Naruto Uzumaki vs Son Goku Part 2 [13-2-0]

[Fallen_Angelicx]

What causes the lack of detection? The life force is removed, and that causes a change in energy levels that Goku can detect. If Isshiki couldn't, that's an anti-feat for him and nothing else.

If his life force was removed, he'd be dead as that's what happened 30 minutes after the beating and stalling so thats an invalid point, it didnt happen immediately but overtime. Rather, it works as a poison like I said, slowly accumulating until BM runs out. Isshiki not sensing that his life force was being drained isn't an overlook or an anti feat because its been known everyone in the verse can sense their own energy, especially their own chakra depletions

 

[Fallen_Angelicx]

We could raise a question, but ultimately, it'd be speculation, we could blame Isshiki's distraction and incompetence, or something else. Unless we have a mechanical reason why the life drain is undetectable, I don't see Goku just casually ignoring a sharp decline in his health from a few punches.

Invalid speculation. His life force as anyone else's within the verse literally determines whether they live or die. It is not an overlook in anyway. He was actively bleeding out and was eventually turned to dust after completely running out of life energy. As I said before, the ability acts like a poison without the enemy knowing which is essentially what occurred. By the time goku realizes his health bar is 20%, it'd be far too late because Kaioken x10 and x20 depleting his life force little by little when boosted by BM's own ability will have already done a greater deal than Isshiki's life force gradually running out on its own. Again, and you seem to have forgotten this, This won't be a solo accomplishment by Naruto alone, Goku's own transformation/technique is actively killing him aswell. Its like Inducing a crazy bleed effect in a video game on a move that deletes your health with every usage.

 

[Nonynho]

Welp, Goku does prefer CQC and could get this to be ranged if it gets too complicated, feels the life drain, etc. All leads me to believe he indeed has several conditions that if landed, immediately ends Naruto

But i do think Naruto's able to outsmart him (intelligence tiers diff), they have similar ages and not too distant accomplishments with great trainings to accompany those years of experience, so this difference should be enough for Naruto to make usage of his kit and make his few wincons more likely.
For that and for what i've been reading, i'll side with Naruto here winning 50,0001% of the time

 

[Saqphire]

Welp, Goku does prefer CQC and could get this to be ranged if it gets too complicated, feels the life drain, etc. All leads me to believe he indeed has several conditions that if landed, immediately ends Naruto

But i do think Naruto's able to outsmart him (intelligence tiers diff), they have similar ages and not too distant accomplishments with great trainings to accompany those years of experience, so this difference should be enough for Naruto to make usage of his kit and make his few wincons more likely.
For that and for what i've been reading, i'll side with Naruto here winning 50,0001% of the time

He's not gonna count your vote tho cuz he doesn't think that's a "valid" reason

 

[FARLANDER3305]

My understanding
They both are close to each other in terms of AP
Goku has better skill
Naruto has better ANA/PRE
goku has higher AP with kamehameha
Naruto has hax to screw over Goku
Goku has range
Naruto has Ls
They pretty much punch and kick fighters
At start they clash
İ can see both of them grabbing each other( Naruto does this for garantied hırs and baryon hax so he does this a lot and Goku will go for the counter )
İf goku is grabbed he is done cuz Naruto punching his face would make his cranium become a melted cheese
İf goku gets grabbed ( he will eventually Naruto do this cuz he doesnt want isshiki to get too far away he is on Timer so he grabs gokus arm like he did with isshiki and gives goku a little shoulder push like he did with isshiki and because goku isnt ishhiki he will lose his arm or his life depending on what Naruto choose to attack

 

[Nonynho]

He's not gonna count your vote tho cuz he doesn't think that's a "valid" reason

well, if he thinks FRA are too random, i expect respect towards me going up and stating in two paragraphs why i think he wins lol

 

[Saqphire]

well, if he thinks FRA are too random, i expect respect towards me going up and stating in two paragraphs why i think he wins lol

He didnt think the reason the FRAs even happened was valid and thus he didnt count the votes

 

[Fallen_Angelicx]

Welp, Goku does prefer CQC and could get this to be ranged if it gets too complicated,

Now here's the thing i find kinda silly. Goku does indeed have Interplanetary range but its not like hes gonna attack Naruto from Space. Naruto with his Thousand Of Kilometers range and Thousand of Rasengan barrage can clear the whole surface and atmosphere and will eventually catch Goku no matter where he goes. Not to mention, their speeds are able to clear the planet in less than seconds. It means nowhere Goku goes, Naruto wouldn't be able to. And if he goes to space somehow, That's Naruto's Favorite place for oxygen.

