Marvel and DC Policy - Cross-Scaling Revision Proposal

[Antvasima]

What is each side of the argument here in summary?

 

[FroYoSans]

Actually it’s just when people make threads and try to change anything, be it a statistic or a scaling change. Someone tried to upgrade some Marvel characters to MHS+/Rel because they fly to space but apparently it didn’t work because you can backscale to the street dudes. So everyone is limited to a certain level. Look how idiotic this is.

Holy lord yeah no that's absolutely insane, sounds terrible to throw crazy feats for a consistent meta only for it to be shot down because it backscales to Street tiers. It seems even weirder because like we don't downscale the JL or Flash despite the fact that Batman and Hella Street tiers have fought them before, even if that wouldn't impact their max speed they're not even given a varies tier they just are MFTL+

 

[The_Impress]

What is each side of the argument here in summary?

Subjective argument vs. subjective argument, essentially. Nothing getting discussed here is objective and mostly just has to do with if you think scaling chains are a fact of life or affront to god.

As said I think the DC portion should get a separate thread altogether, so its discussion shouldn't even be brought up.

Frankly I just don't really agree with the sentiments M3X presented me, we discussed it a bit offsite. So yeah just depends on what the supporterbase wants to do, I suppose.

We can do a votecount maybe.

 

[NaturalDestroyer]

Am I understanding this correctly?

Position A: Emphasize subfranchise scaling and feats over verse-wide scaling chains without eliminating the latter

Position B: Keep things as-is and maintain current scaling chains

 

[The_Impress]

"without eliminating the latter (borderline vibes based)" essentially

some questionable system that looks like its not arbitrary but frankly is kinda arbitrary will dictate what character gets a scaling chain or not

 

[NaturalDestroyer]

I was wondering what the standard would be for excluding appearances. I guess there isn't an objective one haha

 

[M3X_2.0]

I don't agree with doing a vote count now because as I said, I'm waiting for more examples. I do have some and I believe they're enough to show how ****** up the current system is and how it butchers characters feats in favor of a made up scaling chain. The most alarming example being this:

Someone tried to upgrade some Marvel characters to MHS+/Rel because they fly to space but apparently it didn’t work because you can backscale to the street dudes.

Dozens of characters CAN'T HAVE THEIR FEATS INDEXED because you somehow can backscale it to street level characters. And we're doing nothing.

 

[Antvasima]

Position A: Emphasize subfranchise scaling and feats over verse-wide scaling chains without eliminating the latter

I do agree about that since Marvel Comics runs on everybody can fight everybody, with power levels that go up and down between 9-C and 1-A (or higher) depending on the story, chain-scaling often leads to serious unreliability.

 

[The_Impress]

The most alarming example being this:

Being speed scaling which your system by your own professing, doesn't count.

Why do people act like speed scaling is a relevant consistency at all, beats me, but cross-scaling isn't the actual reason for it being ass. Thor will still get punked by random mfers in speed because he isn't categorized as a speedster and speed is the most difficult stat to powerscale without making the verse/story/setpiece boring. This is actually something that happens in most verses on the wiki but the antifeat ignorance and whataboutisms is fundamental in this scaling.

So no I will not accept speed as being a relevant showcase for the system because I think nobody on this entire wiki has same standards for speed and AP. Speed is not getting done under the same system, because nobody has bothered to put in mechanics for it.

I don't agree with doing a vote count now because as I said, I'm waiting for more examples.

Your system cannot get any examples against it because it does not exist. Put it to votecount right now.

I do agree about that since Marvel Comics runs on everybody can fight everybody, with power levels that go up and down between 9-C and 1-A (or higher) depending on the story, chain-scaling often leads to serious unreliability.

Do you prefer the alternative of Scarlet Witch getting scaled to her solo series which makes up 3% of her actual appearance?

