MCU Secret Invasion CRT: The Power of the Harvest

[Dinobot1996]

In Assembled: The Making of Secret Invasion, director Ali Selim states that Gravik, needing bigger weapons to be stronger, specifically seeks out the Harvest (and the DNA of Carol Danvers in particular) because it's the biggest weapon he can have:

This should put anyone using the Harvest above anything else that Gravik's forces could plausibly use. The extent of what this could include is debatable, though I believe it should include the HMS Neptune, a Royal Navy submarine infiltrated by Gravik's forces, who nearly launched a missile strike from it during the third episode of Secret Invasion. The HMS Neptune, as a nuclear submarine launched from HMNB Clyde, should have been equipped with Trident SLBM missiles. If we take the director statement at face value, Gravik using the Harvest should be superior to these missiles (At least High 7-C, possibly Low 7-B for the Trident II missiles used in the modern era)

Arguably, this statement could be interpreted to count the War Machine armor, though due to the lack of definitive confirmation on when Rhodey was replaced with the Skrull Raava, this is less clear. The Falcon and the Winter Soldier does have a deleted scene that potentially suggests the switch could have happened shortly before that series, post-Endgame, which would mean we never saw Raava-Rhodey use the armor onscreen. The War Machine armor wasn't brought up in Secret Invasion outside of like, a single line by Raava-Rhodey, though with Skrulls having the means to copy DNA and probe memories, presumably any passwords or biometric security in the armor could have been bypassed. I'll leave this scaling as a 'possibly' option to be debated on.

As Gravik and G'iah don't get the full powers of the Harvest (including Captain Marvel's DNA) until the final episode of the show, this would only scale to them at that point. No anti-feats apply, as nobody gets the opportunity to harm them in their Harvest-empowered forms except each other. Gravik's pre-Harvest transformation powers would not scale. G'iah doesn't use any offensive transformation powers until she gets the Harvest.

I'll leave two different options on how this can be applied:

• Option 1: Gravik's tiering becomes 9-A normally, higher with Transformation, at least High 7-C, possibly Low 7-B to at least High 6-A with the Harvest. G'iah's tiering becomes 9-A normally, at least High 7-C, possibly Low 7-B to at least High 6-A with the Harvest
• Option 2: Gravik's tiering becomes 9-A normally, higher with Transformation, at least High 7-C, possibly Low 7-B with the Harvest. G'iah's tiering becomes 9-A normally, at least High 7-C, possibly Low 7-B with the Harvest

 

[Lacku]

Would splitting Gravik's profile into Pre and Post-Harvest keys not be better? As for either of them fully scaling to Captain Marvel I'm kinda neutral, Ali Selim using "become" when referring to them both using Carol's DNA is making me lean towards agree though.

 

[Dinobot1996]

Splitting it into a key could also work. The High 6-A option would come from the Harvest potentially being a bigger weapon than later War Machine armors.

 

[Lacku]

Splitting it into a key could also work. The High 6-A option would come from the Harvest potentially being a bigger weapon than later War Machine armors.

Ohhh okay if High 6-A is coming solely from the War Machine armours then possibly makes sense since the carpet bomb statement could have easily just been a bluff or the Skrull staying in-character as Rhodey. If Marvel ever addresses when exactly Rhodey was switched out with the Skrull then maybe they'll scale to the full value but until then possibly works the best.

 

[Lacku]

bump

 

[Dinobot1996]

Bump

 

[Hellbeast]

Would splitting Gravik's profile into Pre and Post-Harvest keys not be better? As for either of them fully scaling to Captain Marvel I'm kinda neutral, Ali Selim using "become" when referring to them both using Carol's DNA is making me lean towards agree though.

Yeah if say that works better, maybe with a varies, up to x tier for their transformations for tidiness

 

[Dinobot1996]

Bump

 

[Lacku]

bump

 

[Lacku]

bump

 

[Legion350]

In Assembled: The Making of Secret Invasion, director Ali Selim states that Gravik, needing bigger weapons to be stronger, specifically seeks out the Harvest (and the DNA of Carol Danvers in particular) because it's the biggest weapon he can have:

This should put anyone using the Harvest above anything else that Gravik's forces could plausibly use. The extent of what this could include is debatable, though I believe it should include the HMS Neptune, a Royal Navy submarine infiltrated by Gravik's forces, who nearly launched a missile strike from it during the third episode of Secret Invasion. The HMS Neptune, as a nuclear submarine launched from HMNB Clyde, should have been equipped with Trident SLBM missiles. If we take the director statement at face value, Gravik using the Harvest should be superior to these missiles (At least High 7-C, possibly Low 7-B for the Trident II missiles used in the modern era)

Arguably, this statement could be interpreted to count the War Machine armor, though due to the lack of definitive confirmation on when Rhodey was replaced with the Skrull Raava, this is less clear. The Falcon and the Winter Soldier does have a deleted scene that potentially suggests the switch could have happened shortly before that series, post-Endgame, which would mean we never saw Raava-Rhodey use the armor onscreen. The War Machine armor wasn't brought up in Secret Invasion outside of like, a single line by Raava-Rhodey, though with Skrulls having the means to copy DNA and probe memories, presumably any passwords or biometric security in the armor could have been bypassed. I'll leave this scaling as a 'possibly' option to be debated on.

As Gravik and G'iah don't get the full powers of the Harvest (including Captain Marvel's DNA) until the final episode of the show, this would only scale to them at that point. No anti-feats apply, as nobody gets the opportunity to harm them in their Harvest-empowered forms except each other. Gravik's pre-Harvest transformation powers would not scale. G'iah doesn't use any offensive transformation powers until she gets the Harvest.