 

[Fallen_Angelicx]

Now here's the thing i find kinda silly. Goku does indeed have Interplanetary range but its not like hes gonna attack Naruto from Space. Naruto with his Thousand Of Kilometers range and Thousand of Rasengan barrage can clear the whole surface and atmosphere and will eventually catch Goku no matter where he goes. Not to mention, their speeds are able to clear the planet in less than seconds. It means nowhere Goku goes, Naruto wouldn't be able to. And if he goes to space somehow, That's Naruto's Favorite place for oxygen.

Like what is Goku gonna do with Interplanetary range, if he can't move outside the planet. It helps him in no way, while Naruto's range helps him with Goku's mobility and teleportation shenanigans.

 

[Mommyleona]

He didnt think the reason the FRAs even happened was valid and thus he didnt count the votes

he aint the op

 

[FARLANDER3305]

Naruto FRA THEN

 

[GodlyCharmander]

it didnt happen immediately but overtime

That's fine, I'm arguing Goku has the tools to detect that "poison". That's in his arsenal, and the profile doesn't say anything about "negation of extraordinary perception".

He's not gonna count your vote tho cuz he doesn't think that's a "valid" reason

Giving an actual reason to vote is valid, plus I'm not the OP, pay attention. Literally none of you did that because no reasons for Naruto winning were ven debated yet, they were just listing wincons.

 

[GodlyCharmander]

Here's my scenario where Goku could win, and I'll grant, Naruto and Goku being close in skill with hand to hand advantage to Goku, and Naruto has danger sense.

• They go at each other. Both favor hand to hand combat.
• Goku has an advantage but Naruto is landing hits.
• Goku immediately feels like his life force is being drained with each hit and backs away, be it via a kiai attack or teleportation.
• If Naruto tries to rush him, Goku will keep his distance and use Ki Blasts.
• Goku either uses the Kaioken x20 to rush Naruto and not let him land any more hits, as he would have studied Naruto's style from that brief exchange, using both the speed advantage and the analysis to beat Naruto down.
• If Kaioken x20 is activated, and Goku has keen sense, the tails wouldn't be able to grab him (slow, massive, changes the air).
• Naruto is either outlasted out of BM, or Goku can land a charged ki attack which would one shot Naruto.
• Baryon Mode also gets progressively weaker as time goes on, so the gap in speed would only widen.

I think Goku wins most of the time if they're both In Character. I genuinely vote Goku for those reasons.

Also how come no one provided a counter for Goku just going Kaioken x20 and just outspeeding Naruto in every way. How does Naruto even deal with that?

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

A two times speed advantage is not bypassing a dude with better predictive capabilities than Rinnegan Sasuke.

 

[GodlyCharmander]

A two times speed advantage is not bypassing a dude with better predictive capabilities than Rinnegan Sasuke.

It is if said dude is more skilled than Naruto and Rinnegan Sasuke. Also stop pretending predictive abilities means a speed advantage, or that bypassing said ability magically makes you ignore speed advantage. A 2x speed gap with somewhat superior skill is going to guarantee Goku dodges anything Naruto throws at him, and make him hit Naruto more easily. Plus Naruto has been hit by characters without precog too, so skill definitely still works against him.

 

[MannyQ361]

Assuming Alive Goku is being used, would Goku being Dead affect Naruto's life drain?

 

[Fallen_Angelicx]

Also how come no one provided a counter for Goku just going Kaioken x20 and just outspeeding Naruto in every way. How does Naruto even deal with that?

• Passive Life Manipulation and Durability Negation (Was able to shorten Isshiki's remaining 20-hour lifespan down to 30 minutes, then later on to less than 10 minutes. Anyone who touches Naruto or is touched by him starts to lose their lifespan. Although Isshiki didn’t take a fatal hit, he suffered internal bleeding and coughed up blood due to Naruto’s attacks)

What's he gonna do with the speec advange? Touch Naruto?, Naruto simply goes on the defensive and does a very Big Rasengan that nukes the whole area. Repeatedly and endlessly if he has to until Goku quits trying his attempts.

