Chainsaw Man: Speed CRT + More

[Saqphire]

Disagree with Fakesaw Man's scaling due to LoK mentioning the possibility of the feat being an aim dodge. Agree with the rest

 

[VoidGoji]

I agree with everything besides scaling Yoru's bang to "only a bit more than 8% stronger" than Makima's. Yoru boosts her weapons considerably with her guilt, so it would be higher to an unknown degree

 

[Breadbear83]

I agree with everything besides scaling Yoru's bang to "only a bit more than 8% stronger" than Makima's. Yoru boosts her weapons considerably with her guilt

the exact increase is unknown so its lowballed as simply faster than makimas bangs (Mach 4603.11) maybe it can be ´´at least Massively hypersonic+, likely higher´´

that would also mean the same for anyone scaling to the bang speed, saying ´´likely higher´´

 

[Mbpoops]

Agree with the op tbh

 

[GunshyFever]

Disagree with Fakesaw Man's scaling due to LoK mentioning the possibility of the feat being an aim dodge. Agree with the rest

It is not a singular feat. Fake Chainsaw Man deals with the attack three different times. But in that case, I will just address the aim dodge argument as well.

The second dodge consists of Yoru and Denji creating a false scenario where they are about to fight, taking Fake Chainsaw Man off guard. Then suddenly Yoru points toward him and fires Bang. We know this is not aim dodge because in the very next panel Fake Chainsaw Man rises with the rubble, meaning he had to have jumped moments after the shot had already been fired.

 

[Saqphire]

It is not a singular feat. Fake Chainsaw Man deals with the attack three different times. But in that case, I will just address the aim dodge argument as well.

The second dodge consists of Yoru and Denji creating a false scenario where they are about to fight, taking Fake Chainsaw Man off guard. Then suddenly Yoru points toward him and fires Bang. We know this is not aim dodge because in the very next panel Fake Chainsaw Man rises with the rubble, meaning he had to have jumped moments after the shot had already been fired.

Oh okay, yeah the scaling makes sense then

 

[Pearly0nsams]

Gunshy adressed everything pretty well. I think people don't wanna scale Faker to bang because it's lowk lame but it is what it is. I agree with speed scaling.

 

[GunshyFever]

Some information came up and I would like to exclude Aki, Himeno, initial Denji, as I believe they are powercliffed beyond the values here. It is best that their speed scaling be discussed in a different CRT with better calcs fitting for them. I will be placing them at the rock bottom tier, and they will possess average human speeds until the time to change their speed arrives.

 

[Anonymous_Learner]

agree

 

[Breadbear83]

"super chainsawmans motorcycle" on the speed scaling is within the mid tiers (Mach 3), as it was outrunning and used to go faster by characters of that tier

But so wouldn't the nuclear weapons yoru using that bike again be considered, at least on her profile "higher travell speed with chainsaw man motorbike" she used it to reach denjiman instead of running

I believe spear man hybrid could scale higher cuz the 3 times he fought with Pochita and denji (first Part 1 Pochita, then weakened Pochita, the post fear boost denji) in all of them he could pierce them with his spears, first time was throwing a spear at Pochita from the distance, then it was he piercing them with a spear from behind

Maybe his combat speed can stay as mid tier but his spear throwing speed could be higher, idk if 20% gun devil or katana man sword draw dash speed, he's still definitively slower than barem and Quanxi, that's why not that much higher

 

[Breadbear83]

Btw the tiering names are wrong, it goes as: mid tier/mid high tier/ high mid

It should go as: low mid tier/ mid tier/ high mid tier, this is because "mid high" refers to the middle of HIGH tiers, while "high mid" refers to peak mid tier, and clearly if you have 3 mid tiers in the middle of low and high tier, the lower mid tier must have "low" in it

Besides that, where should we put other unknown speed characters? Mainly from part 2, lil'd, the real fami, fumiko, that guy that was the boss of katana man, nail fiend and quanxi, and others like mantis devil

Mantis devil could hit devil power, but also got crushed by revived Yuko, a High tier Feat and a Low tier antifeat

At the very least, other horsemen could be bottom tiers by scaling to pre fear boost Yoru, as she explicitly stated to have gotten weaker after her fight with pochita in hell, the others horsemen not being implied to have gotten weaker (besides nayuta now being a child, as a newborn horsemen, technically becoming weaker than a more mature one) plus lil'd was about to be hit by nail fiend but didn't because Asa pushed her away (nail fiend was the one who did the low tiers feat)

