Not-so-big revision

[TheOrangeGuy09]

This CRT just became 1v1 debate lmao

 

[Polastournecis]

This CRT just became 1v1 debate lmao

I love debates btw

 

[Mythic381]

With Rage Power, you mean

Rage power is the literal way people transform.

Having leaned back but still took the full swing (the visual carried this) say much about him

It doesn't. The visual is literally just showing how Adam's axe slash went like. It doesn't mean it literally made a hole through his body.

I would say that harming Adam makes him Morningstars' level at full power

I only said Morningstars level since he fought generally on par with Adam, with the latter only able to take him out with a charged attack

You're relying on the assumption that Adam is on level with the Morningstars, which is wrong when Lucifer completely obliterated him while laughing and Charlie when going at full power fully tanked an attack from him being enraged. He doesn't scale to their full power and isn't close.

(I have talked about this all the time so pls don't make me repeat)

Having leaned back but still took the full swing (the visual carried this) say much about him.

You're literally the one who repeated the point twice for no ******* reason despite me not even replying.

Electrified tentacles could harm Adam with little effort without angelic weaponry, and they are not even Alastor's full power

Barely harm him. All they did was make him stroke his chin, which isn't that impressive of a feat at all.

 

[Polastournecis]

Rage power is the literal way people transform.

No, i mean Full Demon Charlie got severely injured and later got one-shotted by Adam's casual fisticuffs, before Rage Power transformation

It doesn't. The visual is literally just showing how Adam's axe slash went like. It doesn't mean it literally made a hole through his body.

The width of the swing: The vector strikes in animation are illustrated as trails of light, the wider the slash, the more powerfully/deeply and precisely the attack hits. Adam slash is a wide cresent-shaped trail prolonging through multiple frames, showing it precisely hit Alastor and was meant to mutilate him, compared to glancing attacks such as Velvette's

You're relying on the assumption that Adam is on level with the Morningstars, which is wrong when Lucifer completely obliterated him while laughing and Charlie when going at full power fully tanked an attack from him being enraged. He doesn't scale to their full power and isn't close.

Being on someone level doesn't mean scaling to their full power

He still overpowered pre-enraged Full Demon Charlie btw

Barely harm him. All they did was make him stroke his chin, which isn't that impressive of a feat at all.

More damage than Horse Lucifer's double kick
It knocked him down and visibly stunned him for a while

The difference came from Adam has an angelic axe, and that could even harm and kill Dickmaster himself let alone a demon like Alastor

 

[Mythic381]

No, i mean Full Demon Charlie got severely injured and later got one-shotted by Adam's casual fisticuffs, before Rage Power transformation

with Rage Power (By fully transforming her arm, she was able to clash with Adam, who previously overpowered her)

Okay? My whole point is that Full power Charlie is still stronger than Adam via that final transformation.

Being on someone level doesn't mean scaling to their full power

When I say "on level" I'm not literally referring to equal power, I'm referring to relative power. Notice how Charlie completely tanked the attack with Adam being fully enraged at the time.

He still overpowered pre-enraged Full Demon Charlie btw

Yes, because Charlie sucks at combat.

More damage than Horse Lucifer's double kick

You're acting as if it it was some full force attack? He literally did not take Adam seriously.

The difference came from Adam has an angelic axe, and that could even harm and kill Dickmaster himself let alone a demon like Alastor

Okay? Not really refuting any of the points though.

 

[Polastournecis]

Okay? My whole point is that Full power Charlie is still stronger than Adam via that final transformation.

Ok?

When I say "on level" I'm not literally referring to equal power, I'm referring to relative power. Notice how Charlie completely tanked the attack with Adam being fully enraged at the time.

Yes, because Charlie sucks at combat.

Still, not-that-good durability

All i am saying is base Alastor is above pre-enraged Full Demon Charlie dura wise

You're acting as if it it was some full force attack? He literally did not take Adam seriously.

