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Ms Marvel is weaker than no satellite Super Skrull, who is half the power of satellite Super Skrull (Marvel Team-Up Volume 1 Issue 62)
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The Mah-vel Unfawking Thread Step Three: I Came Back with Milk
- Thread starter The_Impress
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We see the satellite amped Skrulls fighting her and she manages to hurt him, and she tanked his the thing punch, she can still downscale from him.
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She was nearly knocked out by his Thing punch, but I do think downscaling her sounds fair. Probably to half whatever his value is, since he's only at half power without the satellite.
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To be fair she was distracted. Actually Super Skrull hit her once when her Kree emotions "clouded her mind" (Kree genetics somehow allows to inheritent previous generations information) Then when she was nearly knocked out she was also distracted by the carvorite crystal.
As for his satellite thing it's stated in this very issue that his powers with the satellite became nearly as strong as him without it.
I don't know much about Skrull but this satellite probably disapeared and his strenght became full even without it, that's my guess since the other times he shows up in stories I read don't mention satellite at all.
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In that last scan, it shows Ms. Marvel saying she can't match him. Are there other things that indicate she can scale despite that? Also, if Super Skrull did grow to the level of his satellite amped self, what kinds of feats do characters have against him after that?
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It's the fact she is weaker the reason she downscales instead of fully scaling to him, she can still fight him taking attacks from him, also it's shown that as long as it's not the things power she can take it and hurt him, only the thing hands were actually a problem and she can still take attacks from it and survive although injured.
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Honestly don't know, I don't read much of Super Skrull I heard he as multiple planet destroying feats, I remember although much more recent Super Skrull fought Hulkling and when both mimic F4's powers they seemed close.
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- Thread starter
- #409
Yeah it is because it's how the bullshit mechanics work. Basically it's the same thing as Volume 1
Feat is bullshit because it's done through the Cosmic Cube.
Human Torch is variable. His scaling is independent.
I've addressed 'em, fella's just never satisfied.
Remind me what issue was this.
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Pretty sure it’s Infinity Gauntlet Issue 2.Yeah it is because it's how the bullshit mechanics work. Basically it's the same thing as Volume 1
Feat is bullshit because it's done through the Cosmic Cube.
Human Torch is variable. His scaling is independent.
I've addressed 'em, fella's just never satisfied.
Remind me what issue was this.
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Near as strong could still mean half. Spider-Man says he’s at half power also in this same issue and not even half a day passes between the two scenes. She also still isn’t as strong as him without the satellite, even though he was weakened, both stated verbatim
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Aside from being described and seen as an explosion (Booom makes it very clear) multiple times, Reed Richards shows up on his issue and states it's an explosion, this issue also states carvorite crystal reacts different to different types and amounts of energy, but I have to accept that your opinion is more valid?
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I mean, what calcing system are you using for that? Coz I think the surface area wrecks it.
Yes <3
In all seriousness if Brian Reed didn't get a memo of how the crystal worked, and they can't even keep it consistent whether it could blow up the planet or half the planet, or whatever, that's just bad representation. The crystals teleport shit, and the explosion destroys fuckall. "Implosion" wasn't the imperative factor, and if the feat directly contradicts two different showcases by different writers it's a bad feat.
Even beyond this, this feat has a weirdass instance where the collective of the earth-wiping Cavorite crystals got blown away out of the Earth's range. This wasn't the planned outcome so most likely the actual strength of the explosion was weakened considerably (Literally fuckall proof Brood knew this would happen, and there were an insane degree of debris that flew out.) So likely what Carol tanks is likely a fraction of whatever the "half a planet" explosion was originally gonna be.
And to top it all off, she gets knocked out cold. Surviving in comics is just useless for scaling, because the way most writers write these characters: they survive shit above their weight class all the time. They have to be up and fighting.
That all good to move on?
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The crystal is very clearly stated to react different to diferent types of energy, that's not contradiction because we were never told what energy was used before, on the other 2 occasions they were clearly stated as "implosions" not explosions and you have a problem with it forming a portal previously not this one for starters the carvorite crystal was based on some novel which kind of had an adaptation in Marvel comics (Marvel Classics Comics Series Featuring The First Men in the Moon #1 (1978) where Carvorite was used as an anti gravity device which Ms. Marvel mentions on this very issue when she states it can be used to create an anti gravity device.