Chainscaling without mechanisms is bad, chainscaling with consideration to them is entirely flawless. I don't understand how this is a problem when you guys actively yes'd chainscaling proposals which nulled mechanisms behind my back off of the approval of 2 discussion mods that admitted to me to my face that they didn't read the proposals.

There are very few problems with the system as I see it, there are problems with the way you refuse to close threads and allow for impractical threads to be posted and inputted on that end up at 14 pages or so. There would be HALF the scaling problems if you just let the system as I had it stay, and only allowed actually well constructed CRTs and not just randomly tagging staff on functionally dead or hijacked threads.

 

[Antvasima]

I trust Impress' sense of judgement regarding Marvel Comics. She seems to have a sufficient combination of lots of continuity knowledge and common sense to straighten out our scaling for this verse.

 

[M3X_2.0]

Being speed scaling which your system by your own professing, doesn't count.

Doesn’t matter, it’s still relevant. It’s the exact same problem. Characters can’t have their feats indexed because you want to maintain a scaling that ditches their feats in favor of it.

Your system cannot get any examples against it because it does not exist.

All the 9-Bs are in this Tier because I removed 2 or 3 calcs, and that’s about 100+ profiles. 72 8-C Marvel characters were downgraded because 2 calculations were removed. Heavyweights like Cap Marvel and co. can’t have their true speed feats indexed because of this bullshit.

There are plenty of examples.

Put it to votecount right now.

Sure. Dale, Tempest, Emirp and Maverik agreed with the thread. Armor, and maybe DDM and Planck disagree. So I suppose we can close this thread and apply the revisions if you’re so desperate of doing a votecount.

I trust Impress' sense of judgement regarding Marvel Comics. She seems to have a sufficient combination of lots of continuity knowledge and common sense to straighten out our scaling for this verse.

I don’t. Open your eyes dude characters literally can’t have their shit indexed the way it currently is.

 

[Rgerdeena]

All the 9-Bs are in this Tier because I removed 2 or 3 calcs, and that’s about 100+ profiles. 72 8-C Marvel characters were downgraded because 2 calculations were removed. Heavyweights like Cap Marvel and co. can’t have their true speed feats indexed because of this bullshit.

They never should have been 8-C in the first place, this doesn’t at all prove a flaw in chain scaling it just proves a flaw in how the 9-A characters specifically were poorly handled and scaled to out of context feats that they shouldn’t have been

Sure. Dale, Tempest, Emirp and Maverik agreed with the thread. Armor, and maybe DDM and Planck disagree. So I suppose we can close this thread and apply the revisions if you’re so desperate of doing a votecount.

I think you’re forgetting ant who agrees with impress who disagrees, which makes it 4 to 4, and also 4 to 3 is hardly enough to immediately apply it with no further input, also a lot of those agreements were from before the arguments were nearly as fleshed out as they are now

Doesn’t matter, it’s still relevant. It’s the exact same problem. Characters can’t have their feats indexed because you want to maintain a scaling that ditches their feats in favor of it.

Like impress said, that’s because speed is weird and no matter what speed ratings will never be entirely accurate which is true for speed even more so then it is for AP

 

[Armorchompy]

72 8-C Marvel characters were downgraded because 2 calculations were removed.

Cause they're all in the roughly same power tier. This isn't an error.

Heavyweights like Cap Marvel and co. can’t have their true speed feats indexed because of this bullshit.

They can be indexed, they're just outliers because these people aren't faster than the street tiers. Sitting down and pretending that isn't a factor is making the indexing worse. You literally agreed speed would be exempt from this either way.

I don’t. Open your eyes dude characters literally can’t have their shit indexed the way it currently is.

You're not changing anything. All you're doing is suggesting some changes you haven't done the research to implement.

 

[M3X_2.0]

They never should have been 8-C in the first place, this doesn’t at all prove a flaw in chain scaling it just proves a flaw in how the 9-A characters specifically were poorly handled and scaled to out of context feats that they shouldn’t have been

That’s literally not the point I made, 72 characters scaling off of 2 feats of two characters most of them probably have no business scaling to. That’s the point, the Tier is irrelevant.

