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plot manipulation vs layers

Robo432343

Robo432343

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character A has plot manip

character B has layers where you need 4 layers of CM interaction to interact with him

can character A use his plot manip to make it so that character B is interactable?
 
The character with Plot hax must have a feat in verse that affects type 1 concepts. Otherwise, plot hax cannot interact this character in any way.

Because haxs like concept hax, plot hax and info hax basically work on the same principle. The feat in the verse decides which one is superior
 
Georredannea15 said:
If this type 1 cm in the verse isn't 4 layers, I guess this plot hax still can't affect.
Click to expand...
btw if plot hax can't affect CM 1 4 layers (due to lack of feat) and CM 1 (4 layers) does not have feat to affect plot hax (0 layers), would that mean the battle is inconclusive ?
 
Livinmeme said:
Lol no, CM layers only protect from CM itself, not plot manipulation
Click to expand...
No. I explained it simply above, haxs like plot, info and cm all work on the same principle. So we can't say that one is superior or influences the other unless it's a feat.

That's why plot hax couldn't interact with this 4 layered concept. So, a 4 layered AE type 1 ( type 1 cm)
 
Georredannea15 said:
No. I explained it simply above, haxs like plot, info and cm all work on the same principle. So we can't say that one is superior or influences the other unless it's a feat.

That's why plot hax couldn't interact with this 4 layered concept. So, a 4 layered AE type 1 ( type 1 cm)
Click to expand...
You only have resistence to CM, not plot mainp, having resistence to CM doesn't give you resistence to all of the metaphysical aspects
 
Andika_CL_atmadja said:
btw if plot hax can't affect CM 1 4 layers (due to lack of feat) and CM 1 (4 layers) does not have feat to affect plot hax (0 layers), would that mean the battle is inconclusive ?
Click to expand...
More precisely, if the character with plot hax also has a type 1 cm resistance, both cannot affect each other.
 
I mean that after the ctr that changes how plot manip works, If you want to use plot manip to affect concepts you would need concept manip.
If you want to use plot manip to affect laws you would need law manip.
Having plot manip doesn't give you resistance to the other hax either.

I don't understand what advantage plot manip gives you, it's literally garbage now.
 
Wesker018 said:
I mean that after the ctr that changes how concept manip works, If you want to use Concept to affect plot you would need plot manip.
If you want to use concept manip to affect laws you would need law manip.
Being able to manipulate concepts does not give you resistance against concept manip either.

I don't understand what advantage concept manip gives you, it's literally garbage now.
Click to expand...
 
Tanin_iver said:
Character A is interacting with B's plot or narrative not its concept, so yeah it should work irrespective of concept layers.
Click to expand...
The problem here is that the character itself is the concept. So it has to interact with the concept first. If there were no concept, yes that would be true
 
but the concept manip is something much more common in fiction. The plot manip is something very rare. It's literally breaking the story you're in. I can't think of any story that goes depth into how this hax works besides scp that talks about narratives and all that shit. (adressed to livinmeme)
 
Wesker018 said:
but the concept manip is something much more common in fiction. The plot manip is something very rare. It's literally breaking the story you're in. I can't think of any story that goes depth into how this hax works besides scp that talks about narratives and all that shit.
Click to expand...
That depends on the context of the verse
 
Verses that use plot manip as something relevant to solving problems are a minority and normally powerscaling verses, characters that have plot manip will currently become useless since they have practically no advantage with them.
Let's use Arale as an example, she left her comic and rewrote it (or something like that, I don't remember very well lol). What advantages does the ability give her? Obviously the story doesn't focus on detailing how plot manipulation works, it wouldn't make sense.
 
Georredannea15 said:
The problem here is that the character itself is the concept. So it has to interact with the concept first.
Click to expand...
So the dilemma is between a character B who is CM1 AE1 and a character A who has plot manip but not CM1 manip? Hmm, this is a bit blurry. CM1 guy's plot can still be manipped is what I would like to say regardless of his abstract status, but so can the AE be wanked. Well we do need a consensus on this.
 
Tanin_iver said:
So the dilemma is between a character B who is CM1 AE1 and a character A who has plot manip but not CM1 manip? Hmm, this is a bit blurry. CM1 guy's plot can still be manipped is what I would like to say regardless of his abstract status, but so can the AE be wanked. Well we do need a consensus on this.
Click to expand...
I guess that's why a revision was opened. I mean, which metaphysical aspects the plot hax can affect in the verse. This can basically be categorized into different aspect types depending on the verse.

It would be healthier that way.
 
Tanin_iver said:
So the dilemma is between a character B who is CM1 AE1 and a character A who has plot manip but not CM1 manip? Hmm, this is a bit blurry. CM1 guy's plot can still be manipped is what I would like to say regardless of his abstract status, but so can the AE be wanked. Well we do need a consensus on this.
Click to expand...
If this was CM 2 this would be different story since that's bound to reality where CM1 is kinda the latter. But I can understand the weird distance between plot and reality where certain Physiologies have a immunity to these types of hax. In this case bringing up layers is definitely irrelevant since it's just a AE vs plot manipulation question.
 
Robo432343 said:
character A has plot manip

character B has layers where you need 4 layers of CM interaction to interact with him

can character A use his plot manip to make it so that character B is interactable?
Click to expand...
I don't know about making them be interactable, but I always interpret stuff like this as Plot winning by simply affecting their plot. If your NEP doesn't include plot, I don't know how you would defend it.
 
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