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The Best Character in the Big 3 enters Tier 5 (Naruto Top Tiers Verse Wide Revision)

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That was in regards to the initial proposal, after I dropped it and updated the sandbox he said it's fine on disc and I think he got busy irl since I havent heard from him since

not counting it here since it was an off site vote obviously so not much to wait for outside obitos profile stuff
 
Godernet said:
Before I get into discussing that specific calc a bit later there are a couple of things I noticed about the Obito profile, skimming through it.

  • Justification for the Katon in Teen Obito's first key needed (especially since we have that 2x statement for Katon, that could work.)
  • Teen Obito's LS says Superhuman, Class M. Is this supposed to be a possible/likely? or a higher rating for a specific technique. It seems like the former, so that probably needs to be fixed.
  • A justification and reference for Obito's second key being unknown would be nice, especially since we have the statement of his body being weaker at the time. As well as something for his Katon and Mokuton.
  • Masked Man Obito has a "higher with Kurama" that should be "High 6-A with Kurama" by the logic of the CRT.
  • Masked Man Obito has "At least Class M, Class T" LS. Is this supposed to be another possibility?
  • DMS Obito's justifications need a lot more fleshing out; it says possibly 5-B but doesn't have a base rating. and should outline that the damage Kakashi did was via Raikiri (tbh, given how Kakashi did this by a Kamui-infused Raikiri, Obito should be downscaled rather than fully scaled to it.
  • gross anime PFP on the front instead of the nice manga PFP that Kaydee rendered for a manga profile😔
Click to expand...
fixed these problems, changed DMS stuff to sum else

I removed PS from the DMS key because it wasnt shown, it wasnt my insertion so whoever did can defend that if they want but as of now I don't believe he should be getting something he's hasn't shown being able to do nor implied to be able to do
 
Ghost and I hashed out some of my concerns as far as the God Tree calc is concerned off-site, and he has since changed the scaling to a middle ground that I can more or less agree with.

There are a couple of things I wanna address real quick...

...like the Hokage having H6A with completely unknown barrier techniques. I get that they all helped create it, but...

- For one, the Hokage ain't built the same. Hashirama has KCM2 levels of chakra with the capacity to make jutsu stronger than Kurama, and making the barrier left him barely able to make 5 wood clones afterwards. idk if I'd consider splitting the value by 1/4th as an accurate way to gauge each's level of contribution.

- 4RYF is described as an insanely powerful barrier technique with a uniquely impregnable strudiness, splitting the value, kinda ignores the fact that even if the same chakra is poured into it, the other lesser and frankly unknown barrier jutsu might just be innately less durable.

If other staff have different comments on that, I don't mind a possibly or something to that effect.

  • Extrasensory Perception (Shinobi can instinctively perceive chakra auras, hostile intent, and bloodlust without the need for direct visual or auditory cues.[50] Even without formal sensory-type training, skilled individuals can detect fluctuations in chakra or malice in their surroundings. For instance, Sasuke Uchiha was able to sense the faint aura of his brother Itachi from a minute flicker of chakra, something a normal child would not have been able to notice.[51] Similarly, various ninja are shown freezing or reacting to oppressive auras injected with killing intent of powerful enemies like Orochimaru[52] or Zabuza.[53])

(This should be limited ESP at best, as they can't actively sense anybody they want to; just those with aura's so powerful that they produce outward effects. To be frank, I'm not even sure if it's a sensory ability or if this just says more about the potency of the aura produced by people like Zabuza and Orochimaru that they're palpable. Which we do already accept as an ability that Elite Jounin and above tiers have.)

  • Power Nullification (Black Receivers are able to negate high-ranking ninjutsus such as Sasuke's Amaterasu amped Susanoo Arrow. [226])

(Not sure if I would call this Power Null tbh, more like it blocked the arrow than negating its effects.)

  • Damage Reduction (Sage Mode reinforces the user’s body with Nature Energy, drastically reducing damage taken from physical impacts and piercing attacks[387]) & Pain Suppression (While in Sage Mode, should be comparable to Naruto, who is able to withstanding normally debilitating injuries with minimal discomfort, showing little reaction to impacts and trauma such as falling onto sharp rock formations.

(This isn't Damage Reduction. He just has better durability and endurance than before.

There's a big difference in reducing how your body sustains damage as an ability and just being able to sustain more damage than before.

What helps cement this is that we're explicitly told that Sage Mode amps stats, including durability, but never told or shown that it has a damage-reducing effect.)

