High School DxD cosmology is a lie (Yes, once again)

[Vietthai96]

OP should use collapsable format to shorten your OP, it is very long

Anyway, i will look at all these arguments when i have time

 

[Tom4t0GG789]

OP should use collapsable format to shorten your OP, it is very long

Anyway, i will look at all these arguments when i have time

I understand, I will do it

 

[Grabbing_dragon]

YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS

 

[BlackeJan]

People also have to understand that Japanese language isn’t like how English is. The language itself depends on expressions and tone hence why if u sometimes use it for google translate, there’s a good chance it would be wrong

I would know cause I’m taking Japanese language classes so if someone who passed the exam for Japanese language is pretty much confirming in OP should tell u enough

 

[Vietthai96]

People also have to understand that Japanese language isn’t like how English is. The language itself depends on expressions and tone hence why if u sometimes use it for google translate, there’s a good chance it would be wrong

Most languages are actually, it is just that Japanese is harder due to its language system

 

[Endou_God_Hand]

I don’t see anything about the Norse World. Granted, the next spinoff volume is supposed to have the main characters visit Asgard, so we might get more info.

But regardless, until then, like I brought up in a previous thread:

Let me get this right.

It is only the Underworld that was compared to the human world in size. But regardless, that was only describing its landmass and not the entire dimension.

For example; as accepted for Bleach, Soul Society’s landmass is the same as Earth. But we know the dimension is bigger because it has stars. So when Yamamoto says he’s going to destroy Soul Society, it’s only treated as him destroying the landmass, which is equivalent to our Earth. Effectively though, the cosmology of Soul Society is treated as being big enough to contain stars.

Bringing it back to DxD — Asgard has stars, as it has a Sun. So it means the entire dimension is big enough to contain stars. The landmass itself has no bearing on the size of the entire dimension. So I cannot see the problem with treating the entire dimensions as being big enough to contain stars. We have explicitly seen Suns there.

The Norse World having a Sun is pretty explicit, so why is this being hand waved? I can’t see any tangible reason aside from personal opinion. And once again, the landmass has no bearing on the entire dimension or Soul Society, for example, would be treated as a planet but it is not.

What exactly is the issue with the Norse dimension in its entirety being big enough to contain celestial bodies? This is simply based on the wiki’s standards, unless the next volumes tell us otherwise.

This post more than sums it up. If the dimensions are mentioned to have a Sun, stars, and contain celestial bodies, then why are we downgrading the 4-A rating? Our standards make it so that is usually taken at 4-A.
Additionally...

Translator’s opinion: I think both terms mean basically the same thing here, don’t they? The term 異世界 means another/parallel world, but as in another dimension/reality, not like a different planet in the solar system if that’s what you’re asking. From what I’ve seen in other fiction, the word “world” can be used to mean “universe/dimension” abstractly but not the other way around, so I’d go with “world” to be safe.

By your own translator's admission, the use of 異世界 here clearly means another reality / universe or dimension, just because we don't know the exact size of it doesn't mean it's not usable. It's why the current 2-C rating on the sight is a possibly (or it would be if everyone who was downgrading the verse would apply their changes after a CRT passes)

 

[Endou_God_Hand]

I’m not tryna be that guy but he LITERALLT got someone that knows Japanese, PASSED an exam to teach the language and u still have a problem with that?

Yeah imma need yall to stop crying cause this is ridiculous. I’ve never seen someone get this upset even when they actually found someone that can also translate hiragana and katakana

Can you please tell me where I said I had a problem with getting a guy to do entirely new translations? I think getting second opinions on a language is fine, in fact, this is a major step up from MTL.

Ah i see. Your upset because we are trying to challenge the official translation by using a translator that is more than qualified to translate japanese and so believe we should be using the light novel localized version rather than challenge it. Im afraid that is exactly we are combatting: LN localization by showing the original intent of the author when it was first published in japanese.

My issue is that all this is being used to basically try and force a narrative that this translator knows more about DxD and how it was meant to be intended than the actual author, Ichei Ishibumi. That is my issue.

Nobody knows the author's true intent, which is why translations vary, and why trying to argue the semantics over multiple different translations is counter-productive.

