Revaluation of SS Ichigo AP

[NeonTxme]

@WhixGG forced me into this wallahi I'm finished.
Happy New Year! I hope everyone is having a wonderful time!
Since this is my first CRT, there may be a few mistakes here and there since I'm also writing this on a wonderful school night with the clock striking 3:30AM, anyways now let's cut back to the chase.

Quick rundown over the PS​

I'll keep it as short as I can knowing most of you guys are familiar with how it works. We got three major term:

1. Reishi (the particles and component material of souls and all spiritual realms such as Hueco Mundo and Soul Society.)
2. Reiryoku (the innate pattern and storage of spiritual energy within a spiritual body (Konpaku) stored in Hakusui which can be sent through the body by a booster known as Saketsu (with those being damaged the body will lose all its capabilities such as walking or speaking); every Soul possesses Reiryoku which can be emitted and amplified into one's attacks similar to how Ichigo's GT work, although after excessive usage of it they must replenish their energy.)
3. Reiatsu (the pressure exerted on the environment and other spiritual beings by a person when the aforementioned emission is used.)
   
   Under normal assumptions we can conclude that one's Reiryoku emitted equates to their Reiatsu therefore their AP and Durability can be boosted, given by Kisuke's words if a body can gain more Reiryoku then it's capable of combatting Shinigamis and such. These said Reiryoku can be boosted upon moments of great stress-factors (i.e fighting) or grave wounds; the obvious example being shown through the first stage of training with Kisuke: Ururu which is a Shinigami level that compared to Ichigo's human Konpaku was vastly superior, yet Ichigo managed to adapt and harm her after being thrown around like a ragdoll with his stress rising and his Reiryoku adding up.

More over we know that higher the Reiryoku the stronger someone can get while also being able to outclass / negate the one's with lower energies. The prime example being Kenpachi as he explains how when the collision of two Reiatsu works, with the one superior always absorbs the impact and the inferior one can't even damage via blunt or thrust attacks. There are many instances of these happening in the early arcs, let it be 20% Renji and Ichigo's fight with Ichigo surpassing his previous stats prior to being oneshotted by the latter or Byakuya mentioning Ichigo's inital Reiryoku pattern changing and growing therefore his Reiatsu and resistance to his aura are significantly increased increased.
We also know occasions when one's Konpaku being unable to handle their own emitted energy therefore being hurt by that as noted within HM Ichigo and Byakuya's fight: Ichigo with his Bankai was asserting dominance while rapidly closing distance, blizting, dodging and evading all attacks coming from Byakuya's Bankai even after he used his palms to redirect his Bankai making as twice as fast. But as the fight goes on his body is being restrained by his own Reiatsu, with him being speedblitzed by Byakuya's Senkei "speed" amp and Byakuya pointing out how he is getting slower while conforming Senkei only hardens the blades without changing their speed but only lethalness. This is reaffirmed by White after he takes control with him directly pointing the problem out while subduing Byakuya like there's no tommorow.


Revaluation for Planetary metas

the main point of interest that I wanted to present was the infamous Sokyoku feat.
Sokyoku is an execution device used to punish Shinigamis whom broken the law, with it having a release form known as Kiko Oh with offensive and defensive powers that is said to be equivalent to that of a million Zanpakutos. Further more we have the context of it being able to "overwhelm" and destroy not only the Seireitei (with it being rated as a country) but the existance of Soul Society as a whole. Also just as a single top off we know that when Kiko Oh appears to execute a Shinigami it grants the Sokyoku a 36 times amp which allows the destruction to even happen (based on the fact that "dozen" and "several" scale off 12 and 3).

Ichigo blatantly scales to this as he is more than capable of destroying the Takka (AKA the scaffold capable of tanking the Sokyoku) by asserting his Reiatsu through the Zangetsu and the initial strikes from Kiko Oh as they point out within the narrative across the scene.
Pretty straightforward isn't it? Great. But how consistent it is?

