Despair vs the Undespairing (Not sure if this is a real word, and is probally wrong)

[Fezzih_007]

Junko got blasted to the Re:ZERO world, and cause a little crazy there with Monokuma, including putting Emilia in despair temporally. Subaru kinda pissed, decides to take revenge, and the both of them got blasted to the Dangaronpa world. Subaru knows someone is controlling Monokuma, but don't know is Junko.

Fights takes place in hope peak academy
Speed is equal
Junko is controlling Monokuma
Subaru is just outside the building, while Junko is at the control room
Subaru has 1 day of preparation, and acess to the map of hope peak and access to Beatrice, and patrache.

Votes:
The Chad and his daughter destroy despair: SatellaTheWoE

The Despair diva says "Is despair time" and despair all over the place:

Inco:

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

what are the winconcs?
Edit: still waiting

 

[Fezzih_007]

This should be good.

So how the fight could go. When the battle start, Subaru would need to enter Hope Peak, so he need to pass the metal door, from outside, that have gautling guns waiting for him. That's not really problem because if he dies, he can comeback. After dealing with the guns by destroying them before they fire, he would need to deal with the army of Monokumas.

Thas't the hard part for Subaru and Beatrice.

First, Junko can control up to 100 of them at the same time, and all of them can just one-shot Subaru, Beatrice and Patrache. Second, In terms of combat skill, they complete darf Subaru team, and dodge all they attack with Analytical Prediction. Third, they can also self-destruct to take down all of them. Fouth, with this numbers they can totally overhelm Subaru and and make him tire himself out until he loses his stamina and mana. Fifth, Subaru can't really demage to Monouma. so he would need to rely on her spirit, and most of Beatrice attacks not gonna work against Monokuma, besides Al Shamak and Minya. Sixth, Monokuma is really good at talking shit, so he can rally Subaru.

For Subaru advantages in this fight, Beatrice can cast up to 40 magic arrows that stop time, so even if she hits them, a explosion not gonna occur, and he can take down most of them with her Danmaku. They also have a temporaly way to became invincible, and since Patrache is with them, they can easily escape for the other floors because she slight faster. And since Junko rely on her cameras to see what's going on, if they destroy them, they would render her vision a little. And lastly, Subaru is immortal so he can take all the time to finally reach out Junko.

So, it seems at first the Monokuma army would pretty much destroy Subaru at the first loops that took place, but little by little with his infinite retries, Subaru would eventually be able to win against Monokuma army, and reaches Junko. That's one of the ways Subaru could win. Even trought is gonna be hard and take forever, he could hold back all of them until he reaches the control room, and kill Junko.

So how Junko could win? Well, Junko is the Ultimate Analyst, and pretty much the smartest Dangan character, so after seeing Subaru for a while, she could figure it out eventually about Subaru RbD, and realize that killing Subaru is pointless, so she would use her other methods of winning besides killing. Since she is infinitely smarter than him, and Monokuma have higher LS, she can easily just restrain him, and drag him into room so she can do all the worst to him. She can social influence him to give the fight, she can use memory manipulation to make him forget, he can brainwash him with Acupuncture, she can use her videos to drive him to despair, etec;,,,

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

First, due to arc 7 i think we can say safely that for some weird reason Subaru can actually fight for a very long time with beatrice now (which seems like a total retcon imo), its not gonna be that hard for him to perfectly destroy all 100 of them in a couple of loops
Second, There has been no known person in rz who has figured out rbd from just how Subaru acts. People are much more likely to assume he has some form of precognition instead and it will also be actively hard for them to stop Subaru from killing himself to reset the loop
For those reasons i will be voting for Subaru

 

[Fezzih_007]

First, due to arc 7 i think we can say safely that for some weird reason Subaru can actually fight for a very long time with beatrice now (which seems like a total retcon imo), its not gonna be that hard for him to perfectly destroy all 100 of them in a couple of loops

Arc 7 Subaru, who we don't have a Key yet, so is not accepted by the wiki, so we can't use here. So he really don't count.

Second, There has been no known person in rz who has figured out rbd from just how Subaru acts.

Junko would. She extremely smart, would't take 5 (on her perspective) minutes for her to figure It out by watching how he acts. She is that good, check her feats.

Also, is not really that hard to figure It out something like that, by how many hints Subaru gives.

People are much more likely to assume he has some form of precognition instead and it will also be actively hard for them to stop Subaru from killing himself to reset the loop

Subaru don't really likes to kill himself, so i don't think he would.

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

Arc 7 Subaru, who we don't have a Key yet, so is not accepted by the wiki, so we can't use here. So he really don't count.

They are the same Subaru? He hasnt gained any new power??

