Naruto Uzumaki vs Son Goku [14-2-0]

[AlternativePrinciple]

Due to two posters from different platforms and the whole Garou/Goku thing, me have looked a bit deeper into the whole Naruto thing. I mostly read/watched the sharingan related parts, so if im missing context, feel free to correct m XD

Sharingan users relies on reading muscle tension, weight shifts, and microscopic twitches to predict an attack, which is what street tier verses operate on, but the Sharingan does seem to have more weaknesses and its layers below actual future sight. While Naruto hasnt done that via pure talent in the sense of not using hax or special abilities (though his weird style and using the environment did help), its beside the point since it doesnt seem to be a pure skill fight, so it will get a pass

I think you are mistaking the Byakugan with the sharingan as the byakugan was stated to have predictive capabilities via analysis of kinetic movements. As far as I know there is no statements regarding what the sharingan uses information wise to predict its opponents next move other than straight up showing a way to dodge.

From the things read here and there, and my limited knowledge, through the whole training from that namekian guy and me think his name was topo? He was specifically trained by deities to perfectly counter fighters who rely on reading physical movements and eyesight. I dont really see how Goku cant deal with Naruto here in pure H2H. At worst Naruto gives him a bit of Trouble?

Also he dragonball fighting system seems to be even more advantaged than the likes of god of highschool. While GoH is based on studying traditional chinese martial arts to create Re Taekwondo, gohan and roshi seem to know every martial art/technique in existence and Kid Goku reached a point where he surpassed them and only lost due being maller. Pretty cool feat for a 12 year old.

Dont really see Kid Goku having any trouble at all, to be honest ;P Its not like Naruto has the prediction skills of Sasaki (ror) vs poseidon XD Naruto also lacks '"future sight" skills like Mori, which is the main reason why Z Goku cant beat him. While Goku is better in the non hax aspects due to better statements, Z Goku lacks actual future sight skills from my understanding (correct me if im wrong)

Anyway... it wasnt good binging the whole thing and need sime sleep. Gooood night

Well as I outlined above we don’t really know what the sharingan uses for its analytical predictions. That aside I want to note that the sharingan is quite broken in its analytical predictions as

• At one time the sharingan is able to predict and dodge a danmaku of different attacks such as small iron balls or kunai. Showing its effectiveness against multiple of targets.
• Second tome it can flawlessly predict and counter any move-sets done by its opponents. So this level it can predict and counter attacks flawlessly which is already a high bar for most verses to overcome.
• Third tome just straight up gives visuals of it’s opponents next move akin to future site.

Nard is able to go head to head with this type of predictive capabilities with just his own skills at a young while the sharingan user has better perception speed.

Fast forward to Shippuden and nard has learned Frog Kuwmita which is a martial arts that flawlessly counters any H2H, so much so that it redirects the energy used in h2h back to its opponents. Moreover in Naruto, skilled Shinobi are able to read the minds of those they come in contact with so while nard is doing H2H he is able to read each other’s minds.

This is before any analytical predictions nard himself gets which just furthers his own skills. He gets to such a level that he can keep up with people that have the sharingan, byakugan, sage mode and can read minds at the same time while his opponents can keep up with his predictive capabilities and flawless counter attacks in h2h.

 

[Gp972]

I think you are mistaking the Byakugan with the sharingan as the byakugan was stated to have predictive capabilities via analysis of kinetic movements. As far as I know there is no statements regarding what the sharingan uses information wise to predict its opponents next move other than straight up showing a way to dodge.

Well as I outlined above we don’t really know what the sharingan uses for its analytical predictions. That aside I want to note that the sharingan is quite broken in its analytical predictions as

• At one time the sharingan is able to predict and dodge a danmaku of different attacks such as small iron balls or kunai. Showing its effectiveness against multiple of targets.
• Second tome it can flawlessly predict and counter any move-sets done by its opponents. So this level it can predict and counter attacks flawlessly which is already a high bar for most verses to overcome.
• Third tome just straight up gives visuals of it’s opponents next move akin to future site.

Nard is able to go head to head with this type of predictive capabilities with just his own skills at a young while the sharingan user has better perception speed.

Fast forward to Shippuden and nard has learned Frog Kuwmita which is a martial arts that flawlessly counters any H2H, so much so that it redirects the energy used in h2h back to its opponents. Moreover in Naruto, skilled Shinobi are able to read the minds of those they come in contact with so while nard is doing H2H he is able to read each other’s minds.

This is before any analytical predictions nard himself gets which just furthers his own skills. He gets to such a level that he can keep up with people that have the sharingan, byakugan, sage mode and can read minds at the same time while his opponents can keep up with his predictive capabilities and flawless counter attacks in h2h.