"We can assume that Aizen could be lying based of the fact that he's manipulating Hinamori into fighting Toshiro by an absurd statement."
True, but the argument would still hold up by the evidence provided within the databook while also being supported by Aizen's initial plan in gaining the Hogyoku which consists off the immense power of Sokyoku to evaporate the entire Konpaku, knowing how it'd also scale from Yama's flame in a sense that Royd Yhwach with his Blut was the only reason he was capable of enduring his flames which is also supported the fact that Jugram states how Yama's Reiatsu forms the flames around him passively.

Spoiler: Sub-Argument

Also another argument to bring up is from a non-canon game known as Bleach: Shattered Blade. The main premise of the game was that a powerful Arrancar was sealed within Sokyoku and after it shattering who breaks free while absorbing the shards of the broken Sokyoku (with each augmenting the holders power) stating how he got powerful enough to decimate the entire SS. Now why would I bring up such an idea? Well it'd be more of an iffy argument, but it implies how the original author's intent of Sokyoku being "a weapon powerful enough to destroy the entire SS", moreover the game follows up the events of Aizen's betrayal and the time Ichigo spends in the SS shown within the anime and all yada yada. (it's not my main argument, just as a qucik nod to the publishers interpretation and intentions xaxa)
Just for a quick note to make regarding Kubo's involvement with the creation of Arturo:

Bleach: Shattered Blade, known as Bleach Wii Hakujin Kirameku Rondo (BLEACH Wii 白刃きらめく輪舞曲ロンド, lit. "Bleach Wii: The Drawn Sword's Glittering Rondo") in Japan, is a video game for Nintendo's Wii that is developed by Sega. It is based off the popular anime and manga series, Bleach. The player is able to swing the characters' swords by using the Wii Remote.

Sega, in conjunction with Bleach creator Tite Kubo, has designed a character specifically for this game, named Arturo Plateado. - Wiki Pedia page

Bleach fans will want to tune in for this little fact. Sega has announced that Bleach Wii will have an all new character whose creation was supervised by series father Tite Kubo himself. The character, Altoro, will be voiced by famous voice actor Tomokazu Seki.

- Wii Bleach

"Wouldn't that be inconsistent with Ichigo's previous power-level?"
Well that's a great point if it wasn't for the zenkai boost thingy and the Accelerated Development that Ichigo has (per words accepted in his profile as well)

• Accelerated Development & Supernatural Willpower (Battle & Training, Skills, Physical Stats & Abilities; Ichigo's growth and potential is noted to be immense, being listed as the number one war power by Yhwach due to it[11]. He ludicrously grows in skill compared to the average Soul Reaper, even being noted to have gifts above the likes of Kisuke Urahara[12]. Ichigo can bridge massive gaps in skill in mere minutes[13] and can master multiple new weapons with ease, each very different than the other[14][15][16][17][18]. His growth in strength is also extremely high as he jumps leaps and bounds faster in terms of power, going from fighting on equal terms with lieutenant-class Soul Reapers[19] to one-shotting them[20] and fighting against captains[14]. He can utilize new abilities after very recently obtaining them[21][18] and swiftly learn about their strengths and weaknesses[22]. Resisted Kenpachi's Reiryoku with resolve alone,[23] which basic forms of it can induce fear into a target[24])

Also it'd be disingenuous if we question him covering up such a gaps knowing how he developed from his 4.435 Exatons key (Multi-Continental) up-to 44.16 YottaFoe key (Multi-Galaxy) after training for 3 MONTHS inside the Dangai (also keep in mind that his Dangai "form" is only his Shinigami powers fully-released without the inhibitors made by OMZ per his own words in TYBW).