No, i don't think so

Just a comparison cuz it is on Adam's profile anyway
(Also, that was not Alastor's full force either since he's just playing around with Adam all the time while the latter getting pissy)

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

Full power Charlie is still stronger than him via that final transformation

 

[Polastournecis]

No offensive
But this is the first thing came to my mind when he said that

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

No offensive
But this is the first thing came to my mind when he said that

Masha & Bear mentioned in English media

 

[KirbyFan03]

Wasn't Alastor weakened when he got slashed? His main source of power was one shot and he nearly died. Adam one shot his staff and then Alastor respectively

 

[Polastournecis]

Wasn't Alastor weakened when he got slashed? His main source of power was one shot and he nearly died. Adam one shot his staff and then Alastor respectively

Being weakened isn't the same as being depowered

The Vees only capable of harming Alastor via pressuring his wound
Even with a scar, he tanked consecutive ramming attacks from Vox
Only Velvette and 100% Vox at full power can actually bruise him cuz the strength behind their powers depend on ratings/votes, while Valentino has a pistol that can kill even Overlords

 

[KirbyFan03]

Being weakened isn't the same as being depowered

The Vees only capable of harming Alastor via pressuring his wound
Even with a scar, he tanked consecutive ramming attacks from Vox
Only Velvette and 100% Vox at full power can actually bruise him cuz their power depends on ratings

I have Adam>Charlie>Alastor>Full Power Vox (100% ratings)

 

[Polastournecis]

I have Adam>Charlie>Alastor>Full Power Vox (100% ratings)

Idk about Full Demon Charlie cuz she got knocked down by a casual punch from Adam
But Enraged Full Demon Charlie? Yes

 

[KirbyFan03]

Idk about Full Demon Charlie cuz she got knocked down by a casual punch from Adam
But Enraged Full Demon Charlie? Yes

disagree due to the implication of her lasting longer against Adam

 

[Polastournecis]

disagree due to the implication of her lasting longer against Adam

The difference came from Adam has an angelic axe, and that could even harm and kill Dickmaster himself let alone a demon like Alastor

 

[Anonymous_Learner]

Masha & Bear mentioned in English media

You know, I actually used to watch that as a kid (it had an english dub I believe)

 

[Polastournecis]

Bump

 

[Mythic381]

All i am saying is base Alastor is above pre-enraged Full Demon Charlie dura wise

You have quite literally no basis for that. Alastor's has no durability feats against Adam.

We accept that Adam's holy light scales to his punches, and Charlie got attacked twice. His first attack knocked her away and electrocuted, yet she stood up, ran all the way to him and stabbed him before he can notice. The second punch just gave him a chance to choke her. Charlie has basis to scale to Adam in a better way, while Alastor insanely downscales from being able to slightly hurt him by an uppercut.

(Also, that was not Alastor's full force either since he's just playing around with Adam all the time while the latter getting pissy)

It wasn't even a normal attack, it was his tentacles embedded with electricity.

 

[Polastournecis]

You have quite literally no basis for that. Alastor's has no durability feats against Adam.

We accept that Adam's holy light scales to his punches, and Charlie got attacked twice. His first attack knocked her away and electrocuted, yet she stood up, ran all the way to him and stabbed him before he can notice. The second punch just gave him a chance to choke her. Charlie has basis to scale to Adam in a better way, while Alastor insanely downscales from being able to slightly hurt him by an uppercut.

Spoke too soon~

Alastor took a holy light slash from Adam and only got a little scratch on his coat
Notice how the attack left two craters on the solid ground beside the busted up staff

Remind that Adam only able to take out Alastor with his angelic axe, and that said weapon is a higher end for Adam's AP and will harm even Lucifer

It wasn't even a normal attack, it was his tentacles embedded with electricity.

You don't say?

 

[Mythic381]

Alastor took a holy light slash from Adam and only get a little scratch on his coat

Doesn't seem to me like any of the attack managed to reach him.

Notice how the attack left two craters on the solid ground beside the busted up staff

Notice how the craters were not where Alastor was blocking or standing? The attack moved horizontally, it wasn't just going to get blocked and then stop.

Remind that Adam only able to take out Alastor with his angelic axe, and that said weapon is a higher end for Adam's AP and will harm even Lucifer

No? He wasn't "only able to take out Alastor with his angelic axe" He already was using his axe during the fight, why would he suddenly just throw his axe away and punch Alastor?

You don't say?

Your link redirects to "Powers and Abilities:" sections. I'm assuming you meant to link this:

Electricity (Was unharmed by Alastor's tentacles and minions which have electrical properties that is supported by the noise they make.

Which to reply to that, I hope you realize the wiki doesn't even accept Alastor as having hurt Adam, which literally renders your argument useless.