 

[Nonynho]

How does Naruto even deal with that?

2 different ways of analytical prediction and Enhanced Senses (which should still be applicable since he's dealt with faster people more than once), Limited Invulnerability, Limited Intangibility and considerable (not huge, but definetely significant) outsmarting should help

It is if said dude is more skilled than Naruto and Rinnegan Sasuke.

I've spoken a bit about it, Naruto should be able to outsmart by not a wide margin, but definetely neither side is significantly outskilling the other, no

 

[Fallen_Angelicx]

Plus Naruto has been hit by characters without precog too, so skill definitely still works against him.

Isn't that every character including Goku.

 

[Fallen_Angelicx]

I've spoken a bit about it, Naruto should be able to outsmart by not a wide margin, but definetely neither side is significantly outskilling the other, no

Yeah, I don't think the skill difference, especially with this version of Goku is between a baby and a 6'10 Military Official. At worst and at best, They're comparable to Goku being more skilled.

 

[GodlyCharmander]

2 different ways of analytical prediction and Enhanced Senses (which should still be applicable since he's dealt with faster people more than once), Limited Invulnerability, Limited Intangibility and considerable (not huge, but definetely significant) outsmarting should help.

Goku can adapt to basically any trick used against him and develop a technique to counter it. Teleportation, Solar Flare, Zanzoken which works against people who can sense ki, everything in his arsenal would become twice as much of a problem with a 2x gap. Goku has beaten people with great analytical prediction before, even people with his own level of it. The enhanced senses only help if he has time to react, and in close quarters? I'm not sure that's possible.

Also, Goku could use instant transmission Kamehameha, which dwarfs his own level of speed and reactions.

I've spoken a bit about it, Naruto should be able to outsmart by not a wide margin, but definetely neither side is significantly outskilling the other, no

I'm talking about hand to hand combat exclusively. In terms of Taijutsu alone, Goku should have an advantage. Couple that with a x2 speed amp, and Goku is not getting hit.

 

[GodlyCharmander]

What's he gonna do with the speec advange? Touch Naruto?, Naruto simply goes on the defensive and does a very Big Rasengan that nukes the whole area. Repeatedly and endlessly if he has to until Goku quits trying his attempts.

Naruto is on a 5 minute timer... He's not spamming anything.

Goku can instant transmission out of it, or instant transmission Kamehameha to one shot him.

 

[R81handman]

Naruto for the reasons I stated and FRA.

 

[FARLANDER3305]

Naruto is on a 5 minute timer... He's not spamming anything.

Goku can instant transmission out of it, or instant transmission Kamehameha to one shot him.

İf he sees goku running he spams rasengan bruh

 

[GodlyCharmander]

İf he sees goku running he spams rasengan bruh

And how is he catching up to a guy twice as fast as him?

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

Naruto still has Shunshin, allowing him to go FTE compared to his normal speed.

 

[FARLANDER3305]

Goku can adapt to basically any trick used against him and develop a technique to counter it. Teleportation, Solar Flare, Zanzoken which works against people who can sense ki, everything in his arsenal would become twice as much of a problem with a 2x gap. Goku has beaten people with great analytical prediction before, even people with his own level of it. The enhanced senses only help if he has time to react, and in close quarters? I'm not sure that's possible.

Also, Goku could use instant transmission Kamehameha, which dwarfs his own level of speed and reactions.


I'm talking about hand to hand combat exclusively. In terms of Taijutsu alone, Goku should have an advantage. Couple that with a x2 speed amp, and Goku is not getting hit.

Naruto is not getting touched either he has litterally better ana PRE 2x speed diff doesnt Even get goku to land a Blow of hım
He can use subsutition he litterally blitzed the Shit out of isshiki despite hım having byakugan and Sukunahikona
He appeared instantly after isshiki isshiki can only perceive him
Goku skill slop gets insta demolished by the fact that Naruto dealed people with far better analytical abilities than goku
Goku s only win con is Outlast hım lmfao Even assuming Naruto is not grappling hım which he does if goku tried to punch and Naruto caught hım İTS over cuz Ls diff so high that if goku trying to escape he accidentaly tear his own arm off and then İTS geniunely over for hım

 

[Fallen_Angelicx]

Naruto is on a 5 minute timer... He's not spamming anything

0 Correlation.. no, Negative Correlation. Naruto as we know has all the chakra in the world for those 5 minutes. Not only is he not running out of it but that will literally be his tactic to an opponent running away or trying to evade his life force draining fist Kurama is putting his all into; Do whatever it takes to touch them, even by a graze. And let's not act like Naruto isn't known for spamming attacks, especially Rasengan's, Bigger Rasengan's and Rasengan Barrage's that have 2x AP with Thousands Of Kilometers Range.