I'll leave two different options on how this can be applied:

• Option 1: Gravik's tiering becomes 9-A normally, higher with Transformation, at least High 7-C, possibly Low 7-B to at least High 6-A with the Harvest. G'iah's tiering becomes 9-A normally, at least High 7-C, possibly Low 7-B to at least High 6-A with the Harvest
• Option 2: Gravik's tiering becomes 9-A normally, higher with Transformation, at least High 7-C, possibly Low 7-B with the Harvest. G'iah's tiering becomes 9-A normally, at least High 7-C, possibly Low 7-B with the Harvest

I also agree with the person who said to give him a Pre & Post Harvest Key. As for the revision, what is included in the "normally" part of this? I’m fine with the High 7-C/Low 7-B area of the scaling. I’m ambivalent on High 6-A though.

It would be more convincing if they gave more info on the War Machine stuff, also ambivalent on stuff related to Captain Marvel.

 

[Dinobot1996]

The 'normally' part would represent Gravik when he isn't using transformation powers. I'm not arguing scaling Gravik's Captain Marvel powers directly to Captain Marvel, just that they should scale above the Trident Missiles and possibly above later War Machine armors depending on if that part gets accepted.

If Gravik gets a second key for the Harvest Stuff, it'd probably look something like this:

Small Building level normally (Overpowered normal Skrulls, who are 15 percent stronger than humans such as Hawkeye and Black Widow, and can overpower Nick Fury, as well as hold their own against and take hits from Captain Marvel), higher with Transformation (One-shot Pagon by using Groot's powers) | Varies, at least Large Town level, possibly Small City level+ (The Harvest, including Captain Marvel's DNA, was stated by director Ali Selim to be a bigger weapon than anything else Gravik could have, which should make it superior to the HMS Neptune, a Royal Navy nuclear submarine launched from HMNB Clyde that was infiltrated by Gravik's forces, and should have been armed with Trident II SLBM missiles) to at least Multi-Continent level (Possibly superior to later War Machine armors, which Gravik's forces may have had access to after replacing James Rhodes, though this was never confirmed onscreen)

Also, LS and Speed would need to be restructured accordingly, plus P&A restructuring to clarify which abilities specifically come from the Harvest.

 

[Legion350]

The 'normally' part would represent Gravik when he isn't using transformation powers. I'm not arguing scaling Gravik's Captain Marvel powers directly to Captain Marvel, just that they should scale above the Trident Missiles and possibly above later War Machine armors depending on if that part gets accepted.

If Gravik gets a second key for the Harvest Stuff, it'd probably look something like this:

Small Building level normally (Overpowered normal Skrulls, who are 15 percent stronger than humans such as Hawkeye and Black Widow, and can overpower Nick Fury, as well as hold their own against and take hits from Captain Marvel), higher with Transformation (One-shot Pagon by using Groot's powers) | Varies, at least Large Town level, possibly Small City level+ (The Harvest, including Captain Marvel's DNA, was stated by director Ali Selim to be a bigger weapon than anything else Gravik could have, which should make it superior to the HMS Neptune, a Royal Navy nuclear submarine launched from HMNB Clyde that was infiltrated by Gravik's forces, and should have been armed with Trident II SLBM missiles) to at least Multi-Continent level (Possibly superior to later War Machine armors, which Gravik's forces may have had access to after replacing James Rhodes, though this was never confirmed onscreen)

Also, LS and Speed would need to be restructured accordingly, plus P&A restructuring to clarify which abilities specifically come from the Harvest.

The 9-A stuff should have an At least because he scales above Skrulls who are already stronger than the Peak Human characters. With that being said, I’m onboard with the revision now.

Thanks for clarifying. Also, whose dna did he have access to before getting the Harvest? Since secret invasion was kinda ass it’s been a while from when I first saw it lol.

 

[Dinobot1996]

Gravik was established to have access to four samples before acquiring the Harvest: Groot, Frost Beast, Cull Obsidian, and Extremis. He definitely used Groot and Extremis abilities onscreen, he might have used Cull Obsidian's abilities to throw a punch here, and I don't think he actually uses Frost Beast abilities onscreen before getting the Harvest.

 

[Legion350]

Leaning towards the idea that his base should be 8-C from the Extremis.

 

[Dinobot1996]

The portrayal of Extremis in Secret Invasion is a bit weird, as I'm pretty sure it never gets used offensively by Gravik or G'iah, with only the regeneration aspect being showcased.

 

[Hacigeralt]

I agree with a Post-Harvest key and with at least High 7-C, possibly Low 7-B. The Harvest being treated as Gravik’s “biggest weapon” is enough for a conservative weapon-based scale above the submarine/missile benchmark, without needing full direct Captain Marvel scaling.


I do not agree with High 6-A. That part depends on much more speculative War Machine assumptions, and even the thread’s more favorable replies are openly ambivalent there. The evidence is solid enough for the lower end, but not for the High 6-A extension.

 

[Legion350]

Hopefully we can get some staff in here, to assist with the thread

 

[Lacku]

bump

 

[Isaacbobanka]

I do not agree with High 6-A. That part depends on much more speculative War Machine assumptions, and even the thread’s more favorable replies are openly ambivalent there. The evidence is solid enough for the lower end, but not for the High 6-A extension.

I think it being "possibly" is fine as the actual statement implies Carols DNA>anything else from the avengers including War Machines suit. Also the wording "possibly" can be used here as it fits the defenition "Should be used to list a statistic for a character with some basis, but inconclusive due to the justification being vague or non-definitive"

The biggest weapon you can have is Avenger DNA

I think having possibly for it or option 2 would work.