The real fami, you may defend her and point out how she was only humiliated by high tiers (fake chainsawman and falling devil) and never by mid tiers, therefore could be at most high mid tier because there's a over 50x speed gap between high mid to high tier, nonetheless, the bandaid kid who saw fami fight fake chainsawman for a moment, wasn't impressed by her speed a lot cuz he still believed she was still "a cringey girl" her speeds being more of normal devil hunters, so she may be a low tier, low mid tier at most

Nayuta got to pull her chains on human barem, but moments earlier he just got shot by hundreds of bullets so he wasn't at his best moment to dodge anything, and fumiko dodging her chains

Yoshida said that fumiko would be Denjis bodyguard from now on, that would be like baseline superhuman at most to defend him, but also she could dodge a hit from whip devil that hit others devil hunters, she could also initially dodge the chains of nayuta (thought also fumiko heard about nayuta being a horseman a moment earlier, so she could have been aware of her chains attack) at least superhuman, possibly Low tier, whip is a low mid tier but i don't think fumiko is comparable to her as she only dodged casual hit that aimed at multiple devil hunters and not just her

That guy with the eye patch, it's weird that he just teleported to the floor above everyone when katana man tried to hit him by slashing behind, if that still counted as dodging, then as it was a casual katana man, that's a low mid feat

 

[Mr.Antboi155]

would Denjiman be a key on Denji's profile or Pochitas? or would it not be a Key at all?

 

[Breadbear83]

would Denjiman be a key on Denji's profile or Pochitas? or would it not be a Key at all?

He has more of the mind of denji, Yoru herself referring to him as denji rather than chainsawman or denjiman

Regardless, as denji states, denjiman would have the same stats as part 2 pochita, therefore id give Denji it as if we put it in pochitas profile it would be a key with the same stats

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

I'm too old for ts man

 

[GunshyFever]

Me too man, me too.

 

[Bruh]

I'm too old for ts man

Me too man, me too.

"What if you can change that ?"

 

[GunshyFever]

Bump

 

[The_Renegade_Slugger]

Wait maybe the reading comprehension devil has me in its grasp, but am I reading this correctly that we're downgrading pre-assault Aki and initial Denji to average human?

 

[GunshyFever]

Shortly, their speed will be revised after this CRT passes.

 

[OhMrKnight]

I disagree with Aki and Himeno being only Average Human, mainly because of this calculation: https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/U...nsaw_Man:_Dodging_Bullets#Aki_Dodges_a_Bullet

Other than that, I agree.

 

[Breadbear83]

I disagree with Aki and Himeno being rated as only Average Human in speed, mainly because of this calculation: https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/U...nsaw_Man:_Dodging_Bullets#Aki_Dodges_a_Bullet

Other than that, I agree.

Also kobenis being mid tier (chainscaling from 20% gun devil travell speed), while aki could just kick the knife she was gonna use to attack denji, while himeno also hit kobeni in the gut (all in chapter 17) shows that himeno and aki aren't that massively slower than kobeni (at least not hundreds of times), I don't think that neccesarily means that aki and himeno could dodge snake devil like kobeni did but they should be at least subsonic, there are a few subsonic feats that they can scale to (like the one you gave) and I for example made one calc of a feat made by some fodder devil hunter of the devil hunter clubs that also got to subsonic+ (Mach 0.66) as it's done by a more inexperienced devil hunter, any special division 4 member could scale to it: https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/U...w_Man)_A_Devil_Hunter_dodges_transformed_Yuko

 

[The_Renegade_Slugger]

Shortly, their speed will be revised after this CRT passes.

Okay, as long as that's not the final plan

 

[GunshyFever]

Snip

All the feats that you have just listed was mentioning a paranoid Kobeni not capable of operating at the level she did during the snake devil fight due to her paranoia.

 

[ElajRuengies]

Katana Man having separate Part 1 and Part 2 keys is unnecessary. There is no meaningful justification given for a distinct gap in his stats that would warrant separate keys, and his portrayal does not support a major increase that would require a split.

Part 1 Katana Man explicitly can't cut through PS Uniforms.

Part 2 Katana Man is implied to have killed Pseudo Chainsaw Men, which can cut through PS Uniforms, as well as walls in the Devil Detention Facility containing Pseudo Chainsaw Men.

It's as simple as that.

 

[GunshyFever]

I forgot abt that

 

[GunshyFever]

Everything that your discussing was already brought up in the AP crt.

 

[Sammy818]

Good shit, agree with all except for American spear speed, undecided on makima bang speed scaling and honestly think we should use the new Pochita return speed instead, i will say tho the gun devil speed is very very weird

 

[Sammy818]

Good shit, agree with all except for American spear speed, undecided on makima bang speed scaling and honestly think we should use the new Pochita return speed instead, i will say tho the gun devil speed is very very weird

Also to explain why I’m iffy on the American spear, i Don’t like the current method used to find its speed, it relies on “mesosphere” but the curvature of the earth that we see is not accurate to what would be mesosphere height. Also Pochita already has a sense buff(meaning we don’t know how long he had to dodge) so I don’t know why denji would equal its max speed

 

[GunshyFever]

I cannot mention that you would rather use the Pochita throwing his heart feat, which is a supporting feat for Part 1 Pochita, to scale characters who are blitz tiers below him. That does not make any sense.