  • Limited Telekinesis (Six Paths Senjutsu users can control Truth Seeking Orbs up to 70 meters. [433])

(This is just Weapon Control)

  • Multi-Continent level with Susano'o (The Susano'o greatly surpasses its user in strength, and his Full Body Humanoid Susano'o should be somewhat comparable to that of his alive self, as Edos were revived at near their full strength[128][Statistics Values 34])

(For Edo Madara, this should be higher up to High 6-A, as we know his weaker Susanoo forms, like the ribcage and legged susanoo, are still susceptible to Bijuu-level people like the Kage (more specifically Tsunade, Onoki, and Ay)

  • up to Moon level with strongest TSO attacks (Comparable to Attack Potency.[Statistics Values 24])
(For this, in his Dura section, it should say up to Moon level with TSB Shields rather than the strongest attacks)


  • up to Moon level with strongest attacks (Comparable to Attack Potency. [Statistics Values 24])

(This should probably be removed from the striking strength section, considering that, at the moment, we'll be scaling the Shinju calc to his strongest Jutsu rather than H2H.)

...so yeah, outside of that, I think everything else is fine (y)
 
Net and I discussed his response in private, and he mostly mirrors my stances on things. So, yeah, outside of the things Net has pointed out, I'm okay with everything else for the time being.

If I had to choose a single hill to die on, it'd honestly be the abilities lol.
 
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Godernet said:
  • Multi-Continent level with Susano'o (The Susano'o greatly surpasses its user in strength, and his Full Body Humanoid Susano'o should be somewhat comparable to that of his alive self, as Edos were revived at near their full strength[128][Statistics Values 34])
(For Edo Madara, this should be higher up to High 6-A, as we know his weaker Susanoo forms, like the ribcage and legged susanoo, are still susceptible to Bijuu-level people like the Kage (more specifically Tsunade, Onoki, and Ay)
Click to expand...
The Kage don't scale to his Legged Susanoo, which is what gets the High 6-A rating in the first place, just the Legged Susanoos of his clones at best (and when fighting the real Madara, they have to combo to even break through his Ribcage Susanoo)


Though I agree on separating the regular Susanoo from the Legged
 
Damage3245 said:
For the barrier, how about we just list the full rating of the barrier on each of their profiles, but we note in the description of it and their weaknesses that they can only use the barrier with the other Hokage contributing to it?
Click to expand...
I'm okay with this suggestion. In the Jutsu's DB entry it even states that it requires four Hokage class Shinobi to perform it, so hypothetically even if one were powerful enough to power it on their own, you still need four individuals. (Maybe Hashirama could cheat it out with clones, but that's beside the point lol)
 
Damage3245 said:
For the barrier, how about we just list the full rating of the barrier on each of their profiles, but we note in the description of it and their weaknesses that they can only use the barrier with the other Hokage contributing to it?
Click to expand...
That works too tbh

Not unlike what we do for Majestic Attire Susanoo
 
Will let Alt tackle the hax stuff since they're not my additions
Godernet said:
If other staff have different comments on that, I don't mind a possibly or something to that effect.
Click to expand...
All but Hashirama and Minato are already given possibly's in their sandboxes

Godernet said:
Multi-Continent level with Susano'o (The Susano'o greatly surpasses its user in strength, and his Full Body Humanoid Susano'o should be somewhat comparable to that of his alive self, as Edos were revived at near their full strength[128][Statistics Values 34])
(For Edo Madara, this should be higher up to High 6-A, as we know his weaker Susanoo forms, like the ribcage and legged susanoo, are still susceptible to Bijuu-level people like the Kage (more specifically Tsunade, Onoki, and Ay)
Click to expand...
Don't really care about this or have a conflict with it but I'll let Sparkle and you hash it out, but think its ideal to specify humanoid is where high 6a begins or else someone in vs matches might think the ribcage can go high6a which would not be what is accepted

Godernet said:
up to Moon level with strongest TSO attacks (Comparable to Attack Potency.[Statistics Values 24])
(For this, in his Dura section, it should say up to Moon level with TSB Shields rather than the strongest attacks)
up to Moon level with strongest attacks (Comparable to Attack Potency. [Statistics Values 24])
(This should probably be removed from the striking strength section, considering that, at the moment, we'll be scaling the Shinju calc to his strongest Jutsu rather than H2H.)
Click to expand...
fixed
 