Goku has
Blessed (Protection; Bardock wished for his two sons to grow up healthy, causing Goku to obtain a protection until he reached adulthood, making things that could be fatal to him, not kill him)
Limited Breaking the Fourth Wall (Broke the manga panel by knocking Yamcha into it.[50] Later, during the 21st Budōkai, he and Krillin interrupted a fight to promote the next volume of the manga[15])
Accelerated Development (Battle, Physical Stats & Abilities; As a Saiyan, Goku grows stronger every time he fights and can become stronger in the midst of combat, vastly increasing in strength whenever he is mortally injured)
Power Mimicry (Replicated the Kamehameha in seconds with just a glance, which took him 50 years to master,[51] he also believed he could use his Kamehameha to fly after seeing Master Roshi do the same,[52] allowing him to develop the technique in various unique ways.[53][54] During the 21st Tenka'ichi Budōkai, Goku replicated the Afterimage Fist Technique after seeing Master Roshi use the technique,[17] and soon after copied the Three-Fold to Many-Fold Afterimage Fist.[55][56][57] During the 22nd Tenka'ichi Budōkai, he even used the Eight Arms Fist technique which he copied from King Chappa during the preliminaries.[58][59] During the 23rd Tenka'ichi Budōkai, Goku replicated Tien Shinhan's Solar Flare technique, making him the first person outside the Tsuru-sen school to use the technique[60])
Analytical Prediction (Can read opponents movements[78] and when they are holding back[79]
Information Analysis (Deduced Tien's level of power and skill by observing him fight while suppressed[58])
Besides being able to fight against Grandpa Gohan, a master of all martial arts, and against Roshi, who humiliated the werewolf who is a level 30 Kempo master, and in irl there are just 10

 

[AlternativePrinciple]

Goku has
Blessed (Protection; Bardock wished for his two sons to grow up healthy, causing Goku to obtain a protection until he reached adulthood, making things that could be fatal to him, not kill him)

Nard has layered Sealing so it doesn’t matter if nard can’t kill him.

Limited Breaking the Fourth Wall (Broke the manga panel by knocking Yamcha into it.[50] Later, during the 21st Budōkai, he and Krillin interrupted a fight to promote the next volume of the manga[15])

Irrelevant

Accelerated Development (Battle, Physical Stats & Abilities; As a Saiyan, Goku grows stronger every time he fights and can become stronger in the midst of combat, vastly increasing in strength whenever he is mortally injured)

Sure, nard also has AD. Question becomes does Goku pull a Mori Jin and get 100,000X stronger in one second.

Power Mimicry (Replicated the Kamehameha in seconds with just a glance, which took him 50 years to master,[51] he also believed he could use his Kamehameha to fly after seeing Master Roshi do the same,[52] allowing him to develop the technique in various unique ways.[53][54] During the 21st Tenka'ichi Budōkai, Goku replicated the Afterimage Fist Technique after seeing Master Roshi use the technique,[17] and soon after copied the Three-Fold to Many-Fold Afterimage Fist.[55][56][57] During the 22nd Tenka'ichi Budōkai, he even used the Eight Arms Fist technique which he copied from King Chappa during the preliminaries.[58][59] During the 23rd Tenka'ichi Budōkai, Goku replicated Tien Shinhan's Solar Flare technique, making him the first person outside the Tsuru-sen school to use the technique[60])

Irrelevant as the sharingan does the same thing and nard doesn’t have any problems dealing with that. Also I want to question how is Goku copying chakra based attacks without having chakra himself?

Analytical Prediction (Can read opponents movements[78] and when they are holding back[79]
Information Analysis (Deduced Tien's level of power and skill by observing him fight while suppressed[58])

Nard has vastly superior version of both of these abilities that is hilarious to even compare both.

Besides being able to fight against Grandpa Gohan, a master of all martial arts, and against Roshi, who humiliated the werewolf who is a level 30 Kempo master, and in irl there are just 10

Meh, I already outlined in my previous post why nards skills better than gokus.

 

[karo_senpaii]

Voting Naruto

 

[Gp972]

Meh, I already outlined in my previous post why nards skills better than gokus.

In Haxs is better

Goku stomps in h2d and skill

 

[AlternativePrinciple]

In Haxs is better

Goku stomps in h2d and skill

I don’t see Goku fighting dudes that have three different forms of prediction abilities that stack ontop of one another, with one of them providing flawless counters to every attack including h2h. Furthermore I don’t see Goku outperforming dudes that can counter perfect attacks them selfs while having their mind read and being under two prediction abilities stacked ontop while being skilled enough to outperform the sharingan.