I think you’re forgetting ant who agrees with impress who disagrees, which makes it 4 to 4, and also 4 to 3 is hardly enough to immediately apply it with no further input, also a lot of those agreements were from before the arguments were nearly as fleshed out as they are now

Ant who changes votes whenever he feels like and also agreed with the thread before. I also for some reason can’t access pages 2-4 directly here so I just edited the URL to page 2 and Damage also agreed. It’s 5 in total. DDM didn’t even vote properly. The reason I don’t wanna votecount is cause I wanna make it fair cause I could easily bullshit my way through getting this accepted.

Like impress said, that’s because speed is weird and no matter what speed ratings will never be entirely accurate which is true for speed even more so then it is for AP

There absolutely no ******* way a sane person thinks Captain Marvel speeds should back scale to 9-Bs so that’s just wrong and also a valid example of how trash the current system is.

Cause they're all in the roughly same power tier. This isn't an error.

Who are “they”? The old 8-Cs now 9-As and 9-Bs? Some might be, some are far stronger. More reasons to scale these characters to their own feats. Woah.

They can be indexed, they're just outliers because these people aren't faster than the street tiers. Sitting down and pretending that isn't a factor is making the indexing worse. You literally agreed speed would be exempt from this either way.

They are faster, they literally fly to space and come back in seconds. They fight at this speed, we do the same for heralds, even though you don’t agree with it it literally does matter because it’s something we accept.

You're not changing anything. All you're doing is suggesting some changes you haven't done the research to implement.

I am changing things, I’m making characters scale to their feats and feats from characters they share more appearances with rather than getting affected by someone they don’t even interact with.

 

[Tllmbrg]

There absolutely no ******* way a sane person thinks Captain Marvel speeds should back scale to 9-Bs so that’s just wrong and also a valid example of how trash the current system is.

I mean, why not? Like, from my experience in comics Captain Marvel isn't blitizing Daredevil or other guys like that lol.

 

[M3X_2.0]

I mean, why not? Like, from my experience in comics Captain Marvel isn't blitizing Daredevil or other guys like that lol.

For the same reason heralds are not blitzing 9-Bs, quite the opposite, they’re getting their ass beat by them most of the times, and yet we give them MFTL+ combat speed and reactions.

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

There absolutely no ******* way a sane person thinks Captain Marvel speeds should back scale to 9-Bs so that’s just wrong and also a valid example of how trash the current system is.

Think there's well over a hundred examples of 9-Bs keeping up with lads around Captain Marvel's speeds.
Actually isn't that what the MCU is doing rn?

 

[Tllmbrg]

For the same reason heralds are blitzing 9-Bs, quite the opposite, they’re getting their ass beat by them most of the times, and yet we give them MFTL+ combat speed and reactions.

Do you even have examples of Heralds even semi-consistently blitzing 9-Bs?

 

[M3X_2.0]

Do you even have examples of Heralds even semi-consistently blitzing 9-Bs?

Meant to say they’re NOT blitzing them. I edited my comment.

 

[M3X_2.0]

Think there's well over a hundred examples of 9-Bs keeping up with lads around Captain Marvel's speeds.
Actually isn't that what the MCU is doing rn?

No, it’s completely different since the main point there was not to differentiate speed tiers between characters and more into downgrading the MHS+ rating.

 

[Rgerdeena]

That’s literally not the point I made, 72 characters scaling off of 2 feats of two characters most of them probably have no business scaling to. That’s the point, the Tier is irrelevant.

This doesn’t prove anything, this is just what you think is the problem and people that disagree with you don’t think is the problem, saying it exists doesn’t prove anything

Ant who changes votes whenever he feels like and also agreed with the thread before. I also for some reason can’t access pages 2-4 directly here so I just edited the URL to page 2 and Damage also agreed. It’s 5 in total. DDM didn’t even vote properly. The reason I don’t wanna votecount is cause I wanna make it fair cause I could easily bullshit my way through getting this accepted.

