prec on 4D scale, nothing special on that.
 
ImmortalDread said:
You make it as almighty is an actual hax that can't be copied, it's simply a future manipulation with prec on 4D scale, nothing special on that.
Click to expand...
Nice so, if you can copy a cloning abiliy you can copy potent hax such as fate manipulation and 4D precog, but if you're a reality warper that can create NEP beings, you can't imagine information type 2.
Got it.
 
ImmortalDread said:
You make it as almighty is an actual hax that can't be copied, it's simply a future manipulation with prec on 4D scale, nothing special on that.
Click to expand...
The Almighty sadly used to be 4D, but there was a downgrade thread here in VS Battles Wiki Forum that removed it, I believe.
 
Hellscream said:
I didn't read everything in the blog, just the general gist of it.
Click to expand...
That explains things.
Hellscream said:
But by reading through it what does possessing someone's body have to do with a core cointaining their soul / mind?
I don't see anything related to the core in the blog in the soul / mind section.
Unless if it's specifically mentioned that he possessed him with his core element i don't see how that's used as an argument for the core element to possess their mind / soul.
Click to expand...
??

The Core Element explicitly contains one's will. It's straight-up stated as such. The Core Element is also stated to contain genetic code. The Jade Emperor's powers carried over to Mira via his genetic code, which INCLUDED R's soul and consciousness as R was able to talk to Mira through her having the Jade Emperor's cells.

Do these aspects not seem to connect to you in some way? Not even vaguely?
Hellscream said:
Also just like you said that the soul king would need feats of functioning on this level, soul king's reality warping was able to create beings with NEP.
Now my question to you is, can you provide proof of them being able to copy anything even remotely close to the almighty?
Because the examples of Jupiter being dropped won't cut it.
Click to expand...
Being able to even copy someone's abilities in general, especially the Jade Emperor's Mind, which is explicitly stored within the Core (as in, its stores within conceptual information jargon) means its not standard Power Mimicry. Satan/Mujin aren't just copying abilities via standard skills, it's a conceptual ability.

Even further supported by the fact Satan was capable of yoinking his wings back from Mujin during their final battle. Which, we both agree, is a manifestation of Satan's own fundamental existence. The functions of the ability itself supercede the need for specific feats.
 
azontr said:
That explains things.

??

The Core Element explicitly contains one's will. It's straight-up stated as such. The Core Element is also stated to contain genetic code. The Jade Emperor's powers carried over to Mira via his genetic code, which INCLUDED R's soul and consciousness as R was able to talk to Mira through her having the Jade Emperor's cells.

Do these aspects not seem to connect to you in some way? Not even vaguely?

Being able to even copy someone's abilities in general, especially the Jade Emperor's Mind, which is explicitly stored within the Core (as in, its stores within conceptual information jargon) means its not standard Power Mimicry. Satan/Mujin aren't just copying abilities via standard skills, it's a conceptual ability.

Even further supported by the fact Satan was capable of yoinking his wings back from Mujin during their final battle. Which, we both agree, is a manifestation of Satan's own fundamental existence. The functions of the ability itself supercede the need for specific feats.
Click to expand...
I'll reply to this later, kinda tired of being the only one to argue for the soul king.
Most likely due to the profile being trash.
 
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