Goku can instant transmission out of it, or instant transmission Kamehameha to one shot him.

More nukes. And he'll just predict his attack and use Chakra Arms for better malnuverability to dodge.

 

[Fallen_Angelicx]

Naruto is not getting touched either he has litterally better ana PRE 2x speed diff doesnt Even get goku to land a Blow of hım
He can use subsutition he litterally blitzed the Shit out of isshiki despite hım having byakugan and Sukunahikona
He appeared instantly after isshiki isshiki can only perceive him
Goku skill slop gets insta demolished by the fact that Naruto dealed people with far better analytical abilities than goku
Goku s only win con is Outlast hım lmfao Even assuming Naruto is not grappling hım which he does if goku tried to punch and Naruto caught hım İTS over cuz Ls diff so high that if goku trying to escape he accidentaly tear his own arm off and then İTS geniunely over for hım

Oh yeah, Substitution Jutsu and Shushin. Naruto has multiple ways to evade

 

[GodlyCharmander]

Naruto as we know has all the chakra in the world for those 5 minutes

Naruto literally got weaker as Baryon Mode progressed just by using one rasengan and fist fighting.

More nukes. And he'll just predict his attack and use Chakra Arms for better malnuverability to dodge.

None would hit. What do you mean predict, Goku has far higher speed.

 

[GodlyCharmander]

Naruto is not getting touched either he has litterally better ana PRE 2x speed diff doesnt Even get goku to land a Blow of hım
He can use subsutition he litterally blitzed the Shit out of isshiki despite hım having byakugan and Sukunahikona
He appeared instantly after isshiki isshiki can only perceive him
Goku skill slop gets insta demolished by the fact that Naruto dealed people with far better analytical abilities than goku
Goku s only win con is Outlast hım lmfao Even assuming Naruto is not grappling hım which he does if goku tried to punch and Naruto caught hım İTS over cuz Ls diff so high that if goku trying to escape he accidentaly tear his own arm off and then İTS geniunely over for hım

They have EQUALIZED SPEED, and Goku can boos that to x2.

Isshiki was getting BLITZED by Naruto, using him is bogus.

 

[GodlyCharmander]

Seriously where did this delusion that fighting precog of EQUAL SPEED makes you immune to MASSIVE speed advantages?

And don't say it's not a huge speed advantage, because it is. 2x speed means every move you do reaches the same range of your opponent in HALF the time.

Bro, precognition doesn't make you physically faster.

That's the whole point people keep skating past. Prediction and reaction are two completely different things. Naruto can know the attack is coming with perfect clarity and it still doesn't matter if his body literally cannot move fast enough to do anything about it. That's not a theory, that's just how speed works. Speed directly invalidates precog past a certain threshold and a 2x gap is not a small margin, that is an enormous physical deficit.

And here's the thing nobody wants to say out loud, "better predictive capabilities than Rinnegan Sasuke" is a massive claim that's doing a lot of heavy lifting here with zero elaboration on what that actually means in practice against a 2x speed gap. Like okay, he has great precog. Great. He predicted the attack perfectly. He still gets hit because his limbs don't move at twice the speed they moved before. Knowing something is happening and physically stopping it are not the same skill.

You don't beat a 2x speed advantage with a crystal ball. What are people saying, man. We're just claiming some incorrect scaling.

 

[Nonynho]

I'm talking about hand to hand combat exclusively. In terms of Taijutsu alone, Goku should have an advantage. Couple that with a x2 speed amp, and Goku is not getting hit.

Taijutsu is a fighting style, the CQC technique used for the verse, so i don't think "in terms of Taijutsu" is making sense
And if sheer martial arts knowledge were the thing that counted for saying someone outskills, Maito Guy, the taijutsu fella, because of basically the best Naruto Shippuden scene, should outskill Goku because the latter ain't making this kind of damage to Madara, as Night Guy/8th gate did

 

[Fallen_Angelicx]

Naruto literally got weaker as Baryon Mode progressed just by using one rasengan and fist fighting.