And while those statements might not be exacly equivalent by our standards cuz we get numbers through calculations, all of the statements support destruction of a huge part of the planet which would be tier 5 and the writer doesn't have specific information on calculation numbers the multiple descriptions directly stating planet wide destruction is much more consistent that most feats accepted in this wiki
Multiple times is mentioned a single crystal was going to cause the destruction like here (Using "A carvorite crystal" and "The carvorite"), again used here in the singular, here specifically states "by detonating one of the carvorite crystals stored at..." and if that still doesn't make you reconsider it was specifically stated here that Cru can channel enough energy to "wipe out the planet" which would make Cru planet level anyways. Also logically it doesn't make any sense to consider it would need all of them because Cru's arm weapon only has space for a single one which Cru was channeling his blasts through which obviously took the most energy out of any of the others which were simply there when he entered causing them to explode.
It was clearly shown Cru getting vaporized while Carol was simply pushed away by the explosion by the way it was actually stated that Carol was severily weakened with her stating she was about to pass out before the explosion after the explosion which pushed her away back into earth, she fell all the way to the surface and was still conscious still speaking before she passed out later she is shown only having an arm injured which has per stated happened before the explosion. Nothing suggest that the explosion was the reason she even passed out to begin with and nowhere should this be considered a kind of limit. And you are acting as if tier 5 is too far away from her weight class which clearly isn't the case.
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Calculating the GBE of the red giant star, calculating the 2% of the energy that hit's the Earth's surface area, then using ISL to get Iron Man's durability.
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Glorian (Marvel Comics)
Born as Thomas Guideon, after getting cancer from high exposure to the radiation wave of a nuclear detonation, the Shaper of Worlds saved him due to his psionic potential and turned him into his golden apprentice. Under his tutelage, he learned how to reorganize reality, becoming Glorian, the...
vsbattles.fandom.com
Wanted to bring this up here after mentioning it on Discord. His tiering justifications both scale him to Grey Hulk and list statements where he's capable of reshaping whole worlds (keep in mind his whole relevance is being the apprentice of the sentient cosmic cube, Shaper of Worlds). His reality warping is done through manipulation of tachyons, which he most frequently manifests offensively through rainbow bridges, which Grey Hulk can destroy. Is this valid for 5-B?
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Gray Hulk scaling is a bit iffy since he is "Varies," so unless other characters scale to Glorian I don't know if we can use itGlorian (Marvel Comics)
Born as Thomas Guideon, after getting cancer from high exposure to the radiation wave of a nuclear detonation, the Shaper of Worlds saved him due to his psionic potential and turned him into his golden apprentice. Under his tutelage, he learned how to reorganize reality, becoming Glorian, the...
Wanted to bring this up here after mentioning it on Discord. His tiering justifications both scale him to Grey Hulk and list statements where he's capable of reshaping whole worlds (keep in mind his whole relevance is being the apprentice of the sentient cosmic cube, Shaper of Worlds). His reality warping is done through manipulation of tachyons, which he most frequently manifests offensively through rainbow bridges, which Grey Hulk can destroy. Is this valid for 5-B?
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What comic are those statements from?Glorian (Marvel Comics)
Born as Thomas Guideon, after getting cancer from high exposure to the radiation wave of a nuclear detonation, the Shaper of Worlds saved him due to his psionic potential and turned him into his golden apprentice. Under his tutelage, he learned how to reorganize reality, becoming Glorian, the...
Wanted to bring this up here after mentioning it on Discord. His tiering justifications both scale him to Grey Hulk and list statements where he's capable of reshaping whole worlds (keep in mind his whole relevance is being the apprentice of the sentient cosmic cube, Shaper of Worlds). His reality warping is done through manipulation of tachyons, which he most frequently manifests offensively through rainbow bridges, which Grey Hulk can destroy. Is this valid for 5-B?
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-Generation X (Vol. 1) #28
-Annihilation: Ronan (Vol. 1) #3-4
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Thanks, it's good to have.
The only way I would imagine anyone besides Grey Hulk scaling to it is if we take Doom's statement (linked on Grey Hulk's profile) that he didn't think Grey Hulk's anger would allow him to match Ben Grimm's strength.