Junko would. She extremely smart, would't take 5 (on her perspective) minutes for her to figure It out by watching how he acts. She is that good, check her feats.

I looked at her profile and aside from basic stuff she doesnt seem to have any good feats that would let her instantly figure out rbd, I also found some weaknesses:

Purposely leaves flaws in her plans, so there is a small chance her plan will fail and she herself will be consumed by despair.

This will absolutely be utilized by Subaru

she hates anything to do with hope

Is this a power or does she generally doesnt understand the concept of hope? Because in that case Subaru would be her greatest enemy

As such, she is able to predict virtually anything that comes her way unless it is completely outside of comprehension and understanding that she has witnessed

Rbd is something she has never witnessed and would absolutely be something outside of her comprehension

Also, is not really that hard to figure It out something like that, by how many hints Subaru gives.

She is much more likely to assume he has some form of precognition as i said above

Subaru don't really likes to kill himself, so i don't think he would.

He does kill himself if he needs to though?

 

[Fezzih_007]

They are the same Subaru?

They are, but Arc 7/8 Subaru is not a thing yet on the wiki, so his feat there don't apply here yet. Is not so much is not on his profile, is more because is not accepted yet.

He hasnt gained any new power??

He did, remember that "We are invincible" ability he was using to buff the pleiades? Is probally why he have so many Mana to use. Even Beatrice as surprised when she sees the amount of Mana he have.

I looked at her profile and aside from basic stuff she doesnt seem to have any good feats that would let her instantly figure out rbd

I din't say instantly, but she would still figure It out relatively pretty fast. Also, she don't even need to figure It out RbD, she can just as easily Social Influence Subaru.

This will absolutely be utilized by Subaru

I don't think you know what exactly that means, because yes, she does leaves some flaws on her plans, but is not to the point that would be easily able to take her down.

One example, is when she challenges one of characters to go get a Button that a Monokuma is holding that opens that door to escape the place they in. They have 15 seconds to catch the Button, and they have to pass a corridor that have explosives. And the flaw in all that is that the Button is actually the real one, instead of a a fake one. So usually, this flaws are very small, is just enough to give a little Hope, so she can give you despair.

Is this a power

No, is just a exagerated form of Hope, is not really a superpower.

or does she generally doesnt understand the concept of hope?

She does, she just get annoyed by the concept.

Because in that case Subaru would be her greatest enemy

lol

Rbd is something she has never witnessed and would absolutely be something outside of her comprehension

That weakness really only applies to Makoto lucks, that is nonsense, RbD don't have the same luxury that make Makoto luck a weakness to her.

She is much more likely to assume he has some form of precognition as i said above

Yeah, but she would be able to figure out the method by reading his expression, the way he act, talks, moves.

Like, seeing his expression after dying would clue her in already about his ability.

He does kill himself if he needs to though?

He stop doing that after Arc 4. Also, Junko can stop him from killing himself by knocking him out.

 

[Fezzih_007]

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[SatellaTheWoE]

They are, but Arc 7/8 Subaru is not a thing yet on the wiki, so his feat there don't apply here yet. Is not so much is not on his profile, is more because is not accepted yet.

Same Subaru

He did, remember that "We are invincible" ability he was using to buff the pleiades? Is probally why he have so many Mana to use. Even Beatrice as surprised when she sees the amount of Mana he have.

Do you mean Cor Leonis?
He already has that as well

I din't say instantly, but she would still figure It out relatively pretty fast. Also, she don't even need to figure It out RbD, she can just as easily Social Influence Subaru.

Again, saying he can go back in time is a jump in conclusion instead of thinking he has some form of precog instead

I don't think you know what exactly that means, because yes, she does leaves some flaws on her plans, but is not to the point that would be easily able to take her down.

One example, is when she challenges one of characters to go get a Button that a Monokuma is holding that opens that door to escape the place they in. They have 15 seconds to catch the Button, and they have to pass a corridor that have explosives. And the flaw in all that is that the Button is actually the real one, instead of a a fake one. So usually, this flaws are very small, is just enough to give a little Hope, so she can give you despair.

Infinite retries gg

No, is just a exagerated form of Hope, is not really a superpower.

She does, she just get annoyed by the concept.

Subaru being her epitome of annoance would be pretty based ngl

lol

That weakness really only applies to Makoto lucks, that is nonsense, RbD don't have the same luxury that make Makoto luck a weakness to her.

Why is it specifically her weakness?

Yeah, but she would be able to figure out the method by reading his expression, the way he act, talks, moves.

Like, seeing his expression after dying would clue her in already about his ability.

Or yk, she would infer that he saw some tragedies due to some form of precog.