"Wouldn't the in-verse be f%&cked by the new upscaling?"
Ehhh--- Yes, but no.
The current in-verse of the following characters from the SS arc is a bit weird to came across, with the likes of Base/FF Aizen being scaled up to Possibly Multi-Solar System level while literally every other character downscales from his Moon level calcs with exception of a few others. The current in-verse is as messy as it gets with no proper consistency for multipliers and static values (i.e Bankai being a 2× amp for Pre-TS Ichigo in his AP (38->77) or but 10× for casual Blut users and stuff in a similar scope.)
I will write down a chain-scaling regarding the matter tomorrow, currently no decaf can help with overclocking my brain.

Spoiler

The basics for Chain-Scaling:

Captains scaling off SS Byakuya and Ichigo:
Byakuya Kuchiki (Duhh)
Shigekuni Yamamoto Genryusai (Massively upscales from Byakuya and all other captains)
Unohana Retsu (Massively upscales from Byakuya - Downscales from Yamamato)
Toshiro Hitsuguya
Kenpachi Zaraki (upscales from Byakuya)
Shunsui Kyoraku (upscales from Byakuya - Contributed into destroying Kiko Oh alongside Jushiro)
Jushiro Ukitake (upscales from Byakuya - Relative to Shunsui)
Possibly Sajin Komamura (Comparable to Zaraki with Bankai, albeit his Base stats are equal to Sui-Feng who deemed the destruction of Sokyoku impossible.)
Characters scaling off Post-SS arc Ichigo:
Espadas such as:
Grimmjow Jaegerjaquez (Massively upscales from Ichigo)
Nnoitora Gilga (upscales from the previous-ranked Espada and Zaraki Kenpachi)
Ulquiorra Cifer (Massively upscales from the previouse-ranked Espada and Hollow Mask + Bankai Ichigo with Segunda Etapa)
Tier Harribel (upscales from the previous-ranked Espada and Bankai Toshiro)
Baraggan Louisenbairn (upscales from the previous-ranked Espada)
Coyote Starrk (upscales from the previous-ranked Espada and Shunsui)
Yammy Largo (upscales from the previous-ranked Espada and Zaraki + Byakuya)
The Visorerd such as:
Hirako Shinji (upscales from Post-Visored training Ichigo)
and the rest I'm too lazy to write them off
Characters massively scaling off all the list (Excluding Yamamato):
Sosuke Aizen (Massively upscales from all Espadas and Captains excluding Yamamato in his Base/First Fusion)
Kaname Tosen (Massively upscales from all Espadas in his Arrancar arc key)
Gin Ichimaru (Massively upscales from all Espadas and Bankai Ichigo in his Arrancar arc key)
Kisuke Urahara, Yoruichi Shihoin & Isshin Kurosaki (Massively upscaling Post-Ressurection Bankai + Hollow Mask + BGT Ichigo, equal to Aizen)

For now I'd like to hear some thoughts regarding the CRT, so see you tomorrow!

Conclusion:
Post-Bankai training key for Ichigo being upscaling to Planetary.

Agreement​	Disagreement​	Inconvenience​
​	Qawsedf234 ​ Damage3245​

Knowledgeable members
Agreement: @Saqphire
Disagreement
inconvenience

 

[NeonTxme]

I believe I should've added 1-2 more tags-

 

[Ghostimuscrime]

Give em boys an inch and they grab the whole solar system

 

[Damage3245]

Almost got my hope up for a second that this was going to be a re-evaluation to remove Ichigo scaling to the Sokyoku.

 

[Specterxxxx]

This is something I hadn't expected at all..... following

 

[Hayato5652]

Following

 

[Apotheosis69]

Well what stat specifically in Planet level are you upscaling to?

 

[Qawsedf234]

Also it'd be disingenuous if we question him covering up such a gaps knowing how he developed from his 4.435 Exatons key (Multi-Continental) up-to 44.16 YottaFoe key (Multi-Galaxy) after training for 3 MONTHS inside the Dangai (also keep in mind that his Dangai "form" is only his Shinigami powers fully-released without the inhibitors made by OMZ per his own words in TYBW).