Then again, that was back in the 80s, and Grey Hulk's been able to fight Super Skrull in the timeframe between back then and these later comics. So I dunno, maybe he's gotten stronger?
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That statement sounds pretty good for scaling everyone to Gray Hulk imo, we should at least look into it
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Rechecked the scan, Doom states that Grey Hulk can't get strong enough quickly enough. So Grey Hulk can still theoretically surpass Thing's strength it just can't occur quickly enough for him to win a fight with him.
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I told on Discord, but I think Glorian is jank scaling. His reality warping doesn't seem equal to his physicals imo.Glorian (Marvel Comics)
Born as Thomas Guideon, after getting cancer from high exposure to the radiation wave of a nuclear detonation, the Shaper of Worlds saved him due to his psionic potential and turned him into his golden apprentice. Under his tutelage, he learned how to reorganize reality, becoming Glorian, the...
Wanted to bring this up here after mentioning it on Discord. His tiering justifications both scale him to Grey Hulk and list statements where he's capable of reshaping whole worlds (keep in mind his whole relevance is being the apprentice of the sentient cosmic cube, Shaper of Worlds). His reality warping is done through manipulation of tachyons, which he most frequently manifests offensively through rainbow bridges, which Grey Hulk can destroy. Is this valid for 5-B?
I think it's just contradicted elsewhere yeah
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That is correct as far as I am aware, yes. Glorian is not very strong physically.
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- Thread starter
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- Nova destroys an Empire State Building-sized asteroid - I dunno, maybe Low 7-B
- Firebrand's explosion - Low 7-B+
- Mindless Ones can damage ship that can withstand 200 Megaton meteor impacts - 7-A
- Mandarin causes an earthquake - High 6-C
- Colossus creates a large crater - Low 7-B
- Doom survives the moon exploding - 6-B
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That's why I brought up a feat here for Hulk being relative to his tachyon projection, specifically to account for a possible distinction between his physicals and his powers. And what physical anti-feats are you alluding to? There's him getting beaten to death by Hulk, but that's not super relevant since the premise is that they have feats above and below each other, hence they're relative with small leeway (plus Glorian survived that beating anyways). There was also when he got crushed by a seemingly normal human named Nick Cloot, but he was revealed pretty soon to be the Hell-lord Satannish in disguise. Aside from that, I can't immediately think of any significant anti-feats.
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Don't forget, we scale Iron Man Model 70 to 7-B based on this, I'm pretty most characters affected would upscale him.
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That calc needs evaluating.
I'm pretty sure ThatMoron2 has made a lot of useful calcs and recalcs that would help this thread, they just haven't been evaluated yet.
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You can ask for help here and mention that I consider this a prioritised issue:
Calculation Evaluations (New forum)
This thread is intended for users to link to new blog post calculations, to relay them to the community, and have them evaluated by the calculation group, without contacting the members individually. To evaluate important off-site calculations, preferably copy them to blog posts in this wiki...
@That_moron2
Can you link to them here please?
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Would it be priority 1 or 2?
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Some had concerns with this one, being a "peak feat".
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Hulk and abomination shook mountains America Chavez can throw tanks to the moon Thing hurt a guy that withstood human torch’s supernova flames and was going to destroy the planet, and thing withstood a thingy that can push through a planet Doom withstood an explosion that destroyed latveria Jean grey threw a satellite into orbit and moved an island Magneto has withstood nuclear explosions multiple times Nova flew into the moon and withstood lasers that damaged a planetIron man scales to aero also iron man upscales from his small city level+ armors and Doom is stronger than ghost rider and I don’t have scans but I’m pretty sure some omega level mutants scale to storm, is all of this useful
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I found this ancient blog transferring old Fanverse calcs to the wiki, it was never evaluated (I'll fix that), are any of these feats useful for this thread?
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The moonstone one is usable for the upper mid tiers but that calc is 9-C, I have no idea who scales to terminus but his calc is 6-C, volcana’s is usable and is 6-B, all the other calcs are all either speed or don’t scale to upper mid tiers
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Does anyone scale to Thanos' Sanctuary Ark?
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I doubt it since it was effortlessly beating Firelord, and even if it’s usually close to upper mid tier then herald tier then it tanking firelord’s attack would be an outlier so that calc would be irrelevant
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How about Monica's Leviathan feat?
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