But hey I saw DBZ a long time ago, so you can give feats and disprove me

 

[Gp972]

I don’t see Goku fighting dudes that have three different forms of prediction abilities that stack ontop of one another, with one of them providing flawless counters to every attack including h2h. Furthermore I don’t see Goku outperforming dudes that can counter perfect attacks them selfs while having their mind read and being under two prediction abilities stacked ontop while being skilled enough to outperform the sharingan.

But hey I saw DBZ a long time ago, so can give feats

If we go more generally, not just taking into account classic DB, Goku was able to predict the movements of a guy who stopps time(was able to predict the movements he'd make in the 0.1 seconds of skipped time and react properly, beating a technique that for over 1000 years was completely unstoppable, even as Hit was constantly improving said technique in battle.), And master Ultra Instinct in 48 minutes, also fight Cell who has the abilities and combat skills of Vegeta, Piccolo, Frieza and his father

 

[AlternativePrinciple]

If we go more generally, not just taking into account classic DB, Goku was able to predict the movements of a guy who stopps time(was able to predict the movements he'd make in the 0.1 seconds of skipped time and react properly, beating a technique that for over 1000 years was completely unstoppable, even as Hit was constantly improving said technique in battle.),

So Urashiki level? Than yea Kid Nard was doing that more

And master Ultra Instinct in 48 minutes, also fight Cell who has the abilities and combat skills of Vegeta, Piccolo, Frieza and his father

Sure, Naruto master sage of six paths mode almost instantly and all the abilities that come with, furthermore can fight against otsusuki whom have a millennium worth of experience by absorbing the information and experiences of multiple civilizations in which would have hundreds if not thousands of different martial arts techniques.

Sage mode alone give Naruto perfect offense and defense in martial arts. I don’t see anything that Goku has that’s considered as the “perfect” martial art or countering folks that can counter attacks “flawlessly” these attacks are so perfect that they return the energy back to its targets. It’s like playing brilliant moves after brilliant move in chess

 

[Steve1775]

If we go more generally, not just taking into account classic DB, Goku was able to predict the movements of a guy who stopps time(was able to predict the movements he'd make in the 0.1 seconds of skipped time and react properly, beating a technique that for over 1000 years was completely unstoppable, even as Hit was constantly improving said technique in battle.), And master Ultra Instinct in 48 minutes, also fight Cell who has the abilities and combat skills of Vegeta, Piccolo, Frieza and his father

Why are you bringing up DBS stuff...

 

[MochOath]

Voting goku

counted

Voting Naruto

counted

 

[Delusionaltx2]

voting naruto via rasenshiriken spam

 

[Mommyleona]

why are we saying Naruto spams one of his stronger moves at some random kid he just encountered over Goku just flicking him hard

 

[Delusionaltx2]

why are we saying Naruto spams one of his stronger moves at some random kid he just encountered over Goku just flicking him hard

Because it's more likely that nard uses clones and quickly finds out about the massive AP difference, then resorts to stronger attacks before Goku lands a direct hit

 

[AigerTheKing]

Naruto FRA

 

[MochOath]

voting naruto via rasenshiriken spam

Naruto FRA

counted

 

[R81handman]

voting Naruto

 

[R81handman]

If we go more generally, not just taking into account classic DB, Goku was able to predict the movements of a guy who stopps time(was able to predict the movements he'd make in the 0.1 seconds of skipped time and react properly, beating a technique that for over 1000 years was completely unstoppable, even as Hit was constantly improving said technique in battle.), And master Ultra Instinct in 48 minutes, also fight Cell who has the abilities and combat skills of Vegeta, Piccolo, Frieza and his father

this is irrelevant to the vs battle. you can not attribute future feats to a character who has not preformed them. as for the DBS and DBZ feats you quoted these came from years of training with uses of the hyperbolic time chamber for rapid growth, and whis tutelage. None of them are relevant for DB kid Goku.

This is like saying kid Naruto can gain immune/resistance to EE erasure because he did in the future.

 

[DavidTPPM]

Also he dragonball fighting system seems to be even more advantaged than the likes of god of highschool. While GoH is based on studying traditional chinese martial arts to create Re Taekwondo, gohan and roshi seem to know every martial art/technique in existence and Kid Goku reached a point where he surpassed them and only lost due being maller. Pretty cool feat for a 12 year old.