Ichigo didn't really train here though. He got his butt kicked for three months by his merged inner spirits until he learned to accept them, after which they gave him all their power to battle Aizen.

A key thing woth Ichigo is that in-universe he always theoretically had access to 100% of his power but due to Fake Zengutsu or Ichigo's own mental hang ups he was unable to tap into his strength. If you manages to move EoTYBW Ichigo's mind to SS Ichigo, he would immediately be able to access most of his power.

So ultimately my issue is that, even in the case where we assume Ichigo just randomly stopped a 5-B attack while Aura Farming on Rukia, scaling it to his standard physicals is questionable. I find the scaling to the full brunt of the Fire Bird questionable as well, since they needed a specialized ritual device to actual stop it from stabbing at Ichigo.

So for now I'm going to say disagree, but I can wait for other arguments.

 

[Qawsedf234]

Well what stat specifically in Planet level are you upscaling to?

The OP is arguing for a general tiering upgrade. The first part of the post was to establish that Ichigo's UES would give him comparable durability to his strength output, so by blocking the Glavie anf breaking the execution platform, all of his stats would be 5-B.

Presumably they would then argue the following:

• 10x Bankai increase for AP
• Every Captian on SS Byakuya's level is upgraded
• All of the Vizards and Espanda are upgraded to 5-B to 5-A due to multiplier chains
• All of the Sternritters and some TYBW Captains are upgraded to 5-A or higher based on the previously mentioned multiplier chains

 

[KingTempest]

I'm sorry, which version of ichigo is being upscaled?

 

[Qawsedf234]

I'm sorry, which version of ichigo is being upscaled?

Post Bankai Shikai Ichigo

 

[KingTempest]

Post Bankai Shikai Ichigo

The one who destroyed the Takka?

Where is Planetary coming from?

 

[Ghostimuscrime]

The one who destroyed the Takka?

Where is Planetary coming from?

soul society is a taken as a planet, to destroy that is to be planet level


is what I think OP is proposing

 

[KingTempest]

soul society is a taken as a planet, to destroy that is to be planet level


is what I think OP is proposing

We need to seriously start distinguishing "Soul Society Nation" and "Soul Society Planet" because I'm starting to seriously hate this glass wall between them

 

[Qawsedf234]

Where is Planetary coming from?

The OP is arguing that the execution Glaive has the power to destroy the Soul Society, which would be a 5-B feat if you assume the planet. Ichigo blocking it and then breaking the platform would then scale him to 5-B.

The OP however is only saying Ichigo scales to this and forgot to mention that they're arguing for a complete verse upgrade and a massive scaling chain revision.

 

[KingTempest]

The OP is arguing that the execution Glaive has the power to destroy the Soul Society, which would be a 5-B feat if you assume the planet. Ichigo blocking it and then breaking the platform would then scale him to 5-B.

The OP however is only saying Ichigo scales to this and forgot to mention that they're arguing for a complete verse upgrade and a massive scaling chain revision.

Yeah

I'm personally disagreeing with this. Not just cause of the power being upgraded but more cause there's no reason for this to jump from "this is gonna destroy not just headquarters, but THE PLANET, it seems like a ridiculous jump in logic

We need to calculate the soul society landmass and not just the damn planet

 

[Ghostimuscrime]

We need to seriously start distinguishing "Soul Society Nation" and "Soul Society Planet" because I'm starting to seriously hate this glass wall between them

To my recollection the soul society is never referred to within planetary contexts, not once in any form of bleach canon


It is generally referred to as the country aka Seretei + Rukongai area, but at times can even be used in context of the whole dimension/plane, usually when you see them mention three worlds (In the same vein we'd call our universe the human world if the main cast in a fictional setting goes to a different universe, even tho human world is just the planet but we'd refer to the universe as the human world either way because that's the relevant differentiating factor for us in this hypothetical scenario)