Is there a reason we cannot trust Yen Press and other Fan-TLs? Typically, in verses which are localized from other languages to English, the reason you seek your on translations is due to egregious or gratuitous changes in dialogue or text that would give off a completely different impression than what the story intended, but that is not the case for DxD, and that is my issue.

 

[Tom4t0GG789]

This post more than sums it up. If the dimensions are mentioned to have a Sun, stars, and contain celestial bodies, then why are we downgrading the 4-A rating? Our standards make it so that is usually taken at 4-A.
Additionally...

By your own translator's admission, the use of 異世界 here clearly means another reality / universe or dimension, just because we don't know the exact size of it doesn't mean it's not usable. It's why the current 2-C rating on the sight is a possibly (or it would be if everyone who was downgrading the verse would apply their changes after a CRT passes)

The current DxD blog says that the mentions are worlds, dimensions, or Universes, due to the interpretation of Cao Cao's statement, the worlds are considered multiversal.

We don't have a broader size to qualify DxD, ExE, and FxF as universes, because one of the interpretations implies that being a parallel universe doesn't mean that's the size. We need evidence for it to be qualified, as stated on our standard page.

 

[Tom4t0GG789]

Nobody knows the author's true intent, which is why translations vary, and why trying to argue the semantics over multiple different translations is counter-productive.

Is there a reason we cannot trust Yen Press and other Fan-TLs? Typically, in verses which are localized from other languages to English, the reason you seek your on translations is due to egregious or gratuitous changes in dialogue or text that would give off a completely different impression than what the story intended, but that is not the case for DxD, and that is my issue.

Of course I understand your point, but that's not how it works here. Magazines, mangas, books, and others have translations made by fans or official media, but we always consult the translations here, or as we show, we can consult them with other language experts. So why should it be any different here than what we usually do on the wiki? Consulting translations is very common on the site.

 

[TotalMasterInfinity]

As I said before, it doesn't matter anymore, do whatever you want, if you want to take my vote just put it in Disagree.

Chronologically this is my last comment of the Thread: Congratulations I will see you in the thread to convert all DxD characters to Tier 11.

 

[Tom4t0GG789]

Bump

 

[1smrizvi]

Bump

 

[Vietthai96]

Anyway read through the OP, i can agree with the translation, though there is still problem with Asgard brought up by Burning Finger

 

[Tom4t0GG789]

Anyway read through the OP, i can agree with the translation, though there is still problem with Asgard brought up by Burning Finger

As I explained in the sections on Heaven, the Underworld, and the Human World, these are the main dimensions, and since no major size differences are ever mentioned or repeated, they should all be planetary-sized. As for Asgard's sun, as noted in the average sizes section, it could be considered an outlier, as destroying that dimension would represent a massive power jump. I already debunked Issei's low level 5-B status, and inversely to his profile, he wouldn't reach level 4. It's also a unique case, as the sun is only mentioned in Asgard, which isn't one of the main worlds. Its sudden mention, without further explanation from Azazel, suggests that it could simply be an artificial sun, which would make sense given the size of the other worlds.

Sure, as I said it's a possibility, but taking into account what I explained in the sections, it's not a low probability, but a high one.

 

[Vietthai96]

It seem like a reasonable assumption, though i still waiting if the opposition have counter argument against this, if they can't then i can agree with your assumption on Asgard's sun

Edit: Though massive power jump is common among fiction, so it is not really a good factor in argument, though it could be a minor supporting argument

 

[Tom4t0GG789]

It seem like a reasonable assumption, though i still waiting if the opposition have counter argument against this, if they can't then i can agree with your assumption on Asgard's sun

Edit: Though massive power jump is common among fiction, so it is not really a good factor in argument, though it could be a minor supporting argument

Thanks, and you're right, I hadn't taken that fact from fiction. Would you mind if I placed you agreeing with the thread?

 

[Vietthai96]

I'm still waiting for the opposition, so just place me as neutral, leaning toward agreeing

Though given the fact that only AxA have direct statement about its full powered blast could destroy the planet, if characters could destroy the Sun, the verse didn't make it like planetary was a big deal like that, though this isn't really major thing

 

[Firestorm808]

OP seems to make sense.

 

[TotalMasterInfinity]

Do you really want counterarguments?
Well, here they are.

Timelines

In DxD, there are multiple timelines. The timelines we know are those of the anime, the LN, the original, the hypothetical, and the future.

