Deltarune: Chapter 5 (SPOILER!!) Discussion Thread

[Randomuser3412]

Being confident and doing the equivalent of trying to go Super Saiyan in a IRL fight are very different.

Especially when he does smart thing by forcing the Knight into a battle to prevent them from escaping the scene prior.

When Ralsei brings it up, Flowery seems confident he can beat the Knight, but he seems quite perturbed when the Knight ignores his "fake statistics," it's just so extremely obvious that they're NOT completely meaningless.

 

[Edutyn]

Re-watching this and the knight literally cut the 9s and turn them into 0s (?). If they were really fake, the kinght wouldn't even have had to bother doing anything or really would nedd to cut the 9s, since it wouldn't have made her flinch.

 

[Randomuser3412]

Does anyone have a clip of Justice busting that stone block?

Here y'are, pardner

Spoiler: Let justice be done

 

[Da3ggman]

Here y'are, pardner

Spoiler: Let justice be done

Thanks bro

 

[Echidnacodefan2512]

Tier 4 Deltarune continues to be a joke I can’t even anymore lmao

Size of the Green Sun

Thought I'd do this since Homestuck is ending and we know it has the mass of 2 universes. This will also be (surprise) a fairly lazy calc. One end assuming it has the density of our Sun (it does look like the sun), and the other assuming it's a...

www.fanverse.org

Since it homestuck reference and the dark world is a ilusion...

Also you probally can do it

 

[Thelastmlg]

yo i just beat the chapter on normal and weird, gonna do violent today

overall i had issues with the writting choices here and there, though i still would put it on a 7.5-8/10, but is a chapter that i can def say the gameplay had to do the heavy lifting ngl

anyway what are the main topics scaling wise

 

[Randomuser3412]

anyway what are the main topics scaling wise

Flowery's "fake statistics" doing real damage or not, the sun being real or not and probably Yellow destroying a stone block (though, that one's less important)

Spoiler: WEIRD ROUTE

Kris, have your body back. I don't want it anymore. I just want my Goner. Leave me alone, Noelle. I want no part in this anymore.

 

[Ghengiroo115]

People still calling the Knight a cutscene merchant for how they killed Flowery as if he didn’t literally drag them into a battle scene

 

[Randomuser3412]

What do people WANT the Knight to do? Either lose or pull a COTV Sans? There's seriously no difference between a forced loss in battle and a loss in a cutscene. It might as well just be a cutscene.
Anyway, King's backstory is cool. He's always been one of my favorite Darkners. You can sort of get what happened to him and the rest of the Card Kingdom from his battle dialogue, but it's nice to hear the full story.

 

[Jepilstiltskin]

Also Sans may actually be from a Weird Route timeline...

Yeah, the guy is obviously important, especially with the whole drawing thing. Not to mention the bread he gave us. The fact that it leaves crumbs could very well be intentional, potentially giving him a way to keep track of what Kris is doing or where they're going.

Maybe that's reading too much into it, but the game definitely seems to be drawing attention to details surrounding him. At the very least, it feels like he knows more than he's letting on.

This guy definitely knows something is up.

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

People still calling the Knight a cutscene merchant for how they killed Flowery as if he didn’t literally drag them into a battle scene

I meannnnnn notice how the Knight only pulled up after 6/7 of the flowers transformed back, this is because the Knight couldn't match Flowery at full friendship power

 

[XatorNova]

I finished both main route and weird route ch5 yesterday

Very excited to see where the weird route goes

also, dark crystal bosses ordered by difficulty imo

3 > 2 (side b) > 1 > 5 > 4

 

[Randomuser3412]

That's a nice list, but for me it goes
5 >>>>>> The Knight >= Shadow Mantle Holder >> Every other boss in the game

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

Difficulty wise because of THAT one specific attack 5 is honestly on par if not harder than Jevil for me
Also unless we're talking about a Mantle-less Knight, the Knight is probably easier than Jevil tbh. I beat them in 2 tries.

 

[Thelastmlg]

Flowery's "fake statistics" doing real damage or not, the sun being real or not and probably Yellow destroying a stone block (though, that one's less important)

Spoiler: WEIRD ROUTE

Kris, have your body back. I don't want it anymore. I just want my Goner. Leave me alone, Noelle. I want no part in this anymore.

i think the damage is real since the knighted bothered, the stats being fake is probably referring to them being forced on like ralsei said, as in, flowery wasn't supposed to be that strong but made himself be so

the sun's definitely not real tho, the only time they question it is a single line susie has with no answer, it also sets up and down as we walk around and finally one of the pink coins reveals that it is just Toby radiation fox disguised as it in the horizon in a homestuck reference

i'm curious if we can use the scenario changing in flowery's fight for anything, cuz either he changed it or teleported us and that huge kilometer tall planet off the castle

also i'm curious what the knight cutting the damage would be, "information manipulation-based power nullification"? could it also give them non-physical interaction? and what about Seth throwing their mercy gain away and nulling it?

 

[Randomuser3412]

Difficulty wise because of THAT one specific attack 5 is honestly on par if not harder than Jevil for me
Also unless we're talking about a Mantle-less Knight, the Knight is probably easier than Jevil tbh. I beat them in 2 tries.