This is wrong BTW. On multiple levels

 

[MochOath]

voting Naruto

counted

 

[MinatoSparkle]

Naruto FRA

 

[AthelChan]

Also he dragonball fighting system seems to be even more advantaged than the likes of god of highschool. While GoH is based on studying traditional chinese martial arts to create Re Taekwondo, gohan and roshi seem to know every martial art/technique in existence and Kid Goku reached a point where he surpassed them and only lost due being maller. Pretty cool feat for a 12 year old.

what the **** im i reading???

 

[AthelChan]

Naruto FRA

 

[MochOath]

Naruto FRA

Naruto FRA

counted

 

[DavidTPPM]

Nard fra

 

[ARandomDude127]

What are these matchups bro, first Deku now ts

What could Kid Goku have done to ANY of you

But anyways, seeing the arguments I think it’s pretty easy to say Naruto wins here, Naruto FRA

 

[MochOath]

Nard fra

But anyways, seeing the arguments I think it’s pretty easy to say Naruto wins here, Naruto FRA

counted

 

[MochOath]

What are these matchups bro, first Deku now ts

What could Kid Goku have done to ANY of you

But anyways, seeing the arguments I think it’s pretty easy to say Naruto wins here, Naruto FRA

i honestly though Naruto would struggle more cause the stat gap and skill meta

i had a Baryon Mode Naruto vs Goku match queued up after this, but i wont even bother anymore if the Goku agenda is this washed rn...

 

[DavidTPPM]

i honestly though Naruto would struggle more cause the stat gap and skill meta

i had a Baryon Mode Naruto vs Goku match queued up after this, but i wont even bother anymore if the Goku agenda is this washed rn...

Ngl BM Nard probably gets washed as long as Goku has any skill arguments at least half as good as his DBS self in his tier 4 keys.

Baryon Mode gives Naruto a massive stamina restriction and removes most of his OP abilities like clones, rasen shurikens, and sealing. It'd mostly be a straight up martial arts competition with one side having ass stamina

 

[ARandomDude127]

i honestly though Naruto would struggle more cause the stat gap and skill meta

The guys not in the know… skill meta was abandoned long ago…

LS meta is what the youngins are all about nowadays…
never getting over that Deku vs Goku matchup bro

 

[MinatoSparkle]

Ngl BM Nard probably gets washed as long as Goku has any skill arguments at least half as good as his DBS self in his tier 4 keys.

Baryon Mode gives Naruto a massive stamina restriction and removes most of his OP abilities like clones, rasen shurikens, and sealing. It'd mostly be a straight up martial arts competition with one side having ass stamina

He can use his abilities, they'd just wash his stamina quicker

 

[Raiden38]

quick while the goku supps are dead and washed!

Naruto Uzumaki (New Era)

Attack Potency: 118.88 Zettatons with Kurama Six Paths Sage Mode, 237.76 Zettatons with Stronger Ninjutsu, 356.64 Zettatons with Asura Avatar, 713.28 Zettatons with Six Paths: Ultra-Big Ball Rasenshuriken
Durability: 118.88 Zettatons with Kurama Six Paths Sage Mode, 356.64 Zettatons with Asura Avatar
Lifting Strength: 21.82 quintillion Metric Tons, 45.408 quintillion Metric Tons with boil release and with Kurama Avatar


Son Goku (22nd Budōkai)

Attack Potency: 1.502 Yottatons, up to far higher with Kamehameha
Durability: 1.502 Yottatons
Lifting Strength: 5.28197 Billion Metric Tons


Naruto's Baryon Mode is restricted
Goku's Great Ape Transformation is restricted
Speed is Equalized

The Peacebringer: Arkansalter2, Foriaa, Xdsagecat, AlternativePrinciple, karo_senpaii, Delusionaltx2, AigerTheKing, R81handman, MinatoSparkle, AthelChan, DavidTPPM, ARandomDude127
The Martial Arts Champion: Rex_Eckles, Gp972
Inconclusive:

Naruto FRA

 

[Omegabronic]

Besides being able to fight against Grandpa Gohan, a master of all martial arts, and against Roshi, who humiliated the werewolf who is a level 30 Kempo master, and in irl there are just 10

What are the pratical skills of both of those?... what exactly does "level 30 Kenpo" entails? And what exactly would "all martial arts" have against what Naruto can do?

 

[Omegabronic]

If we go more generally, not just taking into account classic DB, Goku was able to predict the movements of a guy who stopps time(was able to predict the movements he'd make in the 0.1 seconds of skipped time and react properly, beating a technique that for over 1000 years was completely unstoppable, even as Hit was constantly improving said technique in battle.)

after Hit improve just to 0.2 he was helpless against it, and he was only able to do that after watching Hit fighting and getting his ability explained to him... and even then, he only could predict 0.1 seconds to the future... that's barely an attack

And master Ultra Instinct in 48 minutes

He can learn a technique fast... how's that gonna help against Naruto tho?

also fight Cell who has the abilities and combat skills of Vegeta, Piccolo, Frieza and his father

And what does that entail?