Godernet said:
  • Extrasensory Perception (Shinobi can instinctively perceive chakra auras, hostile intent, and bloodlust without the need for direct visual or auditory cues.[50] Even without formal sensory-type training, skilled individuals can detect fluctuations in chakra or malice in their surroundings. For instance, Sasuke Uchiha was able to sense the faint aura of his brother Itachi from a minute flicker of chakra, something a normal child would not have been able to notice.[51] Similarly, various ninja are shown freezing or reacting to oppressive auras injected with killing intent of powerful enemies like Orochimaru[52] or Zabuza.[53])

(This should be limited ESP at best, as they can't actively sense anybody they want to; just those with aura's so powerful that they produce outward effects. To be frank, I'm not even sure if it's a sensory ability or if this just says more about the potency of the aura produced by people like Zabuza and Orochimaru that they're palpable. Which we do already accept as an ability that Elite Jounin and above tiers have.)

  • Power Nullification (Black Receivers are able to negate high-ranking ninjutsus such as Sasuke's Amaterasu amped Susanoo Arrow. [226])

(Not sure if I would call this Power Null tbh, more like it blocked the arrow than negating its effects.)

  • Damage Reduction (Sage Mode reinforces the user’s body with Nature Energy, drastically reducing damage taken from physical impacts and piercing attacks[387]) & Pain Suppression (While in Sage Mode, should be comparable to Naruto, who is able to withstanding normally debilitating injuries with minimal discomfort, showing little reaction to impacts and trauma such as falling onto sharp rock formations.

(This isn't Damage Reduction. He just has better durability and endurance than before.

There's a big difference in reducing how your body sustains damage as an ability and just being able to sustain more damage than before.

What helps cement this is that we're explicitly told that Sage Mode amps stats, including durability, but never told or shown that it has a damage-reducing effect.)

  • Limited Telekinesis (Six Paths Senjutsu users can control Truth Seeking Orbs up to 70 meters. [433])

(This is just Weapon Control)
Click to expand...

Godernet said:
  • Extrasensory Perception (Shinobi can instinctively perceive chakra auras, hostile intent, and bloodlust without the need for direct visual or auditory cues.[50] Even without formal sensory-type training, skilled individuals can detect fluctuations in chakra or malice in their surroundings. For instance, Sasuke Uchiha was able to sense the faint aura of his brother Itachi from a minute flicker of chakra, something a normal child would not have been able to notice.[51] Similarly, various ninja are shown freezing or reacting to oppressive auras injected with killing intent of powerful enemies like Orochimaru[52] or Zabuza.[53])

(This should be limited ESP at best, as they can't actively sense anybody they want to; just those with aura's so powerful that they produce outward effects. To be frank, I'm not even sure if it's a sensory ability or if this just says more about the potency of the aura produced by people like Zabuza and Orochimaru that they're palpable. Which we do already accept as an ability that Elite Jounin and above tiers have.)
Click to expand...
I am pretty sure this is an abilities and not simply a consequence of potency. As Shinboi not only are able to sense bloodlust and chakra auras but hostile intentions as well, that would not be possible if they were simply hit with one’s bloodlust. Instead of sensing it. Similarly I don’t think it should be limited for the simple reason that kids can pick up on these hostile intentions even when aura’s are not involved
Godernet said:
  • Power Nullification (Black Receivers are able to negate high-ranking ninjutsus such as Sasuke's Amaterasu amped Susanoo Arrow. [226])

(Not sure if I would call this Power Null tbh, more like it blocked the arrow than negating its effects.)
Click to expand...
Don’t look at me, this was accepted by someone else in another CRT
Godernet said:
  • Damage Reduction (Sage Mode reinforces the user’s body with Nature Energy, drastically reducing damage taken from physical impacts and piercing attacks[387]) & Pain Suppression (While in Sage Mode, should be comparable to Naruto, who is able to withstanding normally debilitating injuries with minimal discomfort, showing little reaction to impacts and trauma such as falling onto sharp rock formations.

(This isn't Damage Reduction. He just has better durability and endurance than before.

There's a big difference in reducing how your body sustains damage as an ability and just being able to sustain more damage than before.