 

[Anonymous_Learner]

mind you, Adam couldn't blitz Al until after his staff was broke with it being accepted on wiki that they were relative in speed while Demon form Charlie was getting outpaced, slapped around, and later one punched by him after getting a bit more serious and straight up her attempt to fight him were cute

 

[Mythic381]

mind you, Adam couldn't blitz Al until after his staff was broke with it being accepted on wiki that they were relative in speed while Demon form Charlie was getting outpaced, slapped around, and later one punched by him after getting a bit more serious and straight up her attempt to fight him were cute

I'm talking about FP Charlie.

 

[Anonymous_Learner]

I'm talking about FP Charlie.

You have quite literally no basis for that. Alastor's has no durability feats against Adam.

We accept that Adam's holy light scales to his punches, and Charlie got attacked twice. His first attack knocked her away and electrocuted, yet she stood up, ran all the way to him and stabbed him before he can notice. The second punch just gave him a chance to choke her. Charlie has basis to scale to Adam in a better way, while Alastor insanely downscales from being able to slightly hurt him by an uppercut.

This is all about Pre enraged Charlie, not FP charlie

 

[Polastournecis]

Doesn't seem to me like any of the attack managed to reach him.

I hope you realize it came with a flashbang before that

The glare (not saying the sparkling patterns and shockwave) actually came from his staff being destroyed

Notice how the craters were not where Alastor was blocking or standing? The attack moved horizontally, it wasn't just going to get blocked and then stop.

Still, Alastor withstood the impact without even flinch, shown by the shockwave doing nothing to him and either way, if it was just the cane that blocked it, then it makes no sense cuz it broke in half to a swift slash while the holy light pulverized the surrounding

No? He wasn't "only able to take out Alastor with his angelic axe" He already was using his axe during the fight, why would he suddenly just throw his axe away and punch Alastor?

Ok, my bad for misusing of words

I mean Adam took out Adam using an angelic axe, which is a higher end

Your link redirects to "Powers and Abilities:" sections. I'm assuming you meant to link this:

Nevermind, it went somewhere...

 

[Mythic381]

This is all about Pre enraged Charlie, not FP charlie

My original point was all about FP Charlie, I don't really remember why that was even mentioned.

Anyways, like I said, Alastor doesn't even have any valid durability feats via Adam. Charlie has her withstanding an attack from one of his punches. You can't truly argue Alastor > Charlie if you want to go by that logic.

mind you, Adam couldn't blitz Al until after his staff was broke with it being accepted on wiki that they were relative in speed while Demon form Charlie was getting outpaced, slapped around, and later one punched by him after getting a bit more serious and straight up her attempt to fight him were cute

None of this even concerns where either scale durability-wise by the way.

I hope you realize it came with a flashbang before that

The glare (not saying the sparkling patterns and shockwave) actually came from his staff being destroyed

We're not going to address arguments by using dark images showcasing how the light beam moved. This is an image explicitly showing that the light beam didn't reach Alastor's body in any way.

Still, Alastor withstood the impact without even flinch, shown by the shockwave doing nothing to him and either way, if it was just the cane that blocked it, then it makes no sense cuz it broke in half to a swift slash while the holy light pulverized the surrounding

This isn't Adam's light beam that would work like a kamehameha, it's a shockwave that instantly disappeared after it split his cane. We can go by the same logic and ask ourselves why it didn't just go through the building instead of disappearing after it caused the craters.

I mean Adam took out Adam using an angelic axe, which is a higher end

What's that supposed to prove? He was already using the axe, he wouldn't throw it away.

 

[Polastournecis]

Ok, that was fast

My original point was all about FP Charlie, I don't really remember why that was even mentioned.

Bro doing nothing but resetting the point

Anyways, like I said, Alastor doesn't even have any valid durability feats via Adam. Charlie has her withstanding an attack from one of his punches. You can't truly argue Alastor > Charlie if you want to go by that logic.

I already made the argument that Alastor withstood Adam's axe swing. Won't repeat that

None of this even concerns where either scale durability-wise by the way.

Fym casual punches are stronger than an axe swing

We're not going to address arguments by using dark images showcasing how the light beam moved. This is an image explicitly showing that the light beam didn't reach Alastor's body in any way.

This isn't Adam's light beam that would work like a kamehameha, it's a shockwave that instantly disappeared after it split his cane.
We can go by the same logic and ask ourselves why it didn't just go through the building instead of disappearing after it caused the craters.

Except that this argument falls apart as you realize that the holy light slash reached Alastor arms (the hole on his coat) yet it didn't even split them

You already admitted that holy light destroys everything on the way before disappearing, but his arms didn't and not to mention it was on the same straight line with the craters

What's that supposed to prove? He was already using the axe, he wouldn't throw it away.