Planet however seems like a middle ground interp never implied by the series, the soul society is accepted as a whole space continuum by itself currently, so if someone is arguing Ichigo scales to powers that can destroy all of the soul society they'd have to argue he's low-2C instead of 5-B


Naturally assuming the whole structure is being referenced would require more evidence than just saying it'll destroy the soul society since we know Ichigo refers to yhwach's invasion as "wrecking the soul society" and we obviously know yhwach wasn't attacking random stars so the default assumption cannot be all of the dimension or even all of the planet since yhwach attacked a very specific location within the planet within the realm, not saying the Sokyoku cannot refer to the dimension as a whole but that would be something OP would need to prove

 

[Qawsedf234]

argue he's low-2C instead of 5-B

Unless it can erase space-time, it would be 3-A under this interpretation

 

[KingTempest]

But yeah, point made

 

[Saqphire]

To be honest, the main point of contention (and thus the crux of the argument) is what is defined as "Soul Society" here.

Because Kubo intentionally makes it ambigous as to what is considered as Soul Society. In the original arc where the Sokyoku was a major threat, Soul Society was defined as a simple city with a centre-ville called Seireitei. In Burn The Witch, Soul Society was implied to be their version of Earth (and other factors as to why it was merely considered a planet on here for several years) and finally, in the novels, manga and the TYBW anime, Soul Society is also known as a parallel universe via multiple implications and statements (the current accepted definition of SS aka the correct one).

Point being, even if we grant Aizen's statements to be true, we still need to define what is known as Soul Society, and the planetary interpretation is not the lowest one especially when they define it in the same arc as a city lol, so I agree with the premise but not with the conclusion (thus I disagree).

 

[KingTempest]

When they say "not just the seireitei but the soul society as well" i take it more as "not just london but england"

makes no sense to jump from a city to a planet. that's honestly just dumb

 

[Saqphire]

When they say "not just the seireitei but the soul society as well" i take it more as "not just london but england"

makes no sense to jump from a city to a planet. that's honestly just dumb

Uhm... you may want to downgrade Gurren Lagann then, cuz those mfs go from like continent level to high complex within one arc which is a way bigger jump than what OP is proposing. Simply saying "oh the jump being proposed seems to be too big to me so i disagree!!" is not a valid argument especially when you don't have any basis behind why that jump is too big, and why your proposed power jump makes more sense

 

[KingTempest]

Uhm... you may want to downgrade Gurren Lagann then, cuz those mfs go from like continent level to high complex within one arc which is a way bigger jump than what OP is proposing. Simply saying "oh the jump being proposed seems to be too big to me so i disagree!!" is not a valid argument especially when you don't have any basis behind why that jump is too big

i'm not saying that the jump in power is crazy, i'm saying the jump in the dialogue. "It won't just destroy the city, but the planet" is what i mean.
It's like saying "He's not just supersonic, he's faster than light!" like nobody realistically talks like that. They woulda just said it would nuke the planet.

That's why when yamamoto did his shit and boiled all the water in the SS, they didn't say stupid shit like "it won't just destroy the rukongai" like the intention is already made

i don't think it was kubo's intent to jump from "it's not just gonna do A, but it's gonna do Z" it's skipping a lot of steps.

Please don't focus on this point I do not care enough

 

[Ghostimuscrime]

Also KT didn't reject it simply cuz of the big jump, he said it doesn't make sense, which is a valid thought because it is vague as hell and requires a lot of mental gymnastics to comprehend

Unless it can erase space-time, it would be 3-A under this interpretation

erm akshually it'll be high-3a because muken is an infinite sized dungeon making the soul society transfinite/s

 

[Apotheosis69]

Its just a semantic Case-by-Case basis.

 

[KingTempest]

case by case which specifically shouldn't work for this scenario unless they just have a planet level weapon lying around for the absolute lowest tier captains to scale to

 

[Saqphire]

case by case which specifically shouldn't work for this scenario unless they just have a planet level weapon lying around for the absolute lowest tier captains to scale to

They do in MoN lol

 

[Cipher72]

Uhm... you may want to downgrade Gurren Lagann then, cuz those mfs go from like continent level to high complex within one arc which is a way bigger jump than what OP is proposing.