What helps cement this is that we're explicitly told that Sage Mode amps stats, including durability, but never told or shown that it has a damage-reducing effect.)
Click to expand...
Frog Pa explains this as “activating” one’s body to resisting such piercing/blunt attacks. We know that peps in nard activity have to be pouring chakra into specific areas of their body to have supernatural durability, hence why off guard feats exists. But in this case nard simply being in sage mode has this effect passively.

he has higher durability in sage mode because he reduced damage 😛
Godernet said:
  • Limited Telekinesis (Six Paths Senjutsu users can control Truth Seeking Orbs up to 70 meters. [433])

(This is just Weapon Control)
Click to expand...
Makes sense
 
AlternativePrinciple said:
I am pretty sure this is an abilities and not simply a consequence of potency. As Shinboi not only are able to sense bloodlust and chakra auras but hostile intentions as well, that would not be possible if they were simply hit with one’s bloodlust. Instead of sensing it. Similarly I don’t think it should be limited for the simple reason that kids can pick up on these hostile intentions even when aura’s are not involved
Click to expand...
Them sensing different things doesn't change that it's limited. The limitation isn't in regards to how many things they can pick up on, it's in regards to there being conditions for their sensing to kick off in the first place (that being super powerful individuals whose chakra is so potent it becomes clear to everyone). This is in opposition to actual sensors who can actively pick up on anyone's chakra (plus all the other stuff you mentioned) whenever they wish, with the exception of those who can erase their aura completely.
AlternativePrinciple said:
Don’t look at me, this was accepted by someone else in another CRT
Click to expand...
It's still wrong, so there's no reason to accept it here.
AlternativePrinciple said:
Frog Pa explains this as “activating” one’s body to resisting such piercing/blunt attacks. We know that peps in nard activity have to be pouring chakra into specific areas of their body to have supernatural durability, hence why off guard feats exists. But in this case nard simply being in sage mode has this effect passively.

he has higher durability in sage mode because he reduced damage
Click to expand...
That's still dura and endurance. It being a passive state doesn't change that. Same goes for chakra cloaks, for example.
 
UchihaSlayer96 said:
Them sensing different things doesn't change that it's limited. The limitation isn't in regards to how many things they can pick up on, it's in regards to there being conditions for their sensing to kick off in the first place (that being super powerful individuals whose chakra is so potent it becomes clear to everyone). This is in opposition to actual sensors who can actively pick up on anyone's chakra (plus all the other stuff you mentioned) whenever they wish, with the exception of those who can erase their aura completely.

It's still wrong, so there's no reason to accept it here.

That's still dura and endurance. It being a passive state doesn't change that. Same goes for chakra cloaks, for example.
Click to expand...
I am going to get buried by a bible worth of text

I’ll have those removed/changed from profiles than 😼
 
UchihaSlayer96 said:
In that case, I can live with the proposals at this point.

Though, don't hold it against me if I end up disagreeing with something in the future after I get a chance to do a deep-dive on everything that's changed in the past few months while I was away.
Click to expand...
Wdyt of Juubito scaling to 2x of BSM Naruto (which is not a thing rn)
 
UchihaSlayer96 said:
Um, isn't it? Wasn't Naruto 100TT while Obito was 200TT? At least that's how I had it before IIRC, I haven't looked at the profiles in a while tbh lol, so not sure if that changed.
Click to expand...
Indeed, I'm saying the current proposal has them scaling to the same value, which me and Ghost had a disagreement over that didn't really get resolved
UchihaSlayer96 said:
Either way, I'm cool with Obito scaling 2x above.
Click to expand...
🔥
 
2x BSM legit can’t exist if BSM Naruto gets his 100 pets scaling from Obitos TSB shields to begin with


You can argue maybe like the stronger TSO attacks get 2x but his stronger attacks are already 5-C


And the old line of top tiers scaling was flawed hence me removing it with newer stuff
 
BSM Naruto is currently scaling above the Deity Gates and FCRF through damaging Juubito's TSO barriers, which is sorta fine since even if Juubito scales 2x above him due to fighting off two ppl at his level simultaneously, BSM Naruto still scales closer to Juubito than those jutsu (although it is complicated somewhat by that Juubito being nerfed)

Plus, in the case of other attacks hitting at the same time but technically being separate, you can sorta say that doesn't necessarily equate to 2x AP, but Juubito's TSO was literally able to repel Naruto and Minato combining their chakras into one Rasengan, which is pretty blatant 2x scaling
0645-009.png
 
My Goat's Profile has been updated at lastttttttt🔥🔥

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Obito Uchiha

Obito Uchiha was a good natured Shinobi from Konohagakure, a member of Team Minato, and a descendant of the renowned Uchiha Clan. He was believed to have died in battle during the Third Shinobi World War leaving nothing behind but one of his Sharingan for his best friend Kakashi Hatake to...
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All changes are applied, all that’s left is to remove the Deku matchup which I’ll do when Kay unlocks the profile but aside that this thread’s tasks are complete and can be closed 👍🏽
 
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