Again, you missed the angelic weapon point

 

[Mythic381]

Bro doing nothing but resetting the point

So crazy that I'm arguing about the point of the CRT.

I already made the argument that Alastor withstood Adam's axe swing. Won't repeat that

Crazy how the reply wasn't to you. Anonymous_Learner doesn't agree with the durability section, which they said in this CRT.

Fym casual punches are stronger than an axe swing

I was replying to Anonymous_Learner. Look at their message and tell me when did they talk about Adam using his axe.

mind you, Adam couldn't blitz Al until after his staff was broke with it being accepted on wiki that they were relative in speed while Demon form Charlie was getting outpaced, slapped around, and later one punched by him after getting a bit more serious and straight up her attempt to fight him were cute

Sure didn't.

Except that this argument falls apart as you realize that the slash reached Alastor arms (the hole on his coat) yet it didn't even split them

So it somehow managed to slash his coat but nothing else of his clothes? Definitely buying that.

Again, you missed the angelic weapon point

What are you trying to get at? That Alastor is stronger because he used his axe against him but not Charlie? Adam never thought of Charlie being strong anyways. To her she's "Ms butterflies and rainbows" for him to take her seriously in a fight.

 

[Polastournecis]

What are you trying to get at? That Alastor is stronger because he used his axe against him but not Charlie? Adam never thought of Charlie being strong anyways. To her she's "Ms butterflies and rainbows" for him to take her seriously in a fight.

No, i mean that angelic weapon is absolutely broken. Even Niffty's angelic mini dagger seriously injured Adam and Carmilla cables could draw blood from Lucifer, so no reason the axe cannot harm Alastor

Correctly, Adam saw Alastor used a domain expansion, and also the same guy provoked a fight with electrified tentacles so it makes sense to pull out an axe (cuz punching tentacles is not a good idea)

 

[Mythic381]

No, i mean that angelic weapon is absolutely broken. Even Niffty's angelic mini dagger seriously injured Adam and Carmilla cables could draw blood from Lucifer, so no reason the axe cannot harm Alastor

When did I say they can't harm Alastor? If that was the case then we wouldn't even be having this argument.

Correctly, Adam saw Alastor used a domain expansion, and also the same guy provoked a fight with electrified tentacles so it makes sense to pull out an axe (cuz punching tentacles is not a good idea)

The tentacles punched Adam and even restrained him. He didn't get electrocuted both times. Also if we're going by that, since him using his axe is still unrelated to how powerful they are.

 

[Polastournecis]

When did I say they can't harm Alastor? If that was the case then we wouldn't even be having this argument.

Which makes Alastor being relative to him or FP Charlie in durability a thing

That weapon is literally designed to slay virtually any demons/angels and even Lucifer, so getting stomped by that doesn't really say anything about his durability

The tentacles punched Adam and even restrained him. He didn't get electrocuted both times. Also if we're going by that, since him using his axe is still unrelated to how powerful they are.

As you said, he got ragdolled pretty quickly when caught off-guard and not using his axe so it's better with an axe for handling a swarm of that thing

 

[Mythic381]

Which makes Alastor being relative to him or FP Charlie in durability a thing

...What? Where's the correlation in whatever you just said???

That weapon is literally designed to slay virtually any demons/angels and even Lucifer, so getting stomped by that doesn't really say anything about his durability

No? Lucifer cannot be killed by Angelic Weapons first off, Lucifer even said it. Secondly, how is that related to the point? You even proved the point that it doesn't say anything about his durability, meaning you can't quantify their durability based on Charlie withstanding hits from his fist and Alastor barely surviving an axe slash.

As you said, he got ragdolled pretty quickly when caught off-guard and not using his axe so it's better with an axe for handling a swarm of that thing

None of the attacks actually hurt him (except for the uppercut, which isn't accepted in this site again.) He only struggled because Adam is ass at fighting.

 

[Polastournecis]

...What? Where's the correlation in whatever you just said???

Like, if Alastor somehow had higher dura than Adam, then it wouldn't be contradicted cuz angelic weapons can harm physically stronger enemies, like Striker can harm Stolas with blessed dagger though the latter is a higher demon

No? Lucifer cannot be killed by Angelic Weapons first off, Lucifer even said it. Secondly, how is that related to the point? You even proved the point that it doesn't say anything about his durability, meaning you can't quantify their durability based on Charlie withstanding hits from his fist and Alastor barely surviving an axe slash.

