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Dragon Ball Super Discussion Thread 100

If the Kaioshins create planets and lives, and the Gods of destruction destroy everything and such

Then the Gods of destruction insisted years of creation, Beerus in the manga mentions that before creation comes destruction.

And did the Kaioshins create the entire Dragon Ball Universe?

 
LuffyRuffy46307 said:
If the Kaioshins create planets and lives, and the Gods of destruction destroy everything and such

Then the Gods of destruction insisted years of creation, Beerus in the manga mentions that before creation comes destruction.

And did the Kaioshins create the entire Dragon Ball Universe?

Click to expand...

It's stated in Heroes that big bangs that births universes, although it's non-canon information

 
Phsccarvalho said:
This is because a new time line was created by altering beerus, it has nothing to do with hakai. This isn't even in the profile of guys who have hakai.
Click to expand...
No no, Beerus outright states that Hakai will alter the Future Timeline. Not create a new Timeline, but shape the next events. And according to Black, when they arrive to the future and POINT THIS OUT, Beerus was correct, Black was just IMMUNE to that change IN his history and became a LIVING PARADOX thanks to his Time Ring, essentially bypassing the Temporal/Causal Effects Hakai has on time. At least in Anime. The Manga's variation of events is slightly different and doesn't include this. However, the point remains nonetheless.
 
ChronoULT said:
It's stated in Heroes that big bangs that births universes, although it's non-canon information

Click to expand...

LuffyRuffy46307 said:
If the Kaioshins create planets and lives, and the Gods of destruction destroy everything and such

Then the Gods of destruction insisted years of creation, Beerus in the manga mentions that before creation comes destruction.

And did the Kaioshins create the entire Dragon Ball Universe?

Click to expand...

Beerus was refering the Big bang when he said that "before creation comes destruction", so maybe a big bang created the DB universe?
 
RedReaper said:
No no, Beerus outright states that Hakai will alter the Future Timeline. Not create a new Timeline, but shape the next events. And according to Black, when they arrive to the future and POINT THIS OUT, Beerus was correct, Black was just IMMUNE to that change IN his history and became a LIVING PARADOX thanks to his Time Ring, essentially bypassing the Temporal/Causal Effects Hakai has on time. At least in Anime. The Manga's variation of events is slightly different and doesn't include this. However, the point remains nonetheless.
Click to expand...
this is more so Hakai ignoring the "changes in the past makes time diverge into a new timeline" than anything else, it would be limited causality manipulation at best, specially since we know the past of Zamasu wasn't erased
 
RedReaper said:
No no, Beerus outright states that Hakai will alter the Future Timeline. Not create a new Timeline, but shape the next events. And according to Black, when they arrive to the future and POINT THIS OUT, Beerus was correct, Black was just IMMUNE to that change IN his history and became a LIVING PARADOX thanks to his Time Ring, essentially bypassing the Temporal/Causal Effects Hakai has on time. At least in Anime. The Manga's variation of events is slightly different and doesn't include this. However, the point remains nonetheless.
Click to expand...
This is something that is not in the profiles, so it makes no difference to Goku vs Reinhard.

In addition to what Omega said.
 
omegabronic said:
this is more so Hakai ignoring the "changes in the past makes time diverge into a new timeline" than anything else, it would be limited causality manipulation at best, specially since we know the past of Zamasu wasn't erased
Click to expand...
The Past Version of Zamasu WAS erased. He was totally deleted.

What survived was Black, who was free from that Death via the Time Ring.

Second, to get the transcript:

DUB: "When I kill a God, it affects all flows of time."

SUB: "When a God kills another god, there's no way space-time won't be unaffected."

So the intent or implication isn't that it's ignoring the rules of creating new Timelines, (in fact, the Time Ring itself FORCES Beerus to create a new timeline by killing Zamasu and preventing the GoD's kill from affecting the Future), and more just straight up being an attack that works beyond "space-time" or directly affects "space-time." Again, within the context of the Anime.

Edit: And if you mean in the sense that Beerus intended that the Future of the Present Timeline, that is incorrect. He was specifically referring to it affecting TRUNKS' Future. So not that, either.
 
Last edited:
RedReaper said:
The Past Version of Zamasu WAS erased. He was totally deleted.
Click to expand...
Ok then, how does everyone remember Zamasu then if he never existed, thus they never met him?

RedReaper said:
Second, to get the transcript:

DUB: "When I kill a God, it affects all flows of time."
Click to expand...
the dub sure is more impressive

RedReaper said:
SUB: "When a God kills another god, there's no way space-time won't be unaffected."

So the intent or implication isn't that it's ignoring the rules of creating new Timelines, (in fact, the Time Ring itself FORCES Beerus to create a new timeline by killing Zamasu and preventing the GoD's kill from affecting the Future), and more just straight up being an attack that works beyond "space-time" or directly affects "space-time." Again, within the context of the Anime.
Click to expand...
the Zamasu Beerus erase was the Zamasu that would steal Goku's body, so in context what he means is that, contrary to normal time travel, when a god kills another space time doesn't diverge into another timeline, but works the mode standard "change past = change future" with Black only not being affected because his time ring makes his present self be unnafected by his past self

RedReaper said:
Edit: And if you mean in the sense that Beerus intended that the Future of the Present Timeline, that is incorrect. He was specifically referring to it affecting TRUNKS' Future. So not that, either.
Click to expand...
No idea what you mean here?
 
omegabronic said:
Ok then, how does everyone remember Zamasu then if he never existed, thus they never met him?


