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All Purpose Dragon Ball Thread

Nullflowerblush said:
What type of multiverse is the DB Multiverse currently accepted as? Quilted?
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If you mean the "canon" one, probably a variation of Tegmark Level 2 + Twin World Models of Universes + Brane (on a small level).
LEVEL 2: In the eternal inflation theory, which is a variant of the cosmic inflation theory, the multiverse or space as a whole is stretching and will continue doing so forever, but some regions of space stop stretching and form distinct bubbles (like gas pockets in a loaf of rising bread). Such bubbles are embryonic level I multiverses.

Different bubbles may experience different spontaneous symmetry breaking, which results in different properties, such as different physical constants.
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Each Macrocosm is Level 2, as each Universe is made of multiple pocket spaces of different properties and physical laws. Of course, in Tegmark, those are Level 1 Multiverses, but here they're just universes. Then, as each Universe has a pair (and previously, a triplet), you get an explanation on why the Universes number in the 12 and have "mirrors," like 6 and 7.
TWIN WORLD MODEL: There are models of two related universes that e.g. attempt to explain the baryon asymmetry – why there was more matter than antimatter at the beginning – with a mirror anti-universe. One two-universe cosmological model could explain the Hubble constant (H0) tension via interactions between the two worlds. The "mirror world" would contain copies of all existing fundamental particles. Another twin/pair-world or "bi-world" cosmology is shown to theoretically be able to solve the cosmological constant (Λ) problem, closely related to dark energy: two interacting worlds with a large Λ each could result in a small shared effective Λ.
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Which also explains why each Macrocosm has duplicates of the various properties and realms, like there being multiple Otherworlds. Obviously, the real answer is Rymus made them, but we're trying to fit within preset types, so presume that the spontaneous creation of a World from Rymus just acts the same for the sake of quantification. And finally...
BRANE: The brane multiverse version postulates that our entire universe exists on a membrane (brane) which floats in a higher dimension or "bulk". In this bulk, there are other membranes with their own universes. These universes can interact with one another, and when they collide, the violence and energy produced is more than enough to give rise to a Big Bang. The branes float or drift near each other in the bulk, and every few trillion years, attracted by gravity or some other force we do not understand, collide and bang into each other. This repeated contact gives rise to multiple or "cyclic" Big Bangs. This particular hypothesis falls under the string theory umbrella as it requires extra spatial dimensions.
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Of course, this is far more advanced and isn't wholly applicable to Dragon Ball, but this is the closest analog to the Timelines, which hold duplicates of each set of Macrocosms in a form of, vague, unexplained, bulk-space.

Then with Heroes, you just take this and apply an Infinite set of Timelines on it and other spaces that exist between or above/through them all (The Crack of Time, for instance), which would make it also part Many-World Interpretation. Or, in other words, a Level 3 Tegmark Multiverse.
LEVEL 3: Hugh Everett III's many-worlds interpretation (MWI) is one of several mainstream interpretations of quantum mechanics.

In brief, one aspect of quantum mechanics is that certain observations cannot be predicted absolutely. Instead, there is a range of possible observations, each with a different probability. According to the MWI, each of these possible observations corresponds to a different "world" within the Universal wavefunction, with each world as real as ours. Suppose a six-sided die is thrown and that the result of the throw corresponds to observable quantum mechanics. All six possible ways the die can fall correspond to six different worlds. In the case of the Schrödinger's cat thought experiment, both outcomes would be "real" in at least one "world."
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That's the closest set of descriptions I could apply to the Multiverse of Dragon Ball. (Universe -> Small Multiverses in the Form of Macrocosm -> Larger Multiverse in the form of multiple Macrocosms -> Timelines as a larger Multiverse that all hold copies of the whole collection of Macrocosms).
 
RedReaper616 said:
If you mean the "canon" one, probably a variation of Tegmark Level 2 + Twin World Models of Universes + Brane (on a small level).