You sure?

Angelic weaponry is a different thing cuz it can harm pretty much anyone regardless of any power level, like a gun can hurt to even most athletic humans

None of the attacks actually hurt him (except for the uppercut, which isn't accepted in this site again.) He only struggled because Adam is ass at fighting.

Bro i just mean it's ******* annoying to punch them🫩

 

[Mythic381]

Like, if Alastor somehow had higher dura than Adam, then it wouldn't be contradicted cuz angelic weapons can harm physically stronger enemies, like Striker can harm Stolas with blessed dagger though the latter is a higher demon

That's not how it works. You can't just argue that and ignore the fact it somehow didn't absolutely cut Alastor, yet a dagger stabbed and killed Adam.

You sure?

Ha, why? It's not like there's anything you can do to kill me.https://youtu.be/2pHVjbArt9Q?si=48dWCZ1vlJnr6f2f&t=163

Oh, I'm counting on it.

Just because he looked tired in that scene doesn't mean he was actually going to die. This is a heavy assumption based on someone who's energy was being drained, did you expect him to look fine?

Angelic weaponry is a different thing cuz it can harm pretty much anyone regardless of any power level, like a gun can hurt to even most athletic humans

Irrelevant.

Bro i just mean it's ******* annoying to punch them🫩

Ok, how is that relevant to the argument?

 

[Polastournecis]

That's not how it works. You can't just argue that and ignore the fact it somehow didn't absolutely cut Alastor, yet a dagger stabbed and killed Adam.

Ok, i don't think you get what i'm saying here...

My point is we cannot sure that FP Alastor durability is inferior to Adam cuz Adam ended him with a swing from his angelic axe, which could cause serious injury even if it was the Dickmaster himself
Ok, i just realized i ******* repeated a point here

Just because he looked tired in that scene doesn't mean he was actually going to die. This is a heavy assumption based on someone who's energy was being drained, did you expect him to look fine?

When i say it, I mean angelic steel can potentially be lethal to Lucifer, and it still drew his blood pretty much

Also, it's probably Lucifer doesn't know Vox has angelic steel or Sinners knowing angelic steel can harm angels

 

[DarkLock92]

Since we're talking about Lucifer's wounds, I feel like this is relevant:

 

[DarkLock92]

Also, it's probably Lucifer doesn't know Vox has angelic steel or Sinners knowing angelic steel can harm angels

Vox straight up tells him his cage is made out of angelic steel, and Lucifer saw Adam getting shanked by Niffty's angelic dagger

 

[Polastournecis]

Since we're talking about Lucifer's wounds, I feel like this is relevant:

W daughter (though i get that she just got a little excited)

 

[Polastournecis]

Vox straight up tells him his cage is made out of angelic steel, and Lucifer saw Adam getting shanked by Niffty's angelic dagger

That's why it is a "probably"
I could miss something that i don't know
And i actually ******* did it

 

[Mythic381]

My point is we cannot sure that FP Alastor durability is inferior to Adam cuz Adam ended him with a swing from his angelic axe, which could cause serious injury even if it was the Dickmaster himself

What? It's literally accepted that Alastor's physical stats are weaker than Adam, not even with the axe argument. It wouldn't even make sense if Alastor is somehow stronger in durability than Adam, when he can harm those who can harm him back in fights, yet couldn't harm Adam.

When i say it, I mean angelic steel can potentially be lethal to Lucifer, and it still drew his blood pretty much

It's outright stated by Vivziepop and reinforced by Lucifer himself. Angels have regeneration from it anyways, so this doesn't prove much.

Also, it's probably Lucifer doesn't know Vox has angelic steel or Sinners knowing angelic steel can harm angels

What? Vox literally says:

You like it? It's angelic metal from my new friend, Carmilla Carmine.

 

[Polastournecis]

What? It's literally accepted that Alastor's physical stats are weaker than Adam, not even with the axe argument. It wouldn't even make sense if Alastor is somehow stronger in durability than Adam, when he can harm those who can harm him back in fights, yet couldn't harm Adam.

I hope you know that Alastor was not even serious in that fight, the same with Lucifer for a minute, meanwhile Adam ultilized a charged attack after having enough with Alastor

It's outright stated by Vivziepop and reinforced by Lucifer himself. Angels have regeneration from it anyways, so this doesn't prove much.

What? Vox literally says:

I talked to DarkLord about this
Also

That's why it is a "probably"
I could miss something that i don't know
And i actually ******* did it