The "Weakest" Pacifist vs The "Strongest" Pacifist [GRACE]

[ShionAH]

"VS"



Arc 5-8 Subaru
Speed equalized if that even matters
SBA

Subaru: 3 (@SatellaTheWoE, @MasterOwOgay, @Doggo)

Charlie:

Inconclusive: 7 (@ShionAH, @Mickey1940, @EnderLord8, @Steve1775, @Anonymous_Learner, @DarkLock92, @Dragonite007)​

 

[Anonymous_Learner]

put ts in unequalized speed cuz wdym this guy got sub rela reactions and Perceptions

 

[ShionAH]

put ts in unequalized speed cuz wdym this guy got sub rela reactions and Perceptions

And yet we removed the consistenty FTL scaling with 3 onscreen feats for Hellaverse.

 

[EnderLord8]

put ts in unequalized speed cuz wdym this guy got sub rela reactions and Perceptions

He has to have it, because otherwise he would die about 100 times more than he already does.

 

[Dark_Soul20189]

Actually, this will be interesting and very fun to see, well done @ShionAH

Following.

 

[ShionAH]

I see no one noticed the suspicious rules

 

[Crimsonobu]

"VS"



Arc 1 Subaru before meeting Emilia and Charlie before she met Vaggie
Speed equalized if that even matters
SBA​

Arc 1 Subaru before meeting Emilia means he doesn't have shamak or invisible providence no? Very weird condition

 

[Dragonite007]

Wouldn't this be a match of who has better Social Influencing, since no one can put the other down?

 

[ShionAH]

Wouldn't this be a match of who has better Social Influencing, since no one can put the other down?

I assume it would just be a simple incon like this match then, although the rules are a meme rn so let me fix it

 

[Dark_Soul20189]

Arc 1 Subaru before meeting Emilia means he doesn't have shamak or invisible providence no? Very weird condition

Watch out, Frisk, Pride Subaru is about to come for you

 

[Anonymous_Learner]

aside from Subrela shenanigans, this guy scales to 14.05824 Megajoules while charlie upscales 188.61 Kilojoules meaning there's a 74.5360267x ap and dura difference, well over the oneshot value. However, Luckily enough for charlie, she carries around a tier 5 shield that she can use to fly and, regardless of the scale use, will Mr. "Aura Monster's" all break invincible style when he hits it (something that has happened in the hellaverse by the way).

I'll get more into a further breakdown but this is looking like a nasty matchup but nothing Subaru ain't used to

And yet we removed the consistenty FTL scaling with 3 onscreen feats for Hellaverse.

1 feat that the character "scaling to" got hit by. Also, i don't rep this guys verse. If Sub rela is inconsistent for bro, i'll look into it and make a crt about it. It's that simple.
I'd remove scaling for any verse if it sucked, hellaverse just has my attention right now

He has to have it, because otherwise he would die about 100 times more than he already does.

i guess br

 

[ShionAH]

I'll get more into a further breakdown but this is looking like a nasty matchup but nothing Subaru ain't used to

This is just a SI fight anyway, both of them are more peaceful than violent

1 feat that the character "scaling to" got hit by.

3 feats, Emily, Alastor and Baxter.

And no, you yourself know DAMN WELL that Emily flying ACROSS Hell, saving Alastor and then turning around fully before it GRAZES HER WING is FAR different than being a trillion times slower. Doesn't matter if it tagged her wings, if I outrun a bullet save someone and turn around only for the bullet to just hit my shoulder, I'd be fast.

 

[Anonymous_Learner]

This is just a SI fight anyway, both of them are more peaceful than violent

oh...i thought they were fighting fighting. Hmm, i've gotta take a look at Subaru's feats but Charlie's best SI feats are via song so, unless she starts sinking, she's likely not doing much

3 feats, Emily, Alastor and Baxter.

Outlier 1st, Alastor moving out the way is aim dodging+Got blitzed by something immensely slower than 1.7c in being lightning so outlier again, and baxter didn't dodge M.O.L at all, wdym

And no, you yourself know DAMN WELL that Emily flying ACROSS Hell, saving Alastor and then turning around fully before it GRAZES HER WING is FAR different than being a trillion times slower. Doesn't matter if it tagged her wings, if I outrun a bullet save someone and turn around only for the bullet to just hit my shoulder, I'd be fast.

Outlier+Why did you get by the bullet if your so fast.
TS just the hakari lightnig feat

 

[DarkLock92]

oh...i thought they were fighting fighting. Hmm, i've gotta take a look at Subaru's feats but Charlie's best SI feats are via song so, unless she starts sinking, she's likely not doing much

Good thing she loves singing and will 100% do so in character then

 

[ShionAH]

Outlier 1st

For now

Alastor moving out the way is aim dodging+Got blitzed by something immensely slower than 1.7c in being lightning so outlier again

It shouldn't even count as Lighting even then theres only 1 MSH feat but more than 1 FTL feat, so thats the inconsistent part.

and baxter didn't dodge M.O.L at all, wdym

He has a Rel-FTL feat.