I don’t care whether or not ant changes his vote, his Vote still counts, I’d say it counts if he said the fundamental opposite of what I agree with, if you’re going to count the votes you count all staff that count

There absolutely no ******* way a sane person thinks Captain Marvel speeds should back scale to 9-Bs so that’s just wrong and also a valid example of how trash the current system is.

I don’t, I think it’s blatantly PIS that street tiers can keep up with upper mid tiers with a few exceptions, but regardless armor thinks that Captain marvel does back scale to 9-Bs and he’s the only staff member participating there at the moment

Who are “they”? The old 8-Cs now 9-As and 9-Bs? Some might be, some are far stronger. More reasons to scale these characters to their own feats. Woah.

If their far stronger then they can scale to their own feats without your system, if they need your system to scale to their own feats they aren’t far stronger

 

[M3X_2.0]

This doesn’t prove anything, this is just what you think is the problem and people that disagree with you don’t think is the problem, saying it exists doesn’t prove anything

What do you mean it doesn’t prove anything? 72 characters scaling off of two characters, and the moment these two characters lose their calcs they lose all the scaling. HOW IN THE WORLD 72 characters losing their Tier because of a scaling chain isn’t an issue dude. What’s so hard to understand?

I don’t care whether or not ant changes his vote, his Vote still counts, I’d say it counts if he said the fundamental opposite of what I agree with, if you’re going to count the votes you count all staff that count

Sure. It’s 5-3 realistically because DDM never actually voted. I guess I’ll request this thread getting closed and apply the changes.

I don’t, I think it’s blatantly PIS that street tiers can keep up with upper mid tiers with a few exceptions, but regardless armor thinks that Captain marvel does back scale to 9-Bs and he’s the only staff member participating there at the moment

Being a staff member doesn’t make his arguments automatically correct, and he was pretty much debunked there by OP and his supporters.

If their far stronger then they can scale to their own feats without your system, if they need your system to scale to their own feats they aren’t far stronger

No correlation. Captain America consistently beats a lot of 9-Bs with easy and he doesn’t have practical 9-A or higher feats. Feats ≠ calcs.

 

[M3X_2.0]

I also don’t know why any of you want to conclude this now. I said I was gonna wait for more examples, what harm does this thread being open cause?

Arguing over and over again for the same topic won’t change anything. The more Marvel threads out there the more examples I have. Literally make any upgrade, downgrade or scaling chain thread and I instantly get an example in favor of this thread.

 

[Armorchompy]

That’s literally not the point I made, 72 characters scaling off of 2 feats of two characters most of them probably have no business scaling to. That’s the point, the Tier is irrelevant.

"Probably"

Who are “they”? The old 8-Cs now 9-As and 9-Bs? Some might be, some are far stronger. More reasons to scale these characters to their own feats. Woah.

"Might" You literally don't know if what you're saying is even correct, literally just "we should split scaling because the vibes are wrong". If characters have feats they should scale to them, there's no reason to arbitrarily disagree with wider scaling if there aren't issues with it. We don't actually have feats for those characters atm mind you so it's literally baseless.

There absolutely no ******* way a sane person thinks Captain Marvel speeds should back scale to 9-Bs so that’s just wrong and also a valid example of how trash the current system is.

Appeal to common sense, etc etc.

They are faster, they literally fly to space and come back in seconds. They fight at this speed, we do the same for heralds, even though you don’t agree with it it literally does matter because it’s something we accept.

I'm not going to sit here and debate what I've already debated there. The fact that you're acting like it's that simple when it isn't shows you're kind of just taking an opinion and going with it.

I am changing things, I’m making characters scale to their feats and feats from characters they share more appearances with rather than getting affected by someone they don’t even interact with.

You're hung up on that concept when it wouldn't actually be beneficial.