So I will just mention that you do not agree with the American Spear scaling.

 

[GunshyFever]

Snip

There was already a CGD about the feat, which is where the majority accepted the mesosphere end and the accurate end. I will not bother clogging this thread to explain it when it was already discussed. I also have no idea what you mean by Pochita having a "sense buff", but the spear homes in on its target, which means Denji is forced to wait until the spear gets close before it becomes applicable to dodge. That blatantly puts him above the spear speed, along with the fact that he dodges it multiple times.

 

[GunshyFever]

Could we get some staff here please? This verse needs more clean up done than this speed CRT.

 

[Sammy818]

There was already a CGD about the feat, which is where the majority accepted the mesosphere end and the accurate end. I will not bother clogging this thread to explain it when it was already discussed. I also have no idea what you mean by Pochita having a "sense buff", but the spear homes in on its target, which means Denji is forced to wait until the spear gets close before it becomes applicable to dodge. That blatantly puts him above the spear speed, along with the fact that he dodges it multiple times.

last post, he’s agreed to have “enhanced senses as he could hear a whisper from miles away” as well as sense the Yoru bang from far away(and sense the aging devil on another side of Japan), meaning denji likely sensed the spear from very very far away giving him far more time to dodge, essentially meaning he’d dowscale from it, not scale to it, also wasn’t it agreed it targets than launches at him? Meaning it doesn’t matter it’s homing after it’s already launched

 

[GunshyFever]

Please read.

There was already a CGD about the feat, which is where the majority accepted the mesosphere end and the accurate end. I will not bother clogging this thread to explain it when it was already discussed. I also have no idea what you mean by Pochita having a "sense buff", but the spear homes in on its target, which means Denji is forced to wait until the spear gets close before it becomes applicable to dodge. That blatantly puts him above the spear speed, along with the fact that he dodges it multiple times.

 

[GunshyFever]

Bump

 

[Arkenis]

If Makima and Yoru have invisible bullet can GD have that too

 

[GunshyFever]

Likely, his bullets are never shown to be visible but rather his flesh (more evidently shown with the Gun Fiend). I don't see a problem with it. This isn't the CRT for that though.

Edit: Nvm, it honestly might be exclusive to Makima and Yoru.

 

[Arkenis]

• Denji-Man (At least, Dodges the spear several times without much struggle or difficulty)
• Part 2 Pochita (At least, Denji-Man is simply Pochita's body with Denji in control so Pochita would obviously scale to his own body)
• Primal Fears (At least, via Fear Scaling Aging is comparable to Pochita)

I disagree. From the thread about the spear and your calc, it was made clear we took it's speed as having an accelerating factor. Since that's true there's no reason Denji dodging it from a couple meters = its acceleration from the moon. Denji also says he almost got speared, he could be LS or Rel+ and still dodge. Also he got hit after and his other dodge seem pretty narrow.

 

[VoidGoji]

Wasn't he hit just because he jumped in a straight line and didn't try to dodge again

 

[Arkenis]

Yeah but that still shows his speed isn't fast as it. He didn't try dodging again because he already got hit. But still, the spear's clearly shown to be too fast for him he can only dodge slightly

 

[GunshyFever]

Snip

I feel like a broken record at this point, because this is the second time someone has brought this feat up and interpreted it inaccurately.

First, the spear was calculated under constant acceleration from rest, which means its highest velocity is achieved at the end of its path and not at the beginning. There is no evidence that it decelerates before reaching Denji. So when Denji interacts with it at close range, he is interacting with its peak velocity. You cannot just assume it slows down near him because nothing in the scene suggests that.

Second, and for what feels like the 50th time, this is a homing spear.

The spear actively corrects its trajectory to follow him. That means he cannot just preemptively sidestep it from a distance. He has to wait until it gets extremely close before movement becomes meaningful, because the spear will simply adjust and follow him otherwise. Hence the "almost got speared".

In the initial feat, he dodges it despite it traveling from the moon. Then later he continues to maneuver around it effortlessly.

I make mention of this just a little above your message.

but the spear homes in on its target, which means Denji is forced to wait until the spear gets close before it becomes applicable to dodge. That blatantly puts him above the spear speed, along with the fact that he dodges it multiple times.

We are clogging the thread speaking on the same points with just different people every time.