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[Fairy Tail] Even More R>F Arguments (Everyone is 1-A?!)

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Saqphire

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In light of the fact that Mashymre's 1-A rating has been finally applied via his Reality > Fiction transcendence over the overall Mashima metaverse, I would like to bring to forth a similar feat from 100 Years Quest that would involve none other than Raj from Ignia's gang.

Premise
Raj basically brings forth illusions of characters from his favourite manga, namely Nakajima, Hien and Griff from Rave Master and Dead Rock (which are the actual manga created by Mashima himself, so it's not some weird inverse doppelgänger manga or whatever)

Reality > Fiction Relation
According to the Reality > Fiction Transcendence page, for a verse to qualify for such, it has to follow these criteria:
In order to qualify they must view the world as a some actual form of 'fiction', i.e. to them what happens in the fiction is not real and of no physical consequence to their being and also otherwise is of no greater consequence to their being than an actual fictional character could reasonably be to a real life human. However, the medium in which they view the world as fiction generally does not matter, as it being fiction is enough for a Reality-Fiction Transcendence to be considered.

Potential mediums for viewing a cosmology as fiction include: written media (Books or stories), images (Paintings, comics, or movies), data (Simulations or video games), or mental constructs (thoughts or dreams). All of the above would be considered less 'real' than the person who views the cosmology as such, and can directly imply qualitative superiority. Note that the medium is usually a representation or container for the fiction on a higher plane and not necessarily the fiction in itself.
Manga is a type of medium where fiction comes from, it's a type of book perse, which Raj already notes that the characters come from his favourite manga so the first qualification is already passed since he sees the characters, and thus the world they're from as a fictional manga narrative. Not only that, anything that happens to the main characters has no real physical consequence to them normally, the only reason the Fairy Tail characters can be damaged is because Raj allows them to damage them

R>F Anti-Feats (spoilers, there are none)
Here, I will detail how this doesn't violate any of the anti-feat requirements that would essentially debunk the entire scale
  • The realities are portrayed like parallel universes or otherwise as having just a finite difference in scale or having a similar nature.
They are not. Any mention of parallel universes in Fairy Tail would include the ones in Happy's spin-off manga which has nothing to do with Rave Master or Dead Rock
  • The characters from both realities are generally being portrayed as comparable in power
They're not; Lucy's, Wendy's and Gray's accepted scaling is between High 6-A to 5-A and there are other feats from the Eclipse Celestial Spirit King arc that they realistically scale to but which is currently being considered as outliers but they still exist in the canon narrative. Rave Master and Dead Rock do not have these type of feats at all; none of the characters shown from RAVE/Dead Rock even have profiles and neither verse has showcased anything related to even 5-B except for Etherion's 3-A scaling, which is already eclipsed by Zeref's accepted feat which is Low 2-C

Point is; they're not comparable in strength at all.
  • The author character completely live in the fictional medium themselves. For example the author character might have a book that contains the world, but the author themselves are also a character in it and don't exist outside it any more than other characters of that world.
Raj doesn't exist in Rave Master or Dead Rock, he's exclusively from Fairy Tail so this point is moot.
  • The fictional characters being able to attack the real ones without being shown to somehow have transcended their fictional world or having special abilities that allow it by being something rooted in a higher reality. Such instances often have to be analyzed on a case-by-case basis to judge how they are best rated. For more detailed information, see here.
As I mentioned earlier, the only reason the fictional characters from these verses can even attack Lucy, Wendy and Gray is because Raj brings them forth as fictional illusions that emit fiery attacks, and these characters are thus not the actual characters. The manga themselves are still a reality in Fairy Tail

Adressing HERO's

Some people might bring up the Hero's mini-series and how that debunks R>F Trancendence due to the existence of Rave Master in it, however;


Scaling
Raj becomes 1-A - Outerverse Level via seeing two different cosmologies as fiction
Anyone who scales to Raj also gains this rating, which would include;
  • X793 Natsu and his guild
  • Ignia
  • Acnologia
  • Zeref
  • Potentially more via chain scales
Mashymre's true avatar key becomes High 1-A - High Outerverse Level via transcending the framework that allows Raj to transcend Dead Rock by seeing it as fiction, by seeing that as fiction aswell, giving Mashymre's true form a meta-qualitative superiority over Fairy Tail.
---
Agree:
Disagree:
Neutral:


Please, actually engage with the arguments before disagreeing with them if you do; arguments from incredulity are not to be taken seriously here
 
Elaborate
Fairy tail is the baseline reality. If someone or something sees something as "fiction" within that reality, it just means it's "inferior" to the reality. It doesn't upgrade the baseline reality. That's why Mashymyre is 1-A for example, because he sees the baseline reality as "fiction" while being qualitatively superior to it.
 
