A standard Issue for One Piece Speed

[Kachon123]

My vote is make it reaction and scale people to it like regular scaling works as.

So what we do currently with clear justifications.

This is such a weird way to go about updating old profiles but whatever. I can draft up a sandbox if needed.

 

[Dark_Soul20189]

So what we do currently with clear justifications.

This is such a weird way to go about profile updates but whatever. I can draft up a sandbox if needed.

Depends on what passes. If it gets fully nuked, we just go back to the next best option.

Though it becomes harder if it's just a reaction speed, since we need to evaluate if anyone can actually scale to it, and who would scale to it.

For example, neither Zala nor Nami would scale to it fully.

 

[Kachon123]

It's always been a reaction speed feat. I'm not sure how many times people have said this at this point.

 

[Duedate8898]

OP makes sense, I think the Zala feat should just be reaction as she's just perceiving the lightning.

Luffy's light feats are a little weird to me, but if he's only ever doing these single dodges in the scene it should probably getw bumped to reaction as well. Though, I'm not sure he's properly dodging in the first place. Or at least to the degree the calcs might imply. We're mostly getting shots of the lasers exploding against the ground and people flying after the fact unless we're thinking luffy is flying because he jumped. Those calcs are murky in general to me. Though I do believe we have the nono beam calcs and fight which can support those combat speed ratings.

That's just my feelings on the specifics. In terms of general speed of the verse I'm more unsure about how that's all going

 

[FinePoint]

Snip

Isn't this literally just saying you can scale their reaction speed to each other, not that you can equate it to their combat speed?

Anyway, looking at the additional context of the feat, I'm not sure it's even valid to begin with (it seems like they may be reacting to a charge-up or what's left behind of the lightning rather than lightning itself).

So I support nuking the feat entirely, and using whatever the next best scaling is.

I'm not one hundred percent sure, though, so I would also be fine keeping it but making sure it scales only to reaction speed at the very least.

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

Luffy's light feats are a little weird to me, but if he's only ever doing these single dodges in the scene it should probably getw bumped to reaction as well. Though, I'm not sure he's properly dodging in the first place. Or at least to the degree the calcs might imply. We're mostly getting shots of the lasers exploding against the ground and people flying after the fact unless we're thinking luffy is flying because he jumped. Those calcs are murky in general to me.

Don't know how you're even trying to entertain the idea those are only reaction speeds and that he isn't jumping away?

Luffy is literally both turning away and jumping from the laser line of fire while it's close range and is already in motion to him (Even while not knowing what it is beforehand) and then explosion afterwards

Ain't nothing murky about that, those are full on movement/combat speed feats

 

[Duedate8898]

Don't know how you're even trying to entertain the idea those are only reaction speeds and that he isn't jumping away?

Luffy is literally both turning away and jumping from the laser line of fire while it's close range and is already in motion to him (Even while not knowing what it is beforehand) and then explosion afterwards

Ain't nothing murky about that, those are full on movement/combat speed feats

You're misunderstanding why I'm calling them reactions feat if they're solid. Reactions feat account for a character dodging something. Please, go to the reaction page, and you'll see what I mean. Luffy turning to and then dodging an attack is strictly a reaction feat. Especially as both feats currently listed don't occur when Luffy is yet battling Pacifista's but before. He's not shown avoiding an array of these blast in quick succession either. So I don't believe that would count under Combat Speed.

That said, my actual issue is that it's just not really clear in the manga when or if he's exactly dodging the light. In order for these blast to be exploding as they do they have to either hit the ground or explode midair. Also the distant he's flying is liable to be a result of the explosions themselves. I understand the calcs currently work by just assuming that Luffy is only moving the distance of his leg, but the scenes themselves aren't that clear to me for me to agree confidently with him performing these feats.

 

[KingTempest]

Oh brother

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

That said, my actual issue is that it's just not really clear in the manga when or if he's exactly dodging the light. In order for these blast to be exploding as they do they have to either hit the ground or explode midair. Also the distant he's flying is liable to be a result of the explosions themselves. I understand the calcs currently work by just assuming that Luffy is only moving the distance of his leg, but the scenes themselves aren't that clear to me for me to agree confidently with him performing these feats.

Pacifista’s are taller than him, so they will hit the ground behind Luffy and explode when he jumps out of the way of the lasers line of fire… not that hard to understand

He doesn’t get hit by the laser that’s literally aimed at him and is traveling to him… that’s both shown and stated

Reactions feat account for a character dodging something. Please, go to the reaction page, and you'll see what I mean. Luffy turning to and then dodging an attack is strictly a reaction feat. Especially as both feats currently listed don't occur when Luffy is yet battling Pacifista's but before. He's not shown avoiding an array of these blast in quick succession either. So I don't believe that would count under Combat Speed.