 

[MochOath]

Naruto FRA

counted

 

[Da3ggman]

Naruto FRA, he finally manages to be Kid Goku, truly incredible.

 

[MochOath]

Naruto FRA, he finally manages to be Kid Goku, truly incredible.

counted

 

[AStrangeverse]

after Hit improve just to 0.2 he was helpless against it, and he was only able to do that after watching Hit fighting and getting his ability explained to him... and even then, he only could predict 0.1 seconds to the future... that's barely an attack

ain't shit was explained to him, rewatch that portion of the fight

the man pieces it together on his own after testing the waters

 

[Eden5Zeroo]

I think you are mistaking the Byakugan with the sharingan as the byakugan was stated to have predictive capabilities via analysis of kinetic movements. As far as I know there is no statements regarding what the sharingan uses information wise to predict its opponents next move other than straight up showing a way to dodge.

Well as I outlined above we don’t really know what the sharingan uses for its analytical predictions. That aside I want to note that the sharingan is quite broken in its analytical predictions as

• At one time the sharingan is able to predict and dodge a danmaku of different attacks such as small iron balls or kunai. Showing its effectiveness against multiple of targets.
• Second tome it can flawlessly predict and counter any move-sets done by its opponents. So this level it can predict and counter attacks flawlessly which is already a high bar for most verses to overcome.
• Third tome just straight up gives visuals of it’s opponents next move akin to future site.

Nard is able to go head to head with this type of predictive capabilities with just his own skills at a young while the sharingan user has better perception speed.

Fast forward to Shippuden and nard has learned Frog Kuwmita which is a martial arts that flawlessly counters any H2H, so much so that it redirects the energy used in h2h back to its opponents. Moreover in Naruto, skilled Shinobi are able to read the minds of those they come in contact with so while nard is doing H2H he is able to read each other’s minds.

This is before any analytical predictions nard himself gets which just furthers his own skills. He gets to such a level that he can keep up with people that have the sharingan, byakugan, sage mode and can read minds at the same time while his opponents can keep up with his predictive capabilities and flawless counter attacks in h2h.

Thx

While its never explicitly stated, the ability clearly relies on line of sight and biomechanics to calculate timing and traectories. Whether you call it "reading movements" or "predicting muscle fibers" the point is the same ... XD. I think theres some context missing regarding "mind reading" ... me been binging the series so im no expert, but it feels more like reading intent. Also, I dont agree with the "future sight" claim. Kakashi tricked Zabuza into overestimating the Sharingan, and he already knew what he was doing during that fight and theres a big anti feat thats speaks against IT. No Idea what Viz says cus ive read it in japanese. But like i said, no expert so i trust you for now.

Naruto was on my watching list for april but I already hate myself for watching it for battleborading purose so i wont look deeper into it. I wrote on your profile so we can have a small talk once if fully watched it.

This is wrong BTW. On multiple levels

Maybe my wording was bad xD I was exhausted from multitasking and binging naruto. in Goh from a non hax part, things like a higher belt system or guys who have mastered every martial art/technique arent a thing. Thats what i meant with more advantaged when it comes to pure H2H: We can discuss this on your profile or mine if you want. Im rarely online here, so moving the chat will keep it from getting lost or unnecessarily bumping the thread

Left a comment in your wall in case we both forget later XD Thats happens to me a Lot when im multitaskin

 

[DavidTPPM]

in Goh from a non hax part, things like a higher belt system or guys who have mastered every martial art/technique arent a thing. Thats what i meant with more advantaged when it comes to pure H2H: We can discuss this on your profile or mine if you want. Im rarely online here, so moving the chat will keep it from getting lost or unnecessarily bumping the thread

Yeah but that's because mastering "every martial art" is damn near useless.

As that one Hollywood actor once said "I fear not the man who has trained 1000 kicks but the man who trained one kick 1000 times"

And "higher belt levels" are okayish for inverse skill scaling if you're short in time but even those are very bad as arguments because they don't account for the individual persons intelligence and other personal attributes. Skill is too complex to be decided purely by a single number like that.

Left a comment in your wall in case we both forget later XD Thats happens to me a Lot when im multitaskin

Sure I'll reply there ig.

 

[AlternativePrinciple]

As that one Hollywood actor once said "I fear not the man who has trained 1000 kicks but the man who trained one kick 1000 times"

Rock Lee right?