 

[M3X_2.0]

"Probably"

Yeah, probably. How can I affirm they 100% scale to each other? The profiles are doing that and they’re wrong by doing that. Cable literally strength moggs Captain America and he was scaling to feat that KOed Cable.

"Might" You literally don't know if what you're saying is even correct, literally just "we should split scaling because the vibes are wrong". If characters have feats they should scale to them, there's no reason to arbitrarily disagree with wider scaling if there aren't issues with it

“Might” because again, how can I affirm these characters are stronger or not? And again, the profiles do that and it’s wrong because they have no feats to support that idea.

Appeal to common sense, etc etc.

Common sense which is what you’re lacking here. Goodry though.

I'm not going to sit here and debate what I've already debated there.

Yeah cause we don’t need that anymore. Pretty much everything you said here, I replied to.

The fact that you're acting like it's that simple when it isn't shows you're kind of just taking an opinion and going with it.

The fact you think this isn’t some extremely complicated task shows how dumb we as a wiki collectively became this past few years. Literally ditching feats and calling them outliers because it scales to someone that shouldn’t. Lol, lmao even.

You're hung up on that concept when it wouldn't actually be beneficial.

The concept is beneficial. See how I can also make claims and not prove them

 

[Rgerdeena]

What do you mean it doesn’t prove anything? 72 characters scaling off of two characters, and the moment these two characters lose their calcs they lose all the scaling. HOW IN THE WORLD 72 characters losing their Tier because of a scaling chain isn’t an issue dude. What’s so hard to understand?

I’m not sure what to tell you that I haven’t already told you

Sure. It’s 5-3 realistically because DDM never actually voted. I guess I’ll request this thread getting closed and apply the changes.

Like I already said a lot of your agreements were from before the arguments were nearly as fleshed out as they are now, meaning we should probably wait to see if their opinions have changed with the more fleshed out arguments

Being a staff member doesn’t make his arguments automatically correct, and he was pretty much debunked there by OP and his supporters.

It doesn’t make him correct, it makes him the only staff member there which is why that thread hasn’t been applied

No correlation. Captain America consistently beats a lot of 9-Bs with easy and he doesn’t have practical 9-A or higher feats. Feats ≠ calcs.

And?, all your proving is that if your system was accepted then Captain America would be potentially weaker then characters he consistently stomps

 

[M3X_2.0]

I’m not sure what to tell you that I haven’t already told you

Like I already said a lot of your agreements were from before the arguments were nearly as fleshed out as they are now, meaning we should probably wait to see if their opinions have changed with the more fleshed out arguments

It doesn’t make him correct, it makes him the only staff member there which is why that thread hasn’t been applied

And?, all your proving is that if your system was accepted then Captain America would be potentially weaker then characters he consistently stomps

Yeah dude sure. Whatever you say. My mistake was not making this thread staff only to avoid these dumbass arguments. Just stonewalling for the love of the game.

 

[Rgerdeena]

Yeah dude sure. Whatever you say. My mistake was not making this thread staff only to avoid these dumbass arguments. Just stonewalling for the love of the game.

How am I stonewalling, when I had no more arguments on a certain subject I stopped arguing, I said we should wait which you’ve also said we should do, I conceded that your partly correct, and I made a valid point that i haven’t already made, in what definition is that stonewalling in the slightest?

 

[M3X_2.0]

How am I stonewalling, when I had no more arguments on a certain subject I stopped arguing, I said we should wait which you’ve also said we should do, I conceded that your partly correct, and I made a valid point that i haven’t already made, in what definition is that stonewalling in the slightest?

You’re making the same arguments this whole thread, somehow refused to acknowledge how problematic 70 characters scaling to two other characters based on absolutely nothing but “should scale to”.

And?, all your proving is that if your system was accepted then Captain America would be potentially weaker then characters he consistently stomps

The fact that you think this is true makes me believe you haven’t read anything here and doesn’t understand the proposal at all. I respectfully ask you to not comment here anymore until you have understood the proposal or have something useful to say, and both are not the case here given your past comments.

