The Great Odyssean Quest to Downgrade God of War ⌈Part 1/God Only Knows How Long This Will Take⌋

Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara · May 8, 2024

Did I underestimate my yapping, or overestimate the evaluation abilities on staff? Both? Probably both.

By the way, just a reminder that the alternative to me doing 50 threads in a row is me posting another 9000 word wall of text. This is the lesser of two evils.

Resistance to Power Absorption [Kratos]

As shown here, Kratos is able to push away an enemy before they can absorb his magic. However, if he does not push them away in time, his magic gets absorbed (you can also see this in the gif Deagonx provided below). This is explicitly not a resistance. He is clearly getting his powers absorbed. The only "resistance" is from Kratos just stopping someone from using their power against him at all, which is not how resistances work on this wiki. If it's really necessary, you can specify on Kratos' page that techniques requiring sustained contact are dangerous to use against Kratos because he can beat people up at close range.

Resistance to Poison & Acid [Kratos]

The supposed feat is of Kratos breaking free from the chimera’s acidic poison, but we can see that this isn’t the case. He is left dazed and damaged, and is only “freed” by the chimera’s snake head tossing him around like a ragdoll. Also, “breaking free” from poison isn’t a resistance. He is merely leaving an area suffused with poison, while he takes damage while in that area of effect. I don’t “resist fire manipulation” for walking out of a burning building.

Causality Manipulation [Kratos]

The Amulet of Uroborus can rewind and stop time. That’s it. It manipulates time. It does not directly influence past events, it just rewinds time.

Tally:

Agree: Deagonx, Mr. Bambu, Everything12, Maverick_Zero_X, AbaddonTheDisappointment (except Poison)
Disagree: AbaddonTheDisappointment (Poison)
Neutral: DarkDragonMedeus

KLOL506 · May 8, 2024

Honestly not even necessary to make this thread in the first place since the latter two got overwhelming rejection already, but at this point to cut the clutter I'm just gonna recommend this thread be moved to Staff Only. In the meanwhile, I'll type up a few responses to the parts I think is worth addressing.

Dark_Soul20189 · May 8, 2024

Just like in the old thread, even with the counter arguments to the OP. The proposed debunk still looks much better. I agree.

KLOL506 · May 8, 2024

Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara said:
Did I underestimate my yapping, or overestimate the evaluation abilities on staff? Both? Probably both.

By the way, just a reminder that the alternative to me doing 50 threads in a row is me posting another 9000 word wall of text. This is the lesser of two evils.

Resistance to Power Absorption [Kratos]

As shown here, Kratos is able to push away an enemy before they can absorb his magic. However, if he does not push them away in time, his magic gets absorbed (you can also see this in the gif Deagonx provided below). This is explicitly not a resistance. He is clearly getting his powers absorbed. The only "resistance" is from Kratos just stopping someone from using their power against him at all, which is not how resistances work on this wiki. If it's really necessary, you can specify on Kratos' page that techniques requiring sustained contact are dangerous to use against Kratos because he can beat people up at close range.

Kratos still resists the Arms of Hades and the River Styx (which can also strip away magic) without himself suffering any loss of magic. At best this just gives the Priests another layer in the Power Absorption business but that's for another time (Pretty much why I said making separate threads for stuff like this is completely unnecessary).

Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara said:
Resistance to Poison & Acid [Kratos]

The supposed feat is of Kratos breaking free from the chimera’s acidic poison, but we can see that this isn’t the case. He is left dazed and damaged, and is only “freed” by the chimera’s snake head tossing him around like a ragdoll. Also, “breaking free” from poison isn’t a resistance. He is merely leaving an area suffused with poison, while he takes damage while in that area of effect. I don’t “resist fire manipulation” for walking out of a burning building.

Kratos would've had his face melted off by the poison but it doesn't happen. Also, Planck already addressed the crux of this in the previous thread. Disagree with the removal.

Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara said:
Causality Manipulation [Kratos]

The Amulet of Uroborus can rewind and stop time. That’s it. It manipulates time. It does not directly influence past events, it just rewinds time.

Already addressed by Planck here.

Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara · May 8, 2024

Now for Planck's prior comments on these abilities.

The hand is visibly glowing with said ability, so it's not really a case of pushing him off before he can fire it. The rest goes back to the "failed QTE" argument.

The ability just takes a few moments to activate, which Kratos takes advantage of by pushing away the priest before he can do any lasting harm. The "failed QTE" argument was also that failed QTEs aren't canon because they'd imply Kratos is dead. But this obviously doesn't apply here. This is just him being mildly inconvenienced in gameplay.

We had a whole debate on this in the original upgrade thread, so this comes off as more just denying it for the sake of it.

"We accepted this before" is not an argument. As it stands now, there is insufficient evidence of causality manipulation.

You break out by shaking it off in-game. This isn't him just suffering said effect and it wearing off.

If you watch the scan closely, you can see that the pool of acid disappears before Kratos shakes off its effects. Obviously, if it vanishes, then Kratos doesn't need to resist anