Architect (Shadow Fight) Rework

[Richard5128pm]

Hello. Architect is the game developer who is responsible for the creation of Shadow Fight 2, he seemingly has absolute control over the game, as we see him communicate with the player via game notifications + threaten the player with complete deletion of the game altogether. It is clear that he views the cosmology as just a video game, which is a R>F thing. Now, coming to his in-game appearance, he appears as a "Director", a film director to be precise, the entire game seems to be a script to him, not a video game. Architect's in-game avatar invades the world of shadow fights; he is able to grant himself the power of his characters (the Eternals), he is able to shoot beams out of his chest, grow large tentacles out of his back, similar to how the fictional characters can, he gets scaled to his creation via plot manipulation, as he is implied to be capable of rewriting the entire shadow fight world. Now, it is clear that data manipulation (the hax which would be used to delete the game altogether) is very different from plot manipulation (the ability to rewrite narratives to your own favour). Architect must receive two keys (Film director | Game developer), the film director key is for his in-game avatar who views the world of shadow fight as a script, a figment of his mind. The Game developer key is for the real Architect who views the cosmology as an actual game, rather than a script, a game which he can easily delete if he wishes to. And ofcourse, the game developer will have r>f transcendence.

• Creation with Data Manipulation (Architect is described multiple times to be the maker of the characters and world of Shadow Fight 2)

• Existence Erasure with Data Manipulation (Architect threatens the Player with deleting the game Shadow Fight 2 should they not attempt to stop him from doing so [1])

These above abilities will be shifted to Architect's Game developer key, along with Avatar creation and Beyond-Dimensional Existence (exists in the real world. logically speaking, it has to be beyond the fictional world's dimensionality via r>f transcendence).

AGREE - @VoidWalker777, @Astral_Trinity439, @Dashio_Tessai
DISAGREE -

 

[VoidWalker777]

I Agree

 

[Richard5128pm]

I Agree

Noted
In addition, I made a sandbox profile to demonstrate the changes. You can check that out for more context.

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

Agree with the CRT, seems simpIe enough, except:

and Higher-Dimensional Existence (exists in the real world. logically speaking, it has to be above the fictional world's dimensionality via r>f transcendence).

We do not give HDE to RF transcendence, we give them Beyond-DimensionaI Existence Type 2 by defauIt.

the entire game seems to be a script to him

a figment of his mind

That, aIso, by the way, is technicaIIy RF transcendence there.

AIso, I suppose the director key wiII have pIot manipuIation because of viewing the worId as a script that is his pIaything from a reaIity-fiction point of view?

 

[Richard5128pm]

We do not give HDE to RF transcendence, we give them Beyond-DimensionaI Existence Type 2 by defauIt.

Oh I see, I'll update the OP

That, aIso, by the way, is technicaIIy RF transcendence there.

Technically speaking, it is R>F transcendence, but the in-game avatar shares continuity with his fictional world, which completely killed his chances.

AIso, I suppose the director key wiII have pIot manipuIation because of viewing the worId as a script that is his pIaything from a reaIity-fiction point of view?

He does have plot manipulation in his profile.

Plot Manipulation with Reality Warping (As the science fiction writer and author of Shadow Fight 2's script, Architect is responsible for being the true maker and inventor of the fictional characters of Shadow Fight 2, who are playthings in his mischievous hands and are threatened with unpredictable problems whenever he becomes bored. Along with said characters being created by Architect, all the adventures they've experienced so far are nothing more than a figment of his spoiled mind, with Architect knowing all of the characters' moves due to him having invented them, and also Architect being able to make his characters do the impossible such as when he made the mute Shadow talk and explaining this by stating that "Everything's possible in the creator's head". Additionally, upon reaching the conclusion that the figures of his invented characters have grown stale, Architect decided that he was going to rewrite their world from scratch to make it contemporary, creative and relevant again for a new audience of teenagers, in which characters like Shadow would get a new life

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

Technically speaking, it is R>F transcendence, but the in-game avatar shares continuity with his fictional world, which completely killed his chances.

You mean the director being abIe to exist in game? Thats not rare if the director is somehow Iowering his existence to interact with everyone eIse, which we assume by defauIt that a 1-A being can Iower himseIf to non 1-A via quaIitative reduction

He does have plot manipulation in his profile.

oh, aIright.

 

[Dashio_Tessai]

Looks alright to me, sure. Initially I also considered this same approach for his profile, although I abandoned that thought because I assumed I was overanalyzing his character. Looking back at it again, this makes sense to me.

 

[Richard5128pm]

You mean the director being abIe to exist in game? Thats not rare if the director is somehow Iowering his existence to interact with everyone eIse, which we assume by defauIt that a 1-A being can Iower himseIf to non 1-A via quaIitative reduction

I'm not sure about this one, I tried using this argument in the last CRT, but the staff were against it.

I have a question tho, what tier would R>F transcendence over BDE(Type 2) give you? The void upgrade is still going on (waiting for ultima)

 

[TWILIGHT-OP]

as we see him communicate with the player via game notifications + threaten the player with complete deletion of the game altogether.

These looks like pre-designed notification messages intended to re-engage players who have been inactive for an extended period. It's just a fun and creative way to remind them to come back and play. I am unsure to use these as a basis for tier 1 upgrade much less low 1-A / BDE - 2.

 

[Dark_Soul20189]

Just gonna ask it here, is there any new arguments from the last three times? Gonna ignore the QnA one.
That were either ignored or rejected.

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

I'm not sure about this one, I tried using this argument in the last CRT, but the staff were against it.

Im not really sure where a single staff got that from, but I am pretty sure and have some examples of verses getting accepted for 1-A via just one or two RF statements, as long as it had the right meaning to it. And per vsbw standards on their page itself:

Potential mediums for viewing a cosmology as fiction include: written media (Books or stories), images (Paintings, comics, or movies), data (Simulations or video games), or mental constructs (thoughts or dreams). All of the above would be considered less 'real' than the person who views the cosmology as such, and can directly imply qualitative superiority. Note that the medium is usually a representation or container for the fiction on a higher plane and not necessarily the fiction in itself.

Not only is the world a script to the director but also a figment of his imagination, aka an imaginary or mental construct.

Tho, quoting a person from one of the threads the person above me linked:

Unless I’m missing something, I don’t think the architect actually exists on a higher scale than the game itself. It seems more like the architect just treats the world around him as his imagination, and has author like control over it. Which is close but not exactly the same as being on a higher dimension which treats the lower as fiction.

However, I think if the architect seen within the game was only like a manifestation of a true architect beyond the entire game that treats the game as fiction from a higher world, then it would probably be R>F for the true architect. Which honestly could be implied depending on how we interpret the statement about the architect “invading the game.” If he invaded the game by creating a lower version of himself to exists within the game then it’s R>F. If he didn’t do this, then I don’t think it’s R>F

That does seem like fitting for an author avatar, so if thats the case, its not RF between the director and the world, but just the architect and the world.

 

[Dark_Soul20189]

Also, where do I even start with this CRT...

I currently disagree with the 1A stuff, for the same reason that was stated in an earlier CRT, where it doesn't qualify as a R>F

Also, please get the ability descriptions up to standard, they lack both scans and references so I can't even confirm and judge them.

TLTR - Currently I disagree with everything.

 

[Richard5128pm]

These looks like pre-designed notification messages intended to re-engage players who have been inactive for an extended period. It's just a fun and creative way to remind them to come back and play.

That's the point of those notifications indeed, to capture the player's attention. But this is the only time the character gets to talk through the notifications. The statements are rather appropriate for architect too. He is the game's creator; he is an author figure, and he is implied to represent the devs/writers. This is a fun way of integrating into his character by establishing the fact that he can delete the game if he wishes so.
Not all messages were intended to make the players re-engage with the game, as the last message was just about his exit, I don't think that was supposed to catch any player's attention.

I am unsure to use these as a basis for tier 1 upgrade much less low 1-A / BDE - 2.

The notifications alone are not the basis for tier 1. The point is moreso that Architect is the creator of shadow fight 2 game, but to appear in his own fictional work, he inserts a fictional avatar of himself into the game (invades the world of Shadow Fight), similar to the writer from DC. These notifications only solidify that idea, as there's an obvious difference between a game developer and a director.

Just gonna ask it here, is there any new arguments from the last three times? Gonna ignore the QnA one.
That were either ignored or rejected.

Yes, the op (introducing Director and Game dev keys).

Im not really sure where a single staff got that from, but I am pretty sure and have some examples of verses getting accepted for 1-A via just one or two RF statements, as long as it had the right meaning to it.

Well, even if there are some direct statements for Architect, they all get dismissed somehow. It ain't easy to make upgrades for this verse in this forum. It also could've been because of adding shadow to those upgrades.

That does seem like fitting for an author avatar, so if thats the case, its not RF between the director and the world, but just the architect and the world.

Yeah after giving it some thought, I came to this conclusion. Because currently, the real world is on the same level as the game's world, for this verse
this OP tackles it.

I currently disagree with the 1A stuff, for the same reason that was stated in an earlier CRT, where it doesn't qualify as a R>F

The previous crts were rejected because they aimed to upgrade shadow along with architect, using architect's defeat to prove shadow's R>F transcendence.
This OP does not do that. Staff had different reasons to reject r>f transcendence, not all of them are valid here.
Antvasima proposed the same idea as this OP, in the previous thread.

I think that his in-verse powers seem much more limited relative to the verse than when he is in his own higher home reality, similarly to the Monitor brothers of DC Comics.