 

[Rgerdeena]

I respectfully ask you to not comment here anymore until you have understood the proposal or have something useful to say

I disagree with literally everything you said in that comment, but this is a staff discussion thread so farewell, hope you enjoy not arguing with me so that one of us benefits

 

[M3X_2.0]

but this is a staff discussion thread

It is not, though.

 

[Dalesean027]

No. We are still discussing and things have yet to be decided. If someone want to discuss the topic they'll unfortunately have to read through the arguments, and to be fair, there ain't much, anyway.

You gotta be kidding me. The character whose name is on the cover. Iron Man's primary source is his Iron Man books. Doctor Strange's primary source is his Doctor Strange books. If a book is called "The Avengers" and not "Iron Man," it's probably not Iron Man's primary source. This really isn't a complicated distinction.

That's a valid correction, I did concede that crossovers shouldn't be treated as secondary across the board. The actual point is that crossovers don't take priority over a character's own consistent portrayal when there's a contradiction, which is a more precise version of the same idea. As for the existing policy already covering this, three pages of disagreement about what counts as valid scaling is pretty good evidence that it doesn't.

Cross-scaling remains valid, but a character's own consistent portrayal across their primary source material takes priority in cases of contradiction. A character's primary source is defined by the books centered around them, the ones where they are the main focus. Cross-scaling is only applicable as primary justification when the narrative explicitly frames the characters as comparable, not merely because they interact, appear in the same event, or fight alongside each other incidentally.

Characters whose primary showcase comes from team books, events, or crossovers due to having little to no meaningful solo history scale normally from those appearances, as that constitutes their primary source material.

Anti-feats are part of a character's consistent portrayal and should be weighed alongside positive feats when determining their tier.

Cross-scaling between characters with no consistent narrative relationship should not be used to pull characters into scaling chains that don't reflect their own demonstrated power level.

After a long discussion with @Armorchompy we've reached an updated version of the proposal that I think addresses most of the concerns raised in this thread.

Speed is being excluded from the framework entirely. Marvel is simply too inconsistent with how it portrays speed at most tiers to make meaningful distinctions, and trying to apply this to speed would create more problems than it solves. For everything else, AP, durability, lifting strength and striking strength, there is enough granularity in how characters are portrayed to make this work.

The core idea remains the same. Instead of characters being pulled into massive scaling chains that don't reflect their own portrayal, they now scale to their own feats and to characters they have a consistent narrative relationship with. This doesn't isolate characters from each other, it just means that a character on the periphery of a scaling chain who rarely interacts with its backbone stops inheriting stats that have nothing to do with them.

Spoiler: proposal

A character's primary source material is defined by the books in which they hold notable plot relevance. This includes solo runs, team books, and events where the character plays a significant role, not merely appears incidentally.

Particular care must be taken when a character would scale to a feat that doesn't reflect their own portrayal, especially in cases where they have no consistent narrative relationship with the character who performed the feat. Cross-scaling is only applicable as primary justification when the narrative explicitly frames the characters as comparable, not merely because they interact or appear together incidentally.

Anti-feats are part of a character's consistent portrayal and should be weighed alongside positive feats when determining their statistics.

These guidelines apply specifically to Attack Potency, Durability, Lifting Strength and Striking Strength. Speed is excluded from this framework given the lack of meaningful granularity in how Marvel and DC portray it at most tiers.

Characters whose primary showcase comes from team books or events due to having little to no meaningful solo history scale normally from those appearances.

They scale to whoever they're scaling already cause this won't change. I've been clear about what changes: Characters don't need to share a scaling chain, and upgrading or downgrading a character shouldn't affect different characters that have interacted once during a crossover, which is what I want to "remove", or at least, make it harder to scale based on one single, isolated interaction.