This just isn’t true, the reaction page talks about you reacting beforehand and diving away from a car that’s moving towards you or ducking from the attack

Reaction speed is defined as a single movement in a defined timeframe

That’s completely different to Luffy not knowing the attack beforehand and is making many movements to move out the way of the lasers line of fire that’s coming in close range

 

[Duedate8898]

Apologies, I directed you towards the reactions page, I meant go to the speed page. This is a quote directly from its reaction section:

Reaction speed is the speed at which a character can react to an event or action. This usually only grants a short movement upon reaction, whereas several movements at the same speed switch it to combat speed.

For example, let's say that character A shoots at character B with a gun and character B dodges.

Also, unless there's a different Reaction page I don't know of, the reaction page also directly describes what I was saying, here's a quote from there:

Reaction speed is defined as a single movement in a defined timeframe, which a character has been shown capable of. A series of movements in similar timeframes makes this combat speed, so this term should only be applied for a single, quick movement.

And Luffy's not making many movements to avoid these attacks, he's at best just hopping out of the way. That's one movement, perfect to classify as a reaction feat.

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

And Luffy's not making many movements to avoid these attacks, he's at best just hopping out of the way. That's one movement, perfect to classify as a reaction feat.

Hopping away…

Luffy is turning to his side, and would have to squat and then jump and that’s after Luffy realizes that the attacking is coming at him close range

That’s not one movement at all

One movement would be ducking underneath the laser squatting

 

[KingTempest]

Why we acting like u gotta be in the matrix for a feat to be combat speed what the hell

 

[Dark_Soul20189]

Why we acting like u gotta be in the matrix for a feat to be combat speed what the hell

As I said before, our original disagreement was not due to us interpreting the feat indirectly, but rather our understanding of how we currently treat Reaction feats.

And no, this is me not trying to debate anything, only point out why we have different thoughts.

 

[Dark_Soul20189]

OP makes sense, I think the Zala feat should just be reaction as she's just perceiving the lightning.

Also, I think you misunderstand the feat. What they are arguing for is not the "able to perceive lightning", but rather the fact that she turns her head around.

I have explained it better here and here.

 

[Antvasima]

I think that KingTempest makes sense here. It seems to be combat speed, not just eye movement or thinking speed reactions.

 

[Damage3245]

I think that KingTempest makes sense here. It seems to be combat speed, not just eye movement or thinking speed reactions.

Reaction speed isn't limited to just eye movement or thinking.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. Maybe I am mistaken then. I will wait and see a bit.

 

[Duedate8898]

Also, I think you misunderstand the feat. What they are arguing for is not the "able to perceive lightning", but rather the fact that she turns her head around.

I have explained it better here and here.

I understood it as covering her turning her head

 

[Dark_Soul20189]

I understood it as covering her turning her head

Yeah, We are debating if it is her turning her head turn to see the "lightning being fire at her, or if the lightning is till being charged up while she turns her head around, and if it was the later it would null the calc (It is also what is supported by the anime)

 

[KingTempest]

Reaction speed isn't limited to just eye movement or thinking.

He never said it was.

I don't understand what the hell is the problem with this "it's reaction speed now so it's unscaleable to any and everyone in the world" issue now

 

[KLOL506]

Reaction speed would generally be short, SINGULAR movements IMHO but right now the standards do not clarify what exactly "Short movement" means. Like, even thinking this for a second I would never accept a singular backflip dodge to be anything less than combat speed versus say, just lunging to the side without any complex movements. Biomechanics of a humanoid body also play a massive role in that.

 

[ActuallySpaceMan42]

Unless "short movement" is clearly defined, I believe all of these actions fall under the category of reaction time and perception speed. Actions such as turning, jumping, or rolling could be considered short movements, whereas multiple jumps in succession would fall under movement speed. Any combat actions performed during these movements, I feel, would be classified as combat speed.

 

[KingTempest]

Unless "short movement" is clearly defined, I believe all of these actions fall under the category of reaction time and perception speed. Actions such as turning, jumping, or rolling could be considered short movements, whereas multiple jumps in succession would fall under movement speed. Any combat actions performed during these movements, I feel, would be classified as combat speed.

We’re defining it in another thread so this thread is effectively moot