This makes the first three seasons of the anime (Season 1, New, and Born) and HERO parallel timelines to the novel.

The problem is that it is claimed that these two timelines are one, which cannot be true since Episode 0 of HERO, plus Ishibumo's statements, rule this out.

The fact that Beelzebub is the size of Australia or that Yuuto is surprised by a dimension the size of Kanto, is not a contradiction.

Underworld.

The fact that the Underworld had a sun even before the existence of the Evil Pieces, and therefore why the Maou created a moon and changed the color of the night sky for the benefit of the Reincarnated Devils, is ignored.

The Heaven.

It basically states that the Second Heaven is a kind of giant screen for the human world, something that is never stated; the stars of the Second Heaven are in the Second Heaven.

Everything else is just nonsense.

Draconic Deus is a Multiverse contained within the Dimensional Gap.

I have nothing else to say, do what you will with that.

 

[Vietthai96]

In DxD, there are multiple timelines. The timelines we know are those of the anime, the LN, the original, the hypothetical, and the future.

i don't think anyone really contest this

The problem is that it is claimed that these two timelines are one, which cannot be true since Episode 0 of HERO, plus Ishibumo's statements, rule this out.

iirc, Ishi statement was way before HERO even out, EX was created to deal with the mess BorN created, then HERO came out late and retcon a lot of thing in BorN, changed the ending of the terrorist attack back to as close as how LN suppose to be, make every after the attack nonexistent, like Loki's curse and the battle in Dimensional Gap

The fact that Beelzebub is the size of Australia or that Yuuto is surprised by a dimension the size of Kanto, is not a contradiction.

Supposedly from the cosmology blog, Yuuto shouldn't be surprised at the size if they had already seen things that were larger than the size of Australia or Kanto, such as the Rating Game dimension, which was supposed to be 4-A due to having a starry sky and the room with the infinite darkness statement, which is treated as infinite in size?

The fact that the Underworld had a sun even before the existence of the Evil Pieces, and therefore why the Maou created a moon and changed the color of the night sky for the benefit of the Reincarnated Devils, is ignored.

i think the translation was already addressed it, the moon is fake, so the sun shouldn't be real either

Everything else is just nonsense.

Saying everything else is nonsense isn't how you counter the arguments made by the opposition, bro seriously?

Draconic Deus is a Multiverse contained within the Dimensional Gap

It was contested in some previous revision and was debunked, IIRC. Also, Draconic Deus was stated to be Earth, as in planet Earth, IIRC.

Anyway, place me in agree with the thread, for now, no hard feeling, but until now, I have yet to see any good counter argument from the opposition

 

[Endou_God_Hand]

I'm a bit confused here, if 4-A is still confirmed given that the stars being real ais largely uncontested, and people still agree that separate timelines exist then why is this a "Cosmology debunk".
From what I can tell it's just looking like Issei will be downgraded to 5-B due to the destruction AxA caused being the world of the human realm (as in the planet) and not anything else involving the cosmology.

 

[1smrizvi]

I'm a bit confused here, if 4-A is still confirmed given that the stars being real are largely contested, and people still agree that separate timelines exist then why is this a "Cosmology debunk".
From what I can tell it's just looking like Issei will be downgraded to 5-B due to the destruction AxA caused being the world of the human realm (as in the planet) and not anything else involving the cosmology.

Regarding the stars, tomato apparently added a edit to the heaven section of the op, something new popped up. A potential conflict with wiki standards i think. You can look into it and give your judgement yourself

 

[TotalMasterInfinity]

So someone created a fake sun before the Civil War?
Who?
Why?
The fake moon and the change in the night sky were created for the benefit of the Reincarnated Devils to make the underworld more similar to the human world. What's the point of creating a fake sun when the Evil Pieces didn't even exist?

It's the same as with the Giant Screen in the firmament of the Second Heaven or the claim that one can physically access the Christian Heaven.

That's what I'm talking about when I say nonsense. They've spent all this time spouting nonsense without thinking about the implications, all out of pure disbelief.

If you're willing to believe in nonsense simply because it's more comfortable for you, fine, go with that, but stop pretending there's real logic behind it when it's just disbelief.