A real example would be if I upgrade Daredevil's AP to 9-A it shouldn't affect Gambit, and by consequence Fantomex, and then Mystique, and then Nightcrawler and then whoever scales to him. This is the current scaling chain we have. Just like they don't scale off of Daredevil's Class 5 and K feats in LS.

I actually want Armor to comment again so he can express himself before we continue.

These proposals seem fine to me

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

It is not, though.

Look at the board this is posted on

Edit: @Emirp sumitpo changed it a while back

 

[M3X_2.0]

Look at the board this is posted on

Oh shit I forgor since it’s not in the title

 

[KingTempest]

After a long discussion with @Armorchompy we've reached an updated version of the proposal that I think addresses most of the concerns raised in this thread.

Speed is being excluded from the framework entirely. Marvel is simply too inconsistent with how it portrays speed at most tiers to make meaningful distinctions, and trying to apply this to speed would create more problems than it solves. For everything else, AP, durability, lifting strength and striking strength, there is enough granularity in how characters are portrayed to make this work.

The core idea remains the same. Instead of characters being pulled into massive scaling chains that don't reflect their own portrayal, they now scale to their own feats and to characters they have a consistent narrative relationship with. This doesn't isolate characters from each other, it just means that a character on the periphery of a scaling chain who rarely interacts with its backbone stops inheriting stats that have nothing to do with them.

Spoiler: proposal

A character's primary source material is defined by the books in which they hold notable plot relevance. This includes solo runs, team books, and events where the character plays a significant role, not merely appears incidentally.

Particular care must be taken when a character would scale to a feat that doesn't reflect their own portrayal, especially in cases where they have no consistent narrative relationship with the character who performed the feat. Cross-scaling is only applicable as primary justification when the narrative explicitly frames the characters as comparable, not merely because they interact or appear together incidentally.

Anti-feats are part of a character's consistent portrayal and should be weighed alongside positive feats when determining their statistics.

These guidelines apply specifically to Attack Potency, Durability, Lifting Strength and Striking Strength. Speed is excluded from this framework given the lack of meaningful granularity in how Marvel and DC portray it at most tiers.

Characters whose primary showcase comes from team books or events due to having little to no meaningful solo history scale normally from those appearances.

They scale to whoever they're scaling already cause this won't change. I've been clear about what changes: Characters don't need to share a scaling chain, and upgrading or downgrading a character shouldn't affect different characters that have interacted once during a crossover, which is what I want to "remove", or at least, make it harder to scale based on one single, isolated interaction.

A real example would be if I upgrade Daredevil's AP to 9-A it shouldn't affect Gambit, and by consequence Fantomex, and then Mystique, and then Nightcrawler and then whoever scales to him. This is the current scaling chain we have. Just like they don't scale off of Daredevil's Class 5 and K feats in LS.

I actually want Armor to comment again so he can express himself before we continue.

fine with this

 

[Antvasima]

I don’t. Open your eyes dude characters literally can’t have their shit indexed the way it currently is.

I obviously agree about that we are chain-scaling too much, which creates enormously inflated statistics for characters with enormously lower "pushing themselves" feats than what we index them with, but would prefer if you and Impress can figure out a more workable system through a collaborative discussion, possibly via private messages, as you both seem to have good common sense regarding Marvel Comics, but different approaches to solutions.

 

[M3X_2.0]

I obviously agree about that we are chain-scaling too much, which creates enormously inflated statistics for characters with enormously lower "pushing themselves" feats than what we index them with, but would prefer if you and Impress can figure out a more workable system through a collaborative discussion, possibly via private messages, as you both seem to have good common sense regarding Marvel Comics, but different approaches to solutions.

I can do that, I just don’t agree with rushing this thread.

 

[Antvasima]

Thank you very much for being reasonable.

Is that acceptable for you as well, @The_Impress ?

 

[NaturalDestroyer]

On a practical level, how would most profiles change if the proposal were accepted?

 

[KLOL506]

Guys, chill out, no need to get heated.