I think so, yes, given that if it wasn't in effect, or The Architect was just letting Shadow beat him by playing along with his own script, he could just have erased the entire setting that he created with a thought.
For example, if I remember correctly, Grant Morrison allowed Animal Man to beat a in-universe avatar of himself to death, only to pop up another avatar right afterwards while continuing to talk about the plot conventions of his story.

 

[Dark_Soul20189]

As mentioned, I Do not see any R>F with what you provided, and you didn't provide any additional scans As I requested...

Also, add me to the disagree section.

 

[Jepilstiltskin]

As mentioned, I Do not see any R>F with what you provided, and you didn't provide any additional scans As I requested...

Also, add me to the disagree section.

You can see all the R>F feats in here, scroll down.

 

[ActuallySpaceMan42]

What evidence is there of Avatar Creation, here?

 

[Richard5128pm]

What evidence is there of Avatar Creation, here?

The difference between True Architect and his in-game avatar suggests avatar creation. Architect is the Creator of Shadow Fight 2; he represents the game developers. The in-game avatar is also called the maker, but he invades the game's world as a sci-fi writer/scriptwriter.

 

[ActuallySpaceMan42]

That's not proof of Avatar Creation though.

 

[Richard5128pm]

That's not proof of Avatar Creation though.

If you're looking for a direct scan where architect talks about his avatar creation, I'm afraid there isn't one. My point is that if there's an entity who is equally as real as the player who plays the game, they can't physically step into the fictional world of the game, so they must be using a self-insert avatar to interact with the fictional world. But in most cases, we can't assume a true / realer self of the author's character exists, there must be some establishment or proof for it, which is where I bring the notifications, the game developer key I suggested is for the irl game developer who created shadow fight 2, whom architect represents.

 

[ActuallySpaceMan42]

There are two ways to go about this. Either they use an avatar (Which needs evidence), or they have Plot Manipulation, but no R > F.

 

[Richard5128pm]

Either they use an avatar (Which needs evidence), or they have Plot Manipulation, but no R > F.

There is one more point I'd like to make: Architect implies the whole world of Shadow Fight 2 is a mental construct of his, this is also hammered down in the event introduction (a figment of his mind), the verse is without a doubt less real than him, when we dream or imagine something, do we physically enter our imagination or do we use a manifestation of ourselves to interact with the imagination? The same can be applied to architect, because viewing something as a mental construct is an R>F thing to do.

Potential mediums for viewing a cosmology as fiction include: written media (Books or stories), images (Paintings, comics, or movies), data (Simulations or video games), or mental constructs (thoughts or dreams).

 

[Livinmeme]

These looks like pre-designed notification messages intended to re-engage players who have been inactive for an extended period. It's just a fun and creative way to remind them to come back and play. I am unsure to use these as a basis for tier 1 upgrade much less low 1-A / BDE - 2.

To be fair, those have an actual plot reason to exist

 

[Livinmeme]

I dont get how people are disagreeing to this, I mean, how can the creator, can access a world that is literally inside of his mind without an avatar?

 

[ActuallySpaceMan42]

I dont get how people are disagreeing to this, I mean, how can the creator, can access a world that is literally inside of his mind without an avatar?

By not being 1-A and violating the R > F interaction rule.

 

[Livinmeme]

By not being 1-A and violating the R > F interaction rule.

So he isn't 1-A because...He isn't 1-A, the alternative seems like a blatant example of circular logic.

 

[Livinmeme]

Can we just make it so the director has smurf hax, and make it so the director isnt the avatar of the creator, but rather a....uh....I dont know, friend, that being the reason he is able to use the creator powers?
It also helps that the director and the creator/architect are named differently (in the notifications scan), implying they are separated beings.

 

[ActuallySpaceMan42]

So he isn't 1-A because...He isn't 1-A, the alternative seems like a blatant example of circular logic.

What I'm saying is this.

We see a character who is directly called the Architect, the creator of the world, fighting his creations. He makes no statements saying he's an Avatar or this is some lower version of himself.

So, this leaves you with two possibilities: One, he's an Avatar, or Two, he's not qualitatively above his creations, as in, he's not 1-A.

I personally see hardly any evidence to support the Avatar idea.

 

[Richard5128pm]

So, this leaves you with two possibilities: One, he's an Avatar, or Two, he's not qualitatively above his creations, as in, he's not 1-A.

I personally see hardly any evidence to support the Avatar idea.

I'm curious about Astral_Trinity's Qualitative reduction idea, what do you think about it? Assuming the Author somehow invades the fictional world by reducing himself to it, we wouldn't have to ignore two R>F qualifiers (viewing the cosmology as a mental construct & viewing the cosmology as a video game). That way, the real world, the player and the author won't be on the same level as the fictional world.

You mean the director being abIe to exist in game? Thats not rare if the director is somehow Iowering his existence to interact with everyone eIse, which we assume by defauIt that a 1-A being can Iower himseIf to non 1-A via quaIitative reduction

 

[RigelBR7]

I agree. 1-A is valid.