 

[Vietthai96]

I'm a bit confused here, if 4-A is still confirmed given that the stars being real are largely contested, and people still agree that separate timelines exist then why is this a "Cosmology debunk".
From what I can tell it's just looking like Issei will be downgraded to 5-B due to the destruction AxA caused being the world of the human realm (as in the planet) and not anything else involving the cosmology.

Cosmology debunking is mostly aim at
1. Removing that each mythological dimension contains its own stars make them 4-A dimension: the stars still real, but they are stars from outer space, and the starry sky mean you are observing stars from far away in outer space, rather than mythological dimension contain stars in it.

2. Remove the High 3-A Earth from cosmology blog, due to infinite touki statement and a room with infinite darkness statement, which is currently treated as High 3-A room in the cosmology blog

3. remove anime timeline due to its contradictory nature, and thus anime information shouldn't be used for LN

That is from what i see in the OP

The fact that the Underworld had a sun even

@Tom4t0GG789 you should address this

Even if i was to agree with a real sun in Underworld, at best Underworld gonna be Large Star level

That's what I'm talking about when I say nonsense. They've spent all this time spouting nonsense without thinking about the implications, all out of pure disbelief.

then prove the argument and translation from the OP to be nonsense, saying their arguments are nonsense and disbelief without back evidence, arguments and scans. Doesn't make your argument any better. if you don't want this to pass, defend the verse rather than complaining

 

[Dragongod224]

iirc, Ishi statement was way before HERO even out, EX was created to deal with the mess BorN created, then HERO came out late and retcon a lot of thing in BorN, changed the ending of the terrorist attack back to as close as how LN suppose to be,

Yeah, it's close to the light novel, but the events take place in a different time period from the events in the novel timeline. The author's statement regarding Chichigami does appear in the anime timeline, but it doesn't say anything about it not being a different timeline. So, it doesn't change anything because it only explains the events in the anime timeline.


We know the anime hasn't confirmed the appearance of Chichigami (aside from the author's statement). We also know they find out about Chichigami during the Loki fight, but in the anime, it doesn't take place in that time period (as far as we see). The author only claims that Chichigami did appear in the anime timeline.


The EX timeline takes place before the rating game between Rias and Sairaorg Bael. We know EX mentions a timeline where Chichigami doesn't appear, and they don't find out about parallel dimensions.

Also, EX isn't the one seeing the events of different timelines, but someone else. They say they didn't come into contact with Chichigami and didn't find out about parallel dimensions.


We know they find out about Chichigami during the Loki fight, but in the anime, it doesn't take place in that time period (as far as we see). We don't know about the timeline EX talked about, so we assume it refers to the anime timeline because it's the only timeline where Issei didn't come into contact with Chichigami during Loki fight. And author confirm did appear but when not confirmed.


We also don't know how much time has passed in that timeline or how many events that person saw in different timelines.


So, it's possible that Chichigami did appear between Born and Hero.


This thread only uses a single statement regarding the anime timeline that only explains the events of the anime timeline, so it doesn't change the fact that the anime is a different timeline EX talked about.


And be have other statement regarding anime like saying some of the character is stronger than their light novel counter part
(read in the timeline blog for scan)

So I going to say for now
Anime is the only timeline we know that should be timeline ex talked about

after the attack nonexistent, like Loki's curse and the battle in Dimensional Gap

Possibly loki's do exist in anime since when issei reach CxC they talk about some curse, I don't know which curse they talked about

Yeah I also think that the battle in Dimensional Gap is non canon I also talked about this with @masque but he kindly disagree

Saying everything else is nonsense isn't how you counter the arguments made by the opposition, bro seriously?

Since you don't answer the heaven star's thing I want to add to that question
https://ibb.co/PsS6j1JW
https://ibb.co/whgsNcwR

The translator himself don't know whether stars are Universe stars or heaven is the cloud City that exist in the atmosphere of the planet Earth

But we know heaven was a different dimension (space-time) which was currently accepted in this wiki two time.
so the stars in second heaven should be stars of the second heaven

The person who created this thread say they projection of the star's which is entirely fiction self created since they doesn't have any statement regarding this like the stars in second heaven was fake Or they have any think that project star in the second heaven from different dimension or anything else like they have any tool that project stars in current dxd.