He stop doing that after Arc 4. Also, Junko can stop him from killing himself by knocking him out.

He does do it if its necessary or if it leads to a bad future

 

[Fezzih_007]

Do you mean Cor Leonis?

No.

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

No.

I have no clue which ability you are talking about then

 

[Zabazab]

He did, remember that "We are invincible" ability he was using to buff the pleiades?

This is Cor Leonis.

 

[Fezzih_007]

This is Cor Leonis.

I talking about the other ability he using with Cor Leonis. Which, now that i think about i kinda wrong for bringing up in my example, since Subaru is also using It, but he can't use that ability by himself.
My bad.

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

I talking about the other ability he using with Cor Leonis. Which, now that i think about i kinda wrong for bringing up in my example, since Subaru is also using It, but he can't use that ability by himself.
My bad.

I think you meant the yang magic buff he got from soneone that he shared with everybody else?

 

[Zabazab]

I think you meant the yang magic buff he got from soneone that he shared with everybody else?

There was no Yang Magic buff. It was Magical Shroud Excitation, a natural phenomenon which causes an instinctive use of the Flow Method that can normally only occur in very small, very closely-bonded groups. Cor Leonis allowed this phenomenon to occur on a normally-impossible massive scale.

But anyways, that application can only happen in a group setting.

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

There was no Yang Magic buff. It was Magical Shroud Excitation, a natural phenomenon which causes an instinctive use of the Flow Method that can normally only occur in very small, very closely-bonded groups. Cor Leonis allowed this phenomenon to occur on a normally-impossible massive scale.

But anyways, that application can only happen in a group setting.

Curse Jake for making it seem like it was all yang magic being uncontrollable!!

 

[Fezzih_007]

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[Fezzih_007]

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[Undylan]

From what I know and understand from past Subaru matches. He has huge willpower who won't give up no matter what. Especially if we take those IF routes into consideration in how far he'll go. So perhaps maybe Junko's SI could not work in this case. Of course, the despair videos and the other hax she provide will led her to victory since even if Subaru always comes back. He'll still be under the effect of her despair.

Altough there is a question of his willpower since Subaru himself I believed went though lots of despair and suffering that not sure if Junko's despair will work at all. But I do lend towards with Junko since she does has the intellectual advantage unless she's being really cocky.

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

From what I know and understand from past Subaru matches. He has huge willpower who won't give up no matter what. Especially if we take those IF routes into consideration in how far he'll go. So perhaps maybe Junko's SI could not work in this case. Of course, the despair videos and the other hax she provide will led her to victory since even if Subaru always comes back. He'll still be under the effect of her despair.
Altough there is a question of his willpower since Subaru himself I believed went though lots of despair and suffering that not sure if Junko's despair will work at all. But I do lend towards with Junko since she does has the intellectual advantage unless she's being really cocky.

Btw to give you a bit more context, "Death" in re zero is even more brutal than normal death as another character with Supernatural willpower became brain dead after having to go through the first 10-15 deaths of Subaru
And he stopped counting after hitting 100 million deaths in greed if

 

[Undylan]

Btw to give you a bit more context, "Death" in re zero is even more brutal than normal death as another character with Supernatural willpower became brain dead after having to go through the first 10-15 deaths of Subaru
And he stopped counting after hitting 100 million deaths in greed if

Then I genuinely don't think Subaru could possibly be affected by Junko's despair if taking Greed IF as something canon Subaru could possibly scale from as a whole.

 

[Fezzih_007]

Then I genuinely don't think Subaru could possibly be affected by Junko's despair if taking Greed IF as something canon Subaru could possibly scale from as a whole.

He really don't scale to his greed If self, since that Subaru and the Canon one are very different. They treat they deaths very different. Like, one of the characters as like "Man, i wonder If gonna rain today" Then Greed!Subaru would live that full day, then die, just to go back and answer that question.

The Canon Subaru actually care about being alive.

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

He really don't scale to his greed If self, since that Subaru and the Canon one are very different. They treat they deaths very different. Like, one of the characters as like "Man, i wonder If gonna rain today" Then Greed!Subaru would live that full day, then die, just to go back and answer that question.

The Canon Subaru actually care about being alive.

However their supernatural willpower to withstand that many deaths would still remain the same as they have the same mental strength

 

[Fezzih_007]

However their supernatural willpower to withstand that many deaths would still remain the same as they have the same mental strength

Ehhhhhh, i don't know about they having the same mental strenght.

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

I have finished danganronpa and can safely claim that she is getting rbd stomped here

 

[Fezzih_007]

I have finished danganronpa and can safely claim that she is getting rbd stomped here

She sure.... 'yawn' does.