You leave GL alone
Anyways as pointed out by everyone I personally don't think there's sufficient evidence to support the Sokyoku being Planetary so I have to personally disagree.

 

[NeonTxme]

Almost got my hope up for a second that this was going to be a re-evaluation to remove Ichigo scaling to the Sokyoku.

LOL

Well what stat specifically in Planet level are you upscaling to?

I'd like to argue to argue the standard earth scaling-
Let's see how the CRT even plays out

I find the scaling to the full brunt of the Fire Bird questionable as well, since they needed a specialized ritual device to actual stop it from stabbing at Ichigo.

Just in-case: Ichigo had dismissed the Fire Bird once, the device used by Shunsui and Ukitake served as a support when the second strike came out with Ichigo pointing it out and calling Kiko Oh "backing up for a second strike?" while Rukia shouts atop of her lungs to say you can't do that shii again and all which then the captains destroyed the Sokyoku. Also I'd like to mention that Ichigo is most likely to scale off Takka due to how he asserted his reiatsu into it and destroyed that portion of it, knowing how the captains and Rukia once again deemed such an act impossible even though they had prior knowledge of Ichigo fighting Kenpachi and alikes of him.

The OP is arguing for a general tiering upgrade. The first part of the post was to establish that Ichigo's UES would give him comparable durability to his strength output, so by blocking the Glavie anf breaking the execution platform, all of his stats would be 5-B.

Presumably they would then argue the following:

• 10x Bankai increase for AP
• Every Captian on SS Byakuya's level is upgraded
• All of the Vizards and Espanda are upgraded to 5-B to 5-A due to multiplier chains
• All of the Sternritters and some TYBW Captains are upgraded to 5-A or higher based on the previously mentioned multiplier chains

yeah that's my intention- albeit, I'm more leaning to the Takka feat and dismissing the strike, but yeah (Whix is desperate for planetary Full Hollow don't blame me/jk)

We need to seriously start distinguishing "Soul Society Nation" and "Soul Society Planet" because I'm starting to seriously hate this glass wall between them

I believe Seireitei and SS being distinguished would be sufficent. Seireitei acts as the society part known as the capital of Rukongai with other branches being on other sides like Reverse London and all, it'd be pretty redundant for Aizen to scale off Sokyoku based on only the people or nations even though we had prior conformation of it.

The OP is arguing that the execution Glaive has the power to destroy the Soul Society, which would be a 5-B feat if you assume the planet. Ichigo blocking it and then breaking the platform would then scale him to 5-B.

The OP however is only saying Ichigo scales to this and forgot to mention that they're arguing for a complete verse upgrade and a massive scaling chain revision.

yes I'm totally aware of this even beforehand I told Whix we MIGHT f up the entire chainscaling, but eh now we're here I prefer to at least give it a go.

I'm personally disagreeing with this. Not just cause of the power being upgraded but more cause there's no reason for this to jump from "this is gonna destroy not just headquarters, but THE PLANET, it seems like a ridiculous jump in logic

Wouldn't be far-fetched as said before, knowing how the functions of Sokyoku are relative to that of Yamaji' Bankai there's room to think of it, just be glad I didn't argue Uni+ Ichigo xaxa

Planet however seems like a middle ground interp never implied by the series, the soul society is accepted as a whole space continuum by itself currently, so if someone is arguing Ichigo scales to powers that can destroy all of the soul society they'd have to argue he's low-2C instead of 5-B

That wouldn't be the case with the likes of Yamaji then?(actually I'm not aware of how we treat "the destruction of Soul Society" statements given to him, I only know him downscaling from Zero Division and upscaling from Gremmy's feats)