Asgard sun
There is no statement regarding the sun of Asgard, whether it's fake or real. The only statements are that there is a sun in Asgard and that an evil dragon creates a solar eclipse, stopping light from reaching Asgard.

So it's not a good thing you just say that it's not a real sun when it's wasn't confirmed or there is any statement regarding this.

 

[BlackeJan]

if you don't want this to pass, defend the verse rather than complaining

I ask u just ignore him. He’s been a rude person from the start of everything. It saves u the trouble

 

[Dragongod224]

Cosmology debunking is mostly aim at
1. Removing that each mythological dimension contains its own stars make them 4-A dimension: the stars still real, but they are stars from outer space, and the starry sky mean you are observing stars from far away in outer space, rather than mythological dimension contain stars in it.

I already address this in previous comment

2. Remove the High 3-A Earth from cosmology blog, due to infinite touki statement and a room with infinite darkness statement, which is currently treated as High 3-A room in the cosmology blog

Earth was never accepted as infinite in size but the entire dimension which also content stars, moons, galaxies which is according to shin volume 4 moon and stars and sun are real in dxd of human world

And human world is different dimension(space time) then mythological worlds which is currently accepted in wiki two time

3. remove anime timeline due to its contradictory nature, and thus anime information shouldn't be used for LN

Nothing contradict the cosmology side form rating game fields and the creation fits statement of character or the isolation barrier world which is not a include in other timelines cosmology.
so there fits doesn't including in light novel character profile which is previously addressed.(If I remember correctly)

 

[BlackeJan]

As I said before, Japanese language isn’t like English, it’s based on expressions and tone. The translations pretty much proved it in the OP. Idk why it’s tryna be overlooked like that’s not part of the major key points

 

[Vietthai96]

will response to you @Dragongod224 tomorrow, i need to sleep now, it is late in my country timezone

 

[Dragongod224]

will response to you @Dragongod224 tomorrow, i need to sleep now, it is late in my country timezone

Same for me it's 12am in my country

 

[TotalMasterInfinity]

I've been defending DxD since Masque started this, but I realized it's a futile effort when they aren't even listening. The fact that they don't realize the implications of their supposed arguments is proof of that.

They claim that the stars of the Second Heaven are stars of the human world, but that IMPLIES that the firmament of the Second Heaven is some kind of giant screen that projects that image or some kind of enormous portal that allows one to see that, when nowhere in the novel is that stated.

They claim that the sun of the underworld is fake, when in the novel itself it is stated that the changes made to the underworld by the maou (fake moon, night sky, and time flow) were made for the Reincarnated Devils, and we see that the sun existed before the Civil War, which IMPLIES that someone created a fake sun before Ajuka invented the Evil Piece simply because they felt like it.

 

[Dragongod224]

I've been defending DxD since Masque started this, but I realized it's a futile effort when they aren't even listening. The fact that they don't realize the implications of their supposed arguments is proof of that.

They claim that the stars of the Second Heaven are stars of the human world, but that IMPLIES that the firmament of the Second Heaven is some kind of giant screen that projects that image or some kind of enormous portal that allows one to see that, when nowhere in the novel is that stated.

They claim that the sun of the underworld is fake, when in the novel itself it is stated that the changes made to the underworld by the maou (fake moon, night sky, and time flow) were made for the Reincarnated Devils, and we see that the sun existed before the Civil War, which IMPLIES that someone created a fake sun before Ajuka invented the Evil Piece simply because they felt like it.

Do you even read the what op claim

Conclusion

• The Underworld is not 4-A size, but 5-B size comparable to Earth
• The human world is declared to be the Earth, while celestial bodies exist outside its dimension.

Then where did star's,sun and moon exist?

and what do you mean by outside of its dimension earth exist in that dimension(and mythological worlds are different dimension) because they can travel physically there in outer space where other celestial bodies (moon and other planet, stars)exist without any problem even human satellite exist there which is non-magical.

• The Heaven being considered one of the main dimensions, besides not having a specification about its size, should be the same size as the main dimensions
• Given the way Le Fay called the worlds, they should all be compared in the same size.

If that so then they at least qualify for Universe by that logic you used because human world Universe are real universe other celestial bodies like moon, sun and other stars are real in human world.