the dub sure is more impressive


the Zamasu Beerus erase was the Zamasu that would steal Goku's body, so in context what he means is that, contrary to normal time travel, when a god kills another space time doesn't diverge into another timeline, but works the mode standard "change past = change future" with Black only not being affected because his time ring makes his present self be unnafected by his past self


No idea what you mean here?
Click to expand...
I might be wrong but didn't anime explain that since past version of zamasu had a time ring that's why he was unaffected by the hakai killing him in the present
 
omegabronic said:
Ok then, how does everyone remember Zamasu then if he never existed, thus they never met him?


the dub sure is more impressive


the Zamasu Beerus erase was the Zamasu that would steal Goku's body, so in context what he means is that, contrary to normal time travel, when a god kills another space time doesn't diverge into another timeline, but works the mode standard "change past = change future" with Black only not being affected because his time ring makes his present self be unnafected by his past self


No idea what you mean here?
Click to expand...
Zeno also nuked a timeline and everyone still remembers Zamasu and everything that happened there, sooooo
Heroes Zamasu has High Godly due to Zeno's history wipe
 
omegabronic said:
Ok then, how does everyone remember Zamasu then if he never existed, thus they never met him?
Click to expand...
The Time Ring explicitly kept him alive despite the actions that occur.
omegabronic said:
the dub sure is more impressive
Click to expand...
The point remains across both TLs-The move works across time.
omegabronic said:
the Zamasu Beerus erase was the Zamasu that would steal Goku's body, so in context what he means is that, contrary to normal time travel, when a god kills another space time doesn't diverge into another timeline, but works the mode standard "change past = change future" with Black only not being affected because his time ring makes his present self be unnafected by his past self
Click to expand...
Yes-Which explicitly includes things like Trunks. Trunks himself points out he should have disappeared if Beerus was correct. And we learn Beerus WAS correct. The Time Ring just made Black immune to all changes in Time, meaning even his actions/existence are still remembered. and thus Trunks stayed as a consequence. Living Paradox.
omegabronic said:
No idea what you mean here?
Click to expand...
I'll leave this alone because it wasn't what you meant.
 
Killerdrone123 said:
Yep that's why the whole new timeline created happen
Click to expand...
Ok then, thanks for clarifying, Yeah that is what happened, the time ring protects you from changes of your past

Adem_Warlock69 said:
Zeno also nuked a timeline and everyone still remembers Zamasu and everything that happened there, sooooo
Heroes Zamasu has High Godly due to Zeno's history wipe
Click to expand...
Zeno having a contradiction doesn't add much to solving the problem
 
RedReaper said:
The Time Ring explicitly kept him alive despite the actions that occur.
Click to expand...
What about his past selves that didn't had a time ring?

RedReaper said:
The point remains across both TLs-The move works across time.
Click to expand...
No because the japanese one means a completely different thing in context, while the dub is clear cut in what it says

RedReaper said:
Yes-Which explicitly includes things like Trunks. Trunks himself points out he should have disappeared if Beerus was correct. And we learn Beerus WAS correct. The Time Ring just made Black immune to all changes in Time, meaning even his actions/existence are still remembered.
Click to expand...
aka it made black immune to changes in his own timeline of events, thus forcing the timeline to split as normally happens in contrary to what Beerus said would happen

RedReaper said:
I'll leave this alone because it wasn't what you meant.
Click to expand...
Ok then
 
omegabronic said:
Zeno having a contradiction doesn't add much to solving the problem
Click to expand...
But there ISN'T a contradiction? Zeno isn't stated to be able to manipulate the events of Time like Beerus can. And even if we assumed he could, nuking an entire timeline doesn't create a paradox between another timeline's past, present, and future.

And again, the Time Ring prevented Hakai from taking affect, so any and all things that still existed afterwards are not contradictions. They are the consequences of the Time Ring.
 
RedReaper said:
But there ISN'T a contradiction? Zeno isn't stated to be able to manipulate the events of Time like Beerus can. And even if we assumed he could, nuking an entire timeline doesn't create a paradox between another timeline's past, present, and future.
Click to expand...
Ok

RedReaper said:
And again, the Time Ring prevented Hakai from taking affect, so any and all things that still existed afterwards are not contradictions. They are the consequences of the Time Ring.
Click to expand...
The hakai is not what ia said to be doing that, Beerus explicitly says that it was the act of one god killing another god, not the hakai
 
omegabronic said:
What about his past selves that didn't had a time ring?
Click to expand...
Black himself states he IS that same Zamasu. By wearing the Time Ring he becomes immune to changes in his history and a Living Paradox. Then by appearing in the Present Timeline he creates the reason they leave to meet said Zamasu-As in, the consequences of his actions (as well as a Bootstrap Paradox). Which, as pointed out by Trunks, includes the Hybrid himself.

In Summary: Black, his actions, and consequences are not affected by Hakai because Time Ring.

Black's Actions (Black's Arrival in the Past, cannot be altered by Hakai) -> Black's Consequences (Goku Meets Zamasu, cannot be altered by Hakai) -> This creates Black, who wears the Time Ring (Cannot be erased by Hakai) ----> (Eventually) Black arrives to the Past. Repeat ad infinitum.
omegabronic said:
No because the japanese one means a completely different thing in context, while the dub is clear cut in what it says
Click to expand...
The point of it affecting Trunks' Timeline is the same. Which was the initial point I was making.
omegabronic said:
aka it made black immune to changes in his own timeline of events, thus forcing the timeline to split as normally happens in contrary to what Beerus said would happen
Click to expand...
Which is not a contradiction.
 
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