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But that wouldn’t make sense for the scaling. That would mean characters who directly scale to kakashi would get their rating lowered despite other characters who also scale to kakashi and kakashi himself keeping those very same ratings. and this doesn’t address the entirety of my issues i mentioned
Not really related to the thread but wouldn't this effect every naruto lightning dodging feat if the author gives his own speed value to in-verse lightning?
I'm assuming that's what you mean by saying the author has lightning at sub-rel speed when the wiki has lightning at MHS+
Kirin's speed even via the zetsu statement is faster than normal irl lightning
Zetsu doesn't state a speed; he states a timeframe that a lightning bolt should be able to make the trip from the clouds to Itachi, which we then have to calc the distance of for an exact speed.
So it still should be calc stacking.
It's not the same as an attack being given an exact speed and then deriving someone's reaction speed from a calc of that.
Zetsu doesn't state a speed, he states a timeframe, a lightning bolt should be able to make the trip from the clouds to Itachi, which we then have to calc for an exact speed.
So it still should be calc stacking.
It's not the same as an attack stated to be light speed and then deriving someone's reaction speed from a calc of that.
This applies to users who exert a certain level of influence over the technique. The only direct application by Sasuke, as stated, is directing it toward the target.
Deceived's thread, at least, came from the angle of translation/kanji/hyperbole, which wasn't broached by the initial kirin thread
This just skipped everything arguing for Kirin in both the initial and second Kirin threads
There's nothing in the OP that I didn't extensively argue against in either this or that. There's like 11 pages of Kirin back n forth on the first thread alone
The OP just skipped all the arguments made and didn't provide new ones
Disagree with Kirin section FRA
HI
first of all, I intend to remove Kirin being lightspeed. Its current justification is based on the multiple statements claiming it to be SOL in the Databook, which tends to make exaggerated statements, like this. This is a case of cherry-picking, just as it is repeatedly stated to be SOL, it is also said many times to be lightning. Raiton, which Kirin falls under, is accepted as lightning and moves at the same speed (there’s even a calc. on the page). The ninjutsu databook page calls it lightning, without mentioning light.
From the fight between Sasuke and Itachi (and from the jutsu profile linked), we know that the technique wasn't directly created by Sasuke but by his fire jutsu, which heated the air in the sky and generated a thundercloud. Zetsu explains that the technique doesn't require chakra to be created, but rather requires control over lightning and the atmosphere. He also directly gives us a specific timeframe. But aside from that, Zetsu applies this reasoning by referring to Kirin as natural lightning. In the manga which I recall being the primary source of information it is repeatedly referred to as lightning, or lightning descending from the clouds.
Kirin is based on a natural meteorological phenomenon; the Databook statements in this case are mere exaggerations.
Kirin is stated by Zetsu and Sasuke to be impossible to dodge or block, on par with Amaterasu. This should cause downscaling to PT1 (I’ll only mention these to avoid too much confusion). Considering this Sasuke’s speed, in the same time frame he can cover 20m. Other characters like Kiba, Temari, and others shinobi cover 20 m, 8 m and 34 m respectively. To prevent spam, I’ll clarify this right here. The comparison to Amaterasu is not about destructive range for several reasons:
1) Amaterasu is a technique known for its casting speed, not its area of effect.I tachi can't manipulate him
2)Sasuke is near to Itachi (Zetus too). My calc. gives an estimate idea of about 41 m. Sasuke emerges unharmed from the impact. The reference is therefore to speed, focusing the damage on the lightning strike itself, not the explosion. Anyone with durability similar to Itachi’s would have no issues with the technique unless hit directly.That is also explained on the databook page
3)Zetsu talks about a time-frame, he explicitly refers to speed.
For now, I can accept that some characters might be above this level. But a ninjutsu that Sasuke uses to defeat a ninja who’s already a top-tier since the first arc, when compared to Amaterasu, has to be something he considers at least extremely fast. The Part 1 ninjas shouldn’t stand a chance against this.The evaluations of PT1 are largely supported by calculations
This wasn’t mentioned in the previous threads, and the calculation is still present on the page, but the profiles have scaling chains that lead nowhere, and it’s not listed on Madara’s page.
I think this should be removed, as it doesn’t meet the current standards.
None of this is actually shown.
The statement comes from the databook, which is secondary canon ,often contradictory or filled with exaggerations. like this
No statements regarding this. The term “light,” besides often being used figuratively, can also refer to something luminous or shining.
. The technique doesn’t originate from a natural light source, but from the user’s mouth.
Some standard's that are used to show a beam doesn't behave like real light include:
The Light Fang cuts Naruto’s staff in half and was clearly intended to cause damage. The databook itself states that it can cut things.
Since it’s an attack technique, it’s reasonable to assume that it’s tangible and can damage regular shinobi or physical beings.
Justifications such as “it travels in a straight line” are not valid evidence in support, according to the standards page, which states:
There are two standards against it versus one that doesn’t seem valid to me.
It should still be removed, as Madara moves it with his head.
The characters are currently accepted as being ten times faster; for anyone at his level, this is a ridiculous attack. It wouldn’t be a problem for anyone, and it’s hard to believe that Naruto would just stand still and watch such a slow attack until the last moment
I actually dont agree with LS Kirin myself personally but i have to disagree with OP's thread entirely, because none of the arguments are particularly convincing, given how much they rely on argumentation that has been discussed ad nauseum on previous Kirin threads over and over, and im not the OP so i have to judge the conclusions based on the arguments presented Infront of me as oppose to my own, the lightfang section is also a non sequitur because as many already stated. LF doesnt need to meet the criteria because its speed comes from a statement in lore versus its inherent properties of being light.
Given the overwhelming rejection this thread has undergone, I think it's high time a discussion rule is made for Light Fang specifically at the very least (Feel free to make a new thread for it in the Staff-Only CRT section). Kirin can be discussed later.
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