• The Dimensional Gap is not infinite in size, it is just a space that separates dimensions

Thay doesn't including a statement which is has in infinity close infinitely far statement for dimensional gap.

• The another worlds like D×D, E×E and F×F in the absence of further information, they should only qualify as alternative dimensions.

Ok, Alternative Universe just becoming alternative dimension.

• On the part of the third heaven and the immeasurable size (that is, it cannot be measured) it is fine, but it does not qualify for something of infinite size unfortunately.
• Perhaps it could be argued that by not knowing its limits, it is larger than the planet, however, I disagree with this idea.

Still this by counting that the statement come from more advance technology being who can travel in outer space or know how big the planet or Star's is, it's atleast qualify for larger than solar system or at least galaxy possibly larger than observable universe to unknown degree if not infinity. But they don't even want to accept that.

 

[BlackeJan]

yall 2 lack any knowledge of Japanese language and it shows. I can say the same thing bout yall not listening when u keep glossing over the fact of a language that works on expressions and tone, unlike English. People r quite literally tired of yall complaining and it’s quite annoying. Can’t even have a decent debate unlike Burning Finger and Endou who can do that

 

[1smrizvi]

yall 2 lack any knowledge of Japanese language and it shows. I can say the same thing bout yall not listening when u keep glossing over the fact of a language that works on expressions and tone, unlike English. People r quite literally tired of yall complaining and it’s quite annoying. Can’t even have a decent debate unlike Burning Finger and Endou who can do that

Blackejan, its alright dont complain. Tomato will address their concerns. If they afterwards dont accept tomato’s arg, thats on them. Remember, totalmasterinfinity diasgreed with the sairaorg’s regulus nemea statement thats described to be “capable of splitting the earth” debunk despite translators saying that the japanese letter was said to refer to ground rather Than the literal planet earth. Of course hes bound to disagree with any of this

 

[BlackeJan]

Blackejan, its alright dont complain. Tomato will address their concerns. If they afterwards dont accept tomato’s arg, thats on them. Remember, totalmasterinfinity diasgreed with the sairaorg’s regulus nemea statement thats described to be “capable of splitting the earth” debunk despite translators saying that the japanese letter was said to refer to ground rather Than the literal planet earth. Of course hes bound to disagree with any of this

Yeah u right that my fault. If they don’t see the need to reason then I might as well let it go. Maybe one day they’ll go to learn basic japanese and see what I mean

 

[TotalMasterInfinity]

Do you even read the what op claim

Yes, I did, but like I said, most of it is nonsense, so I'll just mention the important points.
You yourself just showed where the problems with the rest lie.

 

[Tom4t0GG789]

So someone created a fake sun before the Civil War?
Who?
Why?
The fake moon and the change in the night sky were created for the benefit of the Reincarnated Devils to make the underworld more similar to the human world. What's the point of creating a fake sun when the Evil Pieces didn't even exist?

I already discussed the Sun issue from volume 0 in the thread, and as I said, it’s an inconsistency. Volume 4 states that the sky was originally purple and lacked both sun and moon, while volume 0 mentions the sun casually without explaining any changes. It doesn’t describe the sky being modified or how the sun disappeared, directly contradicting previous information without any explanation.

Yeah, it's close to the light novel, but the events take place in a different time period from the events in the novel timeline. The author's statement regarding Chichigami does appear in the anime timeline, but it doesn't say anything about it not being a different timeline. So, it doesn't change anything because it only explains the events in the anime timeline.


We know the anime hasn't confirmed the appearance of Chichigami (aside from the author's statement). We also know they find out about Chichigami during the Loki fight, but in the anime, it doesn't take place in that time period (as far as we see). The author only claims that Chichigami did appear in the anime timeline.


The EX timeline takes place before the rating game between Rias and Sairaorg Bael. We know EX mentions a timeline where Chichigami doesn't appear, and they don't find out about parallel dimensions.

Also, EX isn't the one seeing the events of different timelines, but someone else. They say they didn't come into contact with Chichigami and didn't find out about parallel dimensions.


We know they find out about Chichigami during the Loki fight, but in the anime, it doesn't take place in that time period (as far as we see). We don't know about the timeline EX talked about, so we assume it refers to the anime timeline because it's the only timeline where Issei didn't come into contact with Chichigami during Loki fight. And author confirm did appear but when not confirmed.