Fairy tail is the baseline reality. If someone or something sees something as "fiction" within that reality, it just means it's "inferior" to the reality. It doesn't upgrade the baseline reality. That's why Mashymyre is 1-A for example, because he sees the baseline reality as "fiction" while being qualitatively superior to it.
So you're saying that Mashymre's qualitative superiority is beyond the "main series" of the metaverse thus the main series seeing sth else as fiction wouldn't mean it's qualitatively superior but rather the fiction is just inferior? Because iirc there is no "main, baseline reality" of the Mashima metaverse, if anything that would be Rave Master since it's the progenitor of the metaverse and thus the baseline reality, and I don't see how the notion wouldn't apply regardless, the same logic can be inferred for any verse w accepted R>F scaling then no?
 
if anything that would be Rave Master since it's the progenitor of the metaverse and thus the baseline reality, and I don't see how the notion wouldn't apply regardless, the same logic can be inferred for any verse w accepted R>F scaling then no?
No.
 
Why would we ever grant a character who views an actual book as fiction (what it literally is) any sort of higher dimensional tiering? This would effectively make any damn verse 1-A because they have some form of media that is fictional. Gojo from jjk plays a game and watches movies, is he now 1-A because of it? If that is genuinely on the page for R>F shit then it might be the dumbest page on the wiki.
 
Why would we ever grant a character who views an actual book as fiction (what it literally is) any sort of higher dimensional tiering? This would effectively make any damn verse 1-A because they have some form of media that is fictional. Gojo from jjk plays a game and watches movies, is he now 1-A because of it? If that is genuinely on the page for R>F shit then it might be the dumbest page on the wiki.
e85sbe5veaar1cy.png


my goat
 
Why would we ever grant a character who views an actual book as fiction (what it literally is) any sort of higher dimensional tiering? This would effectively make any damn verse 1-A because they have some form of media that is fictional. Gojo from jjk plays a game and watches movies, is he now 1-A because of it? If that is genuinely on the page for R>F shit then it might be the dumbest page on the wiki.
I mean the page does say:
In order to qualify they must view the world as a some actual form of 'fiction', i.e. to them what happens in the fiction is not real and of no physical consequence to their being and also otherwise is of no greater consequence to their being than an actual fictional character could reasonably be to a real life human. However, the medium in which they view the world as fiction generally does not matter, as it being fiction is enough for a Reality-Fiction Transcendence to be considered.

Potential mediums for viewing a cosmology as fiction include: written media (Books or stories), images (Paintings, comics, or movies), data (Simulations or video games), or mental constructs (thoughts or dreams). All of the above would be considered less 'real' than the person who views the cosmology as such, and can directly imply qualitative superiority. Note that the medium is usually a representation or container for the fiction on a higher plane and not necessarily the fiction in itself.
So I'm just following the standard here according to it's logic
Why's that
 
Baseline reality. All qualitative differences are a matter of subjective placement. We establish the baseline level, which here would be FT and from there, put either a superiority or inferiority regarding the realm that is above or below said reality.
I see. Wouldn't that lead the argument to be that Rave Master would be the baseline reality then?

Also Ninja Storm Hagoromo just became interesting to me
 
Considering how Rave Master and Dead Rock are their own entire manga, with them not being treated as any less special than Fairy Tail, it’d probably be better to do Reality Equalization here
 
I think everyone has explained why this is not such a great idea.

I'll contribute my vote towards disagreement with this proposal.
Well it won't get accepted atp so might aswell close this

Most people weren't even engaging except for Arkenis, IDK and Sweet so
 
Wait a second, the proposal isn't even for 1A, but High 1A???

Yeah, that's enough scaling for today...

PS, when is the vote counting gonna start?
 
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