Getting weaker ≠ Chakra depletion. He got "weaker" because Kurama was burning fuel (life force) for the form and it was running out. It doesn't matter anyway, because are you telling me Goku whole tactic will be Spamming Super attacks Xenoverse 2 style for 5 minutes?

 

[GodlyCharmander]

Taijutsu is a fighting style, the CQC technique used for the verse, so i don't think "in terms of Taijutsu" is making sense
And if sheer martial arts knowledge were the thing that counted for saying someone outskills, Maito Guy, the taijutsu fella, because of basically the best Naruto Shippuden scene, should outskill Goku because the latter ain't making this kind of damage to Madara, as Night Guy/8th gate did

Guy outsped and damaged Madara... Also what, yes, Goku would one shot Madara before he can blink.

I'm sorry but that comparison doesn't make sense. Guy should outskill Goku in hand to hand combat because... Guy blitzed and damaged a character Goku can beat while blindfolded?

 

[Fallen_Angelicx]

Bro, precognition doesn't make you physically faster.

You know, the whole point of Precognition is to like... Know what your opponent is gonna do before they do it right..? So even if you're fast, one with precog can still keep up because they'll counter your moves. Not your speed. These are not the same.

 

[GodlyCharmander]

Getting weaker ≠ Chakra depletion.

I don't really mind your opinion, the page says he was getting weaker.

He got "weaker" because Kurama was burning fuel (life force) for the form and it was running out. It doesn't matter anyway, because are you telling me Goku whole tactic will be Spamming Super attacks Xenoverse 2 style for 5 minutes?

I literally told you how the fight would go. Goku has so many ways to outspeed and one shot Naruto while keeping range, it's insane.

 

[R81handman]

Naruto literally got weaker as Baryon Mode progressed just by using one rasengan and fist fighting.

A double rasengan that doubles your AP and we have to assume that this is a fresh Naruto who did not get speared by a ton of Isshiki chakra draining rods that knocked him out of SPSM. Naruto would have a higher stamina in this fight in Baryon Mode.

None would hit. What do you mean predict, Goku has far higher speed.

You acting like Shuinshin is not in Naruto arsenal to boost his speed. far higher speed when it just a 2X when shienehin is FTE and Naruto had been fighting precog users all his life and has multiple forms of pre cog.

And Goku has always started fights with hand to hand. this is not blood lusted Goku. And he won't notice his life span being drained away until the Kaioken is gone. BM is basically Kaioken kryptionite.

 

[GodlyCharmander]

You know, the whole point of Precognition is to like... Know what your opponent is gonna do before they do it right..? So even if you're fast, one with precog can still keep up because they'll counter your moves. Not your speed. These are not the same.

You know that Naruto doesn't have precognition, he has danger sense and ana pre, right? He doesn't see the future, he just knows when something's coming, he will not be able to dodge something if he doesn't have the speed for it. Brother it's a 2x gap in speed, are we trolling??? If Goku and Naruto are exchanging blows, and Goku throws a punch, it will take HALF the time it would take for Naruto to land the same punch back.

 

[FARLANDER3305]

And how is he catching up to a guy twice as fast as him?

İf Yours mentioning Naruto

Naruto literally got weaker as Baryon Mode progressed just by using one rasengan and fist fighting.



None would hit. What do you mean predict, Goku has far higher speed.

Bro sasuke is subrel with MS and he reacted to sol attack thats like

They have EQUALIZED SPEED, and Goku can boos that to x2.

Isshiki was getting BLITZED by Naruto, using him is bogus.

Same isshiki who constanly using sukunahikona which is atleast 10 times AMP and Even sasuke and Naruto can react to rods accordingly in sixth paths i am sorry but isshiki barraged Naruto with it and it did nothing Naruto biltzed hım before he can use sukunahikona bruh are we serious are we gonna explain how ana PRE works
Aoe rasengan barrage would litterally hit Naruto
You know Aoe right İTS area of effection so it will hit hım
Boosting your Combat speed isnt gonna save you from guy using subsutition to you and catch you plus subsutition is litterally Perception blitz level so Naruto is atleast 4 times advantage on that