We also don't know how much time has passed in that timeline or how many events that person saw in different timelines.


So, it's possible that Chichigami did appear between Born and Hero.


This thread only uses a single statement regarding the anime timeline that only explains the events of the anime timeline, so it doesn't change the fact that the anime is a different timeline EX talked about.


And be have other statement regarding anime like saying some of the character is stronger than their light novel counter part
(read in the timeline blog for scan)

So I going to say for now
Anime is the only timeline we know that should be timeline ex talked about

As I said, the point of the anime timeline is not when the encounter happened. I’m not saying it occurred during Loki’s fight, but that the author stated it did happen within the anime’s chronology, which makes sense if the anime was meant to continue adapting later novels. In EX, however, it’s explicitly said that Issei never met the Seirei, meaning they had no knowledge of worlds beyond Draconic Deus. The use of the past tense in the quote implies time has passed since that non-encounter; otherwise, it would say “they will never have contact” instead of “they have no contact with another world.”

Since you don't answer the heaven star's thing I want to add to that question
https://ibb.co/PsS6j1JW
https://ibb.co/whgsNcwR
The translator himself don't know whether stars are Universe stars or heaven is the cloud City that exist in the atmosphere of the planet Earth

Why do you mention something that I myself told you I dismissed as an argument?
I originally planned to use the wiki the translator shared, including the DxD wiki, to build my argument. That’s why we asked about the observable universe. However, since it didn’t make sense to me, I discarded it and looked for another approach. I didn’t use the translator’s comments about the observable universe or the wikis; instead, I focused on the inconsistencies in volumes 18 and 21 regarding the supposed physical presence of stars. So please don’t use as an argument something I deliberately discarded for being incoherent with the thread.

• The Heaven being considered one of the main dimensions, besides not having a specification about its size, should be the same size as the main dimensions
• Given the way Le Fay called the worlds, they should all be compared in the same size.

If that so then they at least qualify for Universe by that logic you used because human world Universe are real universe other celestial bodies like moon, sun and other stars are real in human world.

Thanks to the translator, we know that the human world is the Earth itself, with the Moon outside of it. If the human world were the universe, there would be no reason to repeatedly define it as the Earth or to distinguish it from the Moon. The author would have claimed that both exist within the human world, but that's not the case.

Narratively, it also makes more sense, as all religions originate from human beliefs. If the human world were the entire universe, the text would have reflected that. The idea comes primarily from Cao Cao calling himself "universal ruler," but given the context of his techniques and the translator's input, that's not a sound argument. It's a vague statement, unrelated to dimensions.

Although it's rare for humans to reach the Moon, arguing that the worlds are a shared space would lead to several contradictions, as Ishibumi-sensei stated, where the human world clearly equates to the Earth, without making anything up, it's a fact.

• The Dimensional Gap is not infinite in size, it is just a space that separates dimensions

Thay doesn't including a statement which is has in infinity close infinitely far statement for dimensional gap.

I know that quote, but I didn’t mention it because it’s ambiguous. I mean, between 10 centimeters, there are infinitely many rational numbers, so mathematically it’s both infinitely close and infinitely far—still 10 cm apart. The mention of the Dimensional Gap is vague; the author could have said “infinitely far,” but didn’t, making it unclear whether it refers to an actual infinite distance or just a figurative interpretation.

 

[TotalMasterInfinity]

Well, at least you admitted that your arguments are based on simple disbelief and that you choose to believe this for your own comfort.
If this is what you've chosen to believe and it makes you feel comfortable, then stick with it. I have nothing more to say here. You and the rest of your friends can do whatever you want with the DxD VS Battle pages. Delete them, make all the characters 11-C, do whatever makes you happy. I have other things to do.

 

[Tom4t0GG789]

It was contested in some previous revision and was debunked, IIRC. Also, Draconic Deus was stated to be Earth, as in planet Earth, IIRC.

Anyway, place me in agree with the thread, for now, no hard feeling, but until now, I have yet to see any good counter argument from the opposition

Do you really agree? That's great!

 

[Vietthai96]

Do you really agree? That's great!

You should address the opposition arguments, such as this, because I could switch my vote if their arguments is better



Though i remember you said something about Underworld sun but i dom't remember where it is