Point being, even if we grant Aizen's statements to be true, we still need to define what is known as Soul Society, and the planetary interpretation is not the lowest one especially when they define it in the same arc as a city lol, so I agree with the premise but not with the conclusion (thus I disagree).

got my hopes again :sigh:
I agree on your behalf knowing Kubos way of doing these stuff, but with statements such as "it overwhelms everything in existence" via its Reiatsu it'd be weird to assume it being only on that range of power. Further on the totally NOT main argument I had regarding the non canon game (which yet again, I repeat: it's only to make a point from the authors intent knowing how they are using the same source material as us) that Arrancar was intending the destroy the entire planet and all with him even beating Yamaji, sooo we can argue something over here?

When they say "not just the seireitei but the soul society as well" i take it more as "not just london but england"

makes no sense to jump from a city to a planet. that's honestly just dumb

wouldn't also makes sense for the main capital where everyone live within to jump to a "larger" city as whole. In context of the scene we are also having emphasis on how Sokyoku is powered and made, why would Aizen give that much context just for it to be a "city-wide" level feat despite Captains already breaching that state (at least in sense of our powerscaling)
It either have to overpower the entire Gotei 13 to achieve destroying the "society" as meaning of nation (which includes Yama and Unohana) or destroy the planet.

i'm not saying that the jump in power is crazy, i'm saying the jump in the dialogue. "It won't just destroy the city, but the planet" is what i mean.
It's like saying "He's not just supersonic, he's faster than light!" like nobody realistically talks like that. They woulda just said it would nuke the planet.

That's why when yamamoto did his shit and boiled all the water in the SS, they didn't say stupid shit like "it won't just destroy the rukongai" like the intention is already made

i don't think it was kubo's intent to jump from "it's not just gonna do A, but it's gonna do Z" it's skipping a lot of steps.

Please don't focus on this point I do not care enough

that's really like Appeal to Incredulity-
the semantics would still hold up to a certain degree as I said previously.

case by case which specifically shouldn't work for this scenario unless they just have a planet level weapon lying around for the absolute lowest tier captains to scale to

not really incase knowing how accessing the Sokyoku requires the usage of Kido and all alongside the fact that said captains managed to dismiss the second attack.

 

[WhixGG]

Naturally assuming the whole structure is being referenced would require more evidence than just saying it'll destroy the soul society since we know Ichigo refers to yhwach's invasion as "wrecking the soul society" and we obviously know yhwach wasn't attacking random stars so the default assumption cannot be all of the dimension or even all of the planet since yhwach attacked a very specific location within the planet within the realm, not saying the Sokyoku cannot refer to the dimension as a whole but that would be something OP would need to prove

It should be said that Soul Society has three different meanings, including seireitei, Soul Society Universe which is low 2-c by itself, and Soul Society planet. So Soul Society can have different meanings in different situations. If we were to proceed with the discussion based on Ichigo's words during the quincies invasion, Soul Society would only mean Seireitei. However, this is not the case. As we have seen and supported in the guidebooks, it is said that it has the ability to destroy not just seireitei but existence and Soul Society as well, Since Soul Society and the world of the living are two sides of the same coin and parallel, it can be said that the planet that the Shinigamies live on is equal to the same Earth. As I said, in the guidebooks, the ability of the sokyoku spiritual pressure power is equal to the destruction of existence, which we can consider equal to everything on Earth, as well as the Earth itself.
On the other hand, we cannot interpret the term "Soul Society" here as meaning the entire dimension or the universe of "Soul Society", because it has no specific context in this case and is also not logical.

 

[Specterxxxx]

case by case which specifically shouldn't work for this scenario unless they just have a planet level weapon lying around for the absolute lowest tier captains to scale to

Actually, in MON (memories of nobody) it is established that the seretei possesses the kido canon which is a upgraded version of the sokyoku capable of destroying a dimension that houses a star. So a variant capable of ensuring planet destruction is interpretable.