Why did you get by the bullet if your so fast.

Because I had to go a distance, save someone and turned around before I noticed I would be hit.

Why did I move fast enough to get there, save someone and turn fully around if I am so slow.

 

[Anonymous_Learner]

For now

*till season 5

It shouldn't even count as Lighting even then theres only 1 MSH feat but more than 1 FTL feat, so thats the inconsistent part.

It has 5 examples of being lightning and accepted by staff by being lightning, no inconsistency. Vox>Kashimo

He has a Rel-FTL feat.

This again?

Why did I move fast enough to get there, save someone and turn fully around if I am so slow.

You wouldn't get hit cuz you're the goat.
Emily got hit cuz she's not that fast

 

[ShionAH]

It has 5 examples of being lightning and accepted by staff by being lightning, no inconsistency. Vox>Kashimo

Not a single staff replied to my arguments, because I don't matter obviously. Like always. I just can't believe it was removed because of literal "uhh duh it outlier". Just.... pure hatred.

 

[Anonymous_Learner]

Not a single staff replied to my arguments, because I don't matter obviously.

You DO matter. Sometimes that's just how it be here.

 

[Anonymous_Learner]

Anyway, sidetangent aside, What's Subaru's best SI feats

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

Anyway, sidetangent aside, What's Subaru's best SI feats

He completely changed the atmosphere from pure despair and “I’m going to kill my neighbour” levels of hatred into an entire city full of people getting hopeful and hyped again. The scale was massive too, around 300k people iirc. A lot of people had already died, and a lot of people were affected by the authority's of wrath, gluttony and lust.

He also managed to get Beatrice out of the Forbidden Library. Beako is a 400-year-old spirit who, throughout all those centuries, nobody was able to convince to leave that room. Not only did he get her to walk out, he even convinced her to abandon her contract with Echidna. For context, Beatrice literally preferred dying over breaking that contract.

And then there’s Rem. He managed to go from complete stranger to making her willing to devote herself and fall in love with him, all within basically a few days.



Then there is this:

• Social Influencing (Got almost half of a whole village to join in his aerobic exercises. Convinced the villagers of Arlam to evacuate with Emilia, despite their deep resentment for her. Convinced Beatrice to leave the mansion, after multiple tries, despite nobody in 400 years being able to do so, and it being impossible for a human. Subaru is very skilled at getting little girls to like him. Subaru in less then a week was able to convince all 600 Gladiators from the Gladiator Island Ginunhive to join him and rebel against the Empire)

 

[Anonymous_Learner]

Alright then, i see him being more able to SI Charlie than Charlie SI him

 

[DarkLock92]

Snip

Yikes, that's a lot.
Leaning towards Subaru

 

[MasterOwOgay]

Subaru is very skilled at getting little girls to like him.

True!

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

Subaru vs an overpowered loli that he cant beat with his haxes might actually be a real matchup that i could see working out

 

[StrymULTRA]

No Frisk huh?

 

[ShionAH]

Anyways so this would just be incon then? Similar to how Frisk vs Subaru went. Both of them become friends and thats it

 

[ShionAH]

No Frisk huh?

I was actually thinking of Frisk vs Charlie right after this lol

 

[StrymULTRA]

I was actually thinking of Frisk vs Charlie right after this lol

Frisk's SI actually grants them the W given that their Mercyfying makes the opponent give up thus self-incap, js.

 

[MasterOwOgay]

Anyways so this would just be incon then? Similar to how Frisk vs Subaru went. Both of them become friends and thats it

Its a win for whoever manages to SI the other, in this case Subaru seems to have the advantage so it did be a win for him

 

[DarkLock92]

Subaru is very skilled at getting little girls to like him.

 

[ShionAH]

Frisk's SI actually grants them the W given that their Mercyfying makes the opponent give up thus self-incap, js.

So its a stomp damn, anyways I can list Charlies SI feats give me a min

 

[ShionAH]

Frisk's SI actually grants them the W given that their Mercyfying makes the opponent give up thus self-incap, js.

So its a stomp?

Anyways I will list Charlie’s SI feats, she should have some good stuff I think?

 

[StrymULTRA]

So its a stomp?

Anyways I will list Charlie’s SI feats, she should have some good stuff I think?

Unrelated to this thread lol.

 

[ShionAH]

• Convinced Alastor to work at the Hotel like a normal employee without making any deals
• Conviced the ENTIRETY of Pride Ring (Millions to Billions) that Vox was the strongest Sinner in Hell just by saying it once
• Convinced the Cannibals to help her against the Exorcist (They wanted to eat the Angels so she didn't give them any motives but they knew that the Angels were unharmable and unstoppable, yet Charlie was able to make them trust her that they can win the battle)
• Convinced once against ALL OF HELL with Emily's help to stop Might of Lilith which included many selfish, anarchist people. Remember they could have tried running except for the Vees yet they all trusted her enough to stop and help
• Turned Vaggie, a former Exorcist Angel who killed thousands Sinner mercilessly into the Hotel's manager that works specifically to save them
• She was convincing Heaven that Sinners can be redeemed until Sera shut it down and Adam kicked her out
• Almost convinced Sinners that they can and should try redemption until she lost her main evidence later convinced hundreds to thousands or more of them to join the Hotel. (Remember these guys are all terrible people that were laughing at the idea of redemption or even trying it at all until she came around)

I think thats all I got?

 

[ShionAH]

Unrelated to this thread lol.

What?

 

[StrymULTRA]

What?

I mean, it's more related to the Frisk stuff no?

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

• Convinced Alastor to work at the Hotel like a normal employee without making any deals
• Conviced the ENTIRETY of Pride Ring (Millions to Billions) that Vox was the strongest Sinner in Hell just by saying it once
• Convinced the Cannibals to help her against the Exorcist (They wanted to eat the Angels so she didn't give them any motives but they knew that the Angels were unharmable and unstoppable, yet Charlie was able to make them trust her that they can win the battle)
• Convinced once against ALL OF HELL with Emily's help to stop Might of Lilith which included many selfish, anarchist people. Remember they could have tried running except for the Vees yet they all trusted her enough to stop and help
• Turned Vaggie, a former Exorcist Angel who killed thousands Sinner mercilessly into the Hotel's manager that works specifically to save them
• She was convincing Heaven that Sinners can be redeemed until Sera shut it down and Adam kicked her out
• Almost convinced Sinners that they can and should try redemption until she lost her main evidence later convinced hundreds to thousands or more of them to join the Hotel. (Remember these guys are all terrible people that were laughing at the idea of redemption or even trying it at all until she came around)

I think thats all I got?

These are good feats, but getting Beatrice on his side is honestly far more impressive. It’s verbatim stated that what Subaru accomplished with her was considered impossible for a human to do, especially for someone she had only known for a few months.


And those few months are basically nothing compared to Beatrice’s 400 year lifespan. Despite that, he still managed to reach her emotionally, convince her to leave the Forbidden Library, and make her abandon a contract she valued more than her own life.

Charlie Morningstar is literal Hell royalty, so she already has authority and influence over people by default. Her status alone makes others more willing to listen to her, meaning those feats wouldn’t translate nearly as well onto people who don’t already know or respect her position.

Subaru, on the other hand, didn’t have that advantage.

During Arc 5, when the whole 300k people feat happened, he technically was somewhat known because of his accomplishments in Arc 3, but the important part is that he never actually revealed who he was until the very end of the speech. To everyone listening, he was basically just some random guy speaking over the broadcast.

So he managed to completely change the mentality of an entire city, restore hope, and get everyone fired up while effectively being treated as a complete stranger.

 

[DarkLock92]

Charlie Morningstar is literal Hell royalty, so she already has authority and influence over people by default. Her status alone makes others more willing to listen to her, meaning those feats wouldn’t translate nearly as well onto people who don’t already know or respect her position.

I'd like to point out that sinners absolutely do not respect the royal family (besides Lilith). They clown on Lucifer (and Charlie as well) all the time

 

[Anonymous_Learner]

• Convinced Alastor to work at the Hotel like a normal employee without making any deals

It seems like he was gonna do that anyway cuz of rosie

• Conviced the ENTIRETY of Pride Ring (Millions to Billions) that Vox was the strongest Sinner in Hell just by saying it once
• Convinced the Cannibals to help her against the Exorcist (They wanted to eat the Angels so she didn't give them any motives but they knew that the Angels were unharmable and unstoppable, yet Charlie was able to make them trust her that they can win the battle)
• Convinced once against ALL OF HELL with Emily's help to stop Might of Lilith which included many selfish, anarchist people. Remember they could have tried running except for the Vees yet they all trusted her enough to stop and help

pretty good

• Turned Vaggie, a former Exorcist Angel who killed thousands Sinner mercilessly into the Hotel's manager that works specifically to save them

I meaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaan, is this really a feat for her? Vaggi herself stopped herself from killing a sinner child so it's not all that crazy

• She was convincing Heaven that Sinners can be redeemed until Sera shut it down and Adam kicked her out
• Almost convinced Sinners that they can and should try redemption until she lost her main evidence later convinced hundreds to thousands or more of them to join the Hotel. (Remember these guys are all terrible people that were laughing at the idea of redemption or even trying it at all until she came around)

I think thats all I got?

very nice

 

[ShionAH]

It seems like he was gonna do that anyway cuz of rosie

Its way too much in the theory side of things to use for me, who knows what the deal is

Vaggi herself stopped herself from killing a sinner child so it's not all that crazy

Yeah a child, that just means she had some good in her unlike like Lute but she still slaughtered literally thousands for fun. Yet now she is sitting around actively trying to save them