I am absolutely NOT a fan of the Chapter 5 Shadow Crystal Boss's fight. It's easily, by far, no competition the hardest and longest boss in the game and feels like Sisyphus pushing the boulder up the mountain. Ironic because Seam said we should have no problems with this boss if you talk to them before the Festival

 

[Thelastmlg]

I meannnnnn notice how the Knight only pulled up after 6/7 of the flowers transformed back, this is because the Knight couldn't match Flowery at full friendship power

honestly flowery being that strong makes sense if you think about it, gerson was strong and he was just a reflection utilizing his dead ashes, the flowers meanwhile are alive and just need higher consciouness, the game even states that they are neither lightners or darkners, so the boost in power they got was probably a mix of what important darkners (chapter bosses) and lightners get, though it is weird that only flowery got said boost, i forgot if they explained it but i imagine the golden flower was the most cherished by asgore or something

 

[Randomuser3412]

honestly flowery being that strong makes sense if you think about it, gerson was strong and he was just a reflection utilizing his dead ashes, the flowers meanwhile are alive and just need higher consciouness, the game even states that they are neither lightners or darkners, so the boost in power they got was probably a mix of what important darkners (chapter bosses) and lightners get, though it is weird that only flowery got said boost, i forgot if they explained it but i imagine the golden flower was the most cherished by asgore or something

I think Ralsei kinda implies it's more of a knowledge and willpower combined thing that allows Flowery to do basically whatever he wants. Other than Flowery, Aqua seems like the strongest flower

 

[Ghengiroo115]

I meannnnnn notice how the Knight only pulled up after 6/7 of the flowers transformed back, this is because the Knight couldn't match Flowery at full friendship power

Unironically Omega Flowery is above the Knight right now based on raw definitive stats, since he's 7x 7-B while the Knight is just upscaling from baseline 7-B (and by proxy Kris is above them too LMAO)

I finished both main route and weird route ch5 yesterday

Very excited to see where the weird route goes

also, dark crystal bosses ordered by difficulty imo

3 > 2 (side b) > 1 > 5 > 4

It’s hard for me to rank the secret bosses since I’ve fought Jevil, Spamton NEO and the Knight soooo many times out of boredom (i had a ready-made save file specifically so I could rematch Jevil whenever I wanted).

If I was to try and remember how difficult they were before mastering them, I’d probably go with something like this:

1. The Knight
2. Pink
3. Aqua’s Dad/Jevil (I don’t remember who I found harder)
4. Hammer of Justice
5. Spamton NEO

Tbh it’s kinda hard to rank the Chapter 5 boss as well, since while I beat her first try i did it by spamming Revivemints (i usually never use items in battle in this game) just because it was taking so long and I was frustrated for a lot of non-game reasons. If I tried to beat her itemless like the other bosses idk how many tries it would take, but her bomberman attack is actually awful and I’m really bad at her tunnel attack, so I’ll give her second place.

As for chapter bosses (not the question but I feel like it):

1. Flowery
2. Tenna
3. Giga Queen
4. Titan
5. Queen
6. King

 

[Randomuser3412]

I'll give an actual list of (some) the (major) bosses' difficulties for me:

Spoiler: the list

1. Pink
2. The Knight
3. Shadow Mantle Holder
4. Flowery
5. Jevil
6. Spamton NEO
7. Hammer of Justice
8. Tenna
9. Aqua/Seth
10. Titan
11. Yellow/Blue
12. Green/Orange
13. Queen
14. King

 

[XatorNova]

Difficulty wise because of THAT one specific attack 5 is honestly on par if not harder than Jevil for me
Also unless we're talking about a Mantle-less Knight, the Knight is probably easier than Jevil tbh. I beat them in 2 tries.

which is the specific attack?
I think the only part of the fight that caught me off-guard was the very last attack where you have to move in the dating sim section through a maze-like section, but I still managed to survive that attack in one go, and cleared the fight in my second attempt

I had the Mantle against the Knight, but it took me like an hour to beat him

edit: some reasoning behind my ratings

3: obviously, even with the Mantle it took me an hour
2 (side b): you don't have the mannequin nor the frayed bowtie, plus kris takes all the punishment and has to do everything by himself, it took me half an hour to beat him; I assume in side a he may be the easiest
1: took me four attempts, you have the least amount of resources here
5: took me two attempts, generally easy until the very last part caught me off-guard, I didn't have protection against its element but it should balance out anyways in comparison to 4
4: took me two attempts, mantle pretty much makes the fight super easy

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

which is the specific attack?

Bomberman

 

[Randomuser3412]

Sans vs Edward Pillow Hands (Orange) would be a fight for the ages

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

Oh yeah the Petal Feather is an LS anti-feat, ain't it? The reason why they can jump so high with it is cause it makes them lighter.

 

[Zyurtunder13]

Ralsei is the only one of the gang who doesn't get a MERCY bar when Flowery uses his ACT. He's so pissed off. I love it.

No, he does get the Mercy bar, what are you talking about? Kris is the one that doesn't get one

 

[Randomuser3412]

No, he does get the Mercy bar, what are you talking about? Kris is the one that doesn't get one

Spoiler: nope

Nope. Ralsei does not get a MERCY bar, whereas Kris does.

 

[Randomuser3412]

Actually, just disregard that. I believe I was looking at it wrong. I apologize.

 

[Thelastmlg]

oh yeah i can see why you thought so, Kris is visibly affected and the bars' positions are kinda nebulous on who they belong to, is all about the number then

 

[FriendOfTheTeaParty]

I'm massively in favor of the fake stats being some sort of weird subjective reality/toon force deal thats fake in sense of not being part of regular statistics and being more forced. The whole knight battle doesnt make sense if you think the 999s are just inert nothings, when even Flowery was seemingly expecting them to work before the Knight turned them to 0s.

 

[Edutyn]

the devil works fast, but deltarune fans work faster

Spoiler: peak