Tho I still think this CRT should be still evaluated properly because this is proposing a massive verse revision, literally every body in the verse.

 

[NeonTxme]

Actually, in MON (memories of nobody) it is established that the seretei possesses the kido canon which is a upgraded version of the sokyoku capable of destroying a dimension that houses a star. So a variant capable of ensuring planet destruction is interpretable.

Tho I still think this CRT should be still evaluated properly because this is proposing a massive verse revision, literally every body in the verse.

Lowkesomethingnuiely made tears fall down from my eyes :loveyou:
I also agree, I'll write the chain-scaling and all if it goes any better than 3 disagreement from staff members-

 

[Ralp0054]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the comparison between SS and seireitei, specifically the "not just London, but England" analogy, made sense until I remembered that in the Burn the Witch anime, the reverse of London was written as SS West Coast. I think it wouldn't be wrong to assume that SS is a planet here.

 

[KingTempest]

...
"The reverse of a city was noted as the west coast of a state" means it's assuming planet?

 

[Cipher72]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the comparison between SS and seireitei, specifically the "not just London, but England" analogy, made sense until I remembered that in the Burn the Witch anime, the reverse of London was written as SS West Coast. I think it wouldn't be wrong to assume that SS is a planet here.

The probelm is with the assumption, there's simply not enough to suggest that it was referring to the very Planet. There's a possibility yes but imo it makes no sense for it to be Planetary because Ichigo in SS arc casually blocked it and then aura farmed whereas later on Ulq's best DC feat with Lanza is only continental(higher via powerscaling) and that guy managed to dog a Masked Ichigo post training. Now ofc AP≠DC but I am suggesting that if Ichigo was truly capable of Planetary AP as early as SS arc then Ulq's feat which focuses on DC makes no sense. So I have to disagree here. I am open to having my mind changed though.

 

[Ralp0054]

Given the information we have, the argument that this affects the success of other characters is a good counter-argument, but I definitely agree with the claims that SS is not a planet. Burn the Witch created a map in my head: SS is a planet that is a mirror image of Earth, Seireitei is an Asian country located on SS, and Ters Londa is a city located on the western continent or country of SS. I understand the debate about whether SS itself is a dimension or a planet, but come on kids, are we starting to call SS a country now?

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

No opinion on the proposal.

Soul Society is everything passed the Seireitei. After that it depends on the context.

 

[Saqphire]

The probelm is with the assumption, there's simply not enough to suggest that it was referring to the very Planet. There's a possibility yes but imo it makes no sense for it to be Planetary because Ichigo in SS arc casually blocked it and then aura farmed whereas later on Ulq's best DC feat with Lanza is only continental(higher via powerscaling) and that guy managed to dog a Masked Ichigo post training. Now ofc AP≠DC but I am suggesting that if Ichigo was truly capable of Planetary AP as early as SS arc then Ulq's feat which focuses on DC makes no sense. So I have to disagree here. I am open to having my mind changed though.

This is just a non-argument. Chain scaling and destructive feats were never correlative in Bleach and in general (case in point; Ishida having building level DC yet being stronger than Senjumaru who can shake the three realms) and the size of Lanza's explosion is headcanon. Chain scaling is correlative to Bankai amps and "strongest" statements aka AP, please don't derail the thread with nonsense AP = DC arguments

 

[KingTempest]

This is just a non-argument. Chain scaling and destructive feats were never correlative in Bleach and in general (case in point; Ishida having building level DC yet being stronger than Senjumaru who can shake the three realms) and the size of Lanza's explosion is headcanon. Chain scaling is correlative to Bankai amps and "strongest" statements aka AP

You missed the entire point

 

[Saqphire]

You missed the entire point

His entire disagreement stems from Ulquiorra somehow not having a better DC example than Sokyoku's hypothetical statement from Aizen (and as such, the range cannot possibly refer to the planet); so what exactly is his point other than saying AP = DC?