Each Macrocosm is Level 2, as each Universe is made of multiple pocket spaces of different properties and physical laws. Of course, in Tegmark, those are Level 1 Multiverses, but here they're just universes. Then, as each Universe has a pair (and previously, a triplet), you get an explanation on why the Universes number in the 12 and have "mirrors," like 6 and 7.

Which also explains why each Macrocosm has duplicates of the various properties and realms, like there being multiple Otherworlds. Obviously, the real answer is Rymus made them, but we're trying to fit within preset types, so presume that the spontaneous creation of a World from Rymus just acts the same for the sake of quantification. And finally...

Of course, this is far more advanced and isn't wholly applicable to Dragon Ball, but this is the closest analog to the Timelines, which hold duplicates of each set of Macrocosms in a form of, vague, unexplained, bulk-space.

Then with Heroes, you just take this and apply an Infinite set of Timelines on it and other spaces that exist between or above/through them all (The Crack of Time, for instance), which would make it also part Many-World Interpretation. Or, in other words, a Level 3 Tegmark Multiverse.


That's the closest set of descriptions I could apply to the Multiverse of Dragon Ball. (Universe -> Small Multiverses in the Form of Macrocosm -> Larger Multiverse in the form of multiple Macrocosms -> Timelines as a larger Multiverse that all hold copies of the whole collection of Macrocosms).
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Bro.

Today I argued against that Shin the Science guy from the DB Community fandom.
I don't want to be disrepectful, but Bro is legit a low-tier debater.

He will use the most out of place assumptions for many simple official statements. Handwaving everything.
 
Ruphas_Mafahl123 said:
Bro.

Today I argued against that Shin the Science guy from the DB Community fandom.
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I mean, I don't really have much of an opinion on that person. I only ended up serving to proxy debate them because I was being plagerized and asked to defend the person who stole from me.
Ruphas_Mafahl123 said:
...Bro is legit a low-tier debater.
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W...what does that even mean? Like, how the Hell can someone be a "low-tier" Debater? Is there a competitive debating meta? Like, you lost me there.
 
RedReaper616 said:
I mean, I don't really have much of an opinion on that person. I only ended up serving to proxy debate them because I was being plagerized and asked to defend the person who stole from me.
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I see.
RedReaper616 said:
W...what does that even mean? Like, how the Hell can someone be a "low-tier" Debater? Is there a competitive debating meta? Like, you lost me there.
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His's condescending attitude, how he intentionally minsterprets coherent reasoning in regards scan explanations, how he applies the Occam's razor fallacy, etc

I'm sorry for saying this, I admit I went off the charts here...the dude just got into my nerves.
 
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Probably because he is a non-character, and the only reason why anybody would even care about indexing him is to have a second Tier 1 character connected to non-Bandai Dragon Ball.
 
Ok, I will express my view on this matter.
To be honest, I wouldn't use the Daizenshuu/Chōzenshū to explain in-lore stuff from the DBZ TV Anime or it's movies, neither GT.
Sure, they can be used as a referential encyclopedia in regards power levels, races, etc.
But taking at face value what they say in regards Toei works is a mistake.

Daizenshuu/Chōzenshū were published by Sueshia, Toei had minimal involvement there.
Daizenshuu/Chōzenshū have a different world view in regards DB than Toei.
In my opinion Toei's own sources should take more precendence over specific stuff like hidden lore explanations, continuity, etc..
After all, whatever Daizenshuu and Chōzenshū have to say about Toei's own shit is kinda irrelevant.

Becouse well, if anything, they are third party people explaning stuff from the Toeiverse, not really the main producers, screen writers, etc that were involved.
 
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Nullflowerblush said:
Like?
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Well, official statements, guides where Toei Staff was heavily involved, or written mostly by Toei.
Not Sueshia that has an entirely different point of view in regards DB.

For example, a Toei Movie pamphlet saying DBZ Broly had Infinite power which grows every second, should hold way more credibility than Sueshia (Caramel mama studio), or Akira's team saying the contrary on the Daizenshuu or Chōzenshū which are a bit more manga shifted.

In my opinion, I consider that primary supplementary material specifically made for the TV Anime, movies, etc should take more precendence over official statements from third party people not directly involved in the main animated work's production.
 
Ruphas_Mafahl123 said:
Daizenshuu/Chōzenshū have a different world view in regards DB than Toei.
Click to expand...
MCnM5XA.jpeg
 
Actually I'm curious as how Soul Adagio would intract with Dragon Ball Ki, as Ki is accepted to be soul power. Like would it work on Kid Goku (Who's also 5-B)?

Soul Manipulation (Ki is synonymous[119] with spirit, life-energy and the soul.[119] Ki being spiritual[6] is a fact reiterated a multitude of times; consequently, the energy[120] is invisible[121] and formless[122] prior to being converted.[1] The manipulation of energy is done by using the internal spiritual energy from within[1] and being able to materialize it, and project it outwards.[10] Therefore, manipulating this means interacting with your own soul to draw upon ki for various uses)

Resistance to Soul Manipulation (Soul Damage & Destruction[See Notes 7]; Spirits in the Afterlife[128] can fight others and the spirit is strengthened like its body[129]. Many characters[25] have demonstrated[130] being able[131] to naturally[131] handle having[132] their spirit[119]/ki[6] stolen from them[133]. Ki users when splitting[6] their soul[134] have been shown taking damage to their spirit[134], and still handle the effects[134] of the damage. When fighting against other Ki users, their Soul Damaging effects are inherently resisted with the most powerful Ki users being able to endure the effects of Hakai[135] which directly targets the soul and attempts to destroy it completely)

Soul Damage (Ordinary Ki can directly interact with spirits[119] and harm them[145], causing damage to the soul itself[145]. Techniques like Hakai, which outright destroy souls[146], can even be used[39] by those[147] with ordinary[148] Ki)
 
Ruphas_Mafahl123 said:
In my opinion, I consider that primary supplementary material specifically made for the TV Anime, movies, etc should take more precendence over official statements from third party people not directly involved in the main animated work's production.
Click to expand...
The TV Anime Guide series was written and edited by Kisōsha and Drill Project staff. The Extreme Battle Collection series was written and edited by Kisōsha. The Dragon Ball Z Anime Special series was written and edited by Kisōsha. The GT Perfect Files are written and edited by Kisōsha and third party, non-Toei writers. Even the Dragon Books, which are packaged with the Dragon Box releases of the TV anime, are written and edited by Kisōsha.
 
Nullflowerblush said:
The TV Anime Guide series was written and edited by Kisōsha and Drill Project staff. The Extreme Battle Collection series was written and edited by Kisōsha. The Dragon Ball Z Anime Special series was written and edited by Kisōsha. The GT Perfect Files are written and edited by Kisōsha and third party, non-Toei writers. Even the Dragon Books, which are packaged with the Dragon Box releases of the TV anime, are written and edited by Kisōsha.
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Yeah, with the involvement and revision of the GT Staff and the people involved.
What I'm saying is...., that doesn't change the fact that when those two wrote the Daizenshuu/Chōzenshū guides barely anyone from Toei was involved.

Regardless, i'm just stating my opinion in regards the matter.

Supplementary material specific to certain series should override whatever other external sources say.
 
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The GT Perfect Files, the Dragon Books, the Daizenshuu, and the Chōzenshū are all made 協力 or "In Cooperation With" Toei Animation. As far as we are aware, these four share the same amount of "involvement and revision" from the Toei Animation staff.
 
Nullflowerblush said:
The GT Perfect Files, the Dragon Books, the Daizenshuu, and the Chōzenshū are all made 協力 or "In Cooperation With" Toei Animation. As far as we are aware, these four share the same amount of "involvement and revision" from the Toei Animation staff.
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I'm not sure about that..

If anything, Japanese Anime guides tend have tons of contradictions between each other mostly becouse different people work them.
If we are being realistic, we have no real way to prove with 100% confidence if what you are saying it's actually the case.
These incosistentencies arises becouse it depends on the team that work them.
But there is still a fact, GT/Toei Staff defintely have much more involvement in their own works than external sources...

And mind, unlike Westerners, Japanese people do not even know what canon is, and they simply do not really care about it.....

Applying Western-centric standarts of consistency to Japanese works is a huge mistake..

A common mistake for many people of this wiki is to view Japanese media through the Euro-American cultural lens
 
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Ruphas_Mafahl123 said:
But there is still a fact, GT/Toei Staff defintely have much more involvement in their own works than external sources...
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If we are being realistic, we have no real way to prove with 100% confidence if what you are saying it's actually the case. You can't just say something is a fact like that makes it true. You can't prove it. You'd think if they were as involved as you think they are—hands on and all—they would, at some point, be credited with writing on any of the aforementioned guidebooks.
 
Nullflowerblush said:
If we are being realistic, we have no real way to prove with 100% confidence if what you are saying it's actually the case. You can't just say something is a fact like that makes it true. You can't prove it. You'd think if they were as involved as you think they are—hands on and all—they would, at some point, be credited with writing on any of the aforementioned guidebooks.
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It was the case in the perfect files? iirc
 
I feel like profiles for DBS characters whose portrayals across the manga and anime aren't distinct enough from each other to be separate should be composited. They're essentially the same characters anyway, and since the worldviews of both continuities are almost nearly identical, I don't really see why we should be splitting hairs over how these characters are depicted across the two mediums.
 
Nullflowerblush said:
I feel like profiles for DBS characters whose portrayals across the manga and anime aren't distinct enough from each other to be separate should be composited. They're essentially the same characters anyway, and since the worldviews of both continuities are almost nearly identical, I don't really see why we should be splitting hairs over how these characters are depicted across the two mediums.
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interesting
 
Nullflowerblush said:
I feel like profiles for DBS characters whose portrayals across the manga and anime aren't distinct enough from each other to be separate should be composited. They're essentially the same characters anyway, and since the worldviews of both continuities are almost nearly identical, I don't really see why we should be splitting hairs over how these characters are depicted across the two mediums.
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Not quite...

Still different powerscaling
 
I also agree with the profile fusion, like Daishinkan is the same as in the anime, it only showed differences in skills (where the anime hasn't shown yet with the Moro saga), so anyway I'm fine with the profile fusion...
 
I mainly suggest it because I plan on making a thread for revising Hit's Time-Skip, and I'm going to be using manga evidence.
 
Nullflowerblush said:
I mainly suggest it because I plan on making a thread for revising Hit's Time-Skip, and I'm going to be using manga evidence.
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I’m not sure which manga evidence would actually help in explaining it. Hit says he’s stopping time, but against SSJ Goku he says he’s traveling to the future (so the explanation still contradicts itself), and Manga Hit has a PL limit whereas Anime Hit hasn’t shown such a limit. Goku just breaks through + resists through his own ability to do that, and Jiren “transcends time” so it doesn’t work on him. And, of course, Manga Hit infamously lacks basically all the Assassin Arc elements of Anime Hit’s kit (Phasing, Energy Duplication, Phasing Attacks, Illusions, etc.) created by Hit’s Parallel Space. The best I can think is using Time Lag as a mirror to Cage of Time, but like…Time Lag just slows down Jiren, and is made to get around a limit in Manga Hit’s abilities. Cage of Time is an actual, perpetual time freeze that Jiren just powers through because, apparently, time manipulation doesn’t apply to his strength.
 
Nullflowerblush said:
I feel like profiles for DBS characters whose portrayals across the manga and anime aren't distinct enough from each other to be separate should be composited. They're essentially the same characters anyway, and since the worldviews of both continuities are almost nearly identical, I don't really see why we should be splitting hairs over how these characters are depicted across the two mediums.
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I can only see that working as different keys with tabbers properly distinguishing them like the Star Wars and DCEU profiles had before. By extension shouldn't it also apply to characters like Raditz? Giving him "Manga, Toei and Kai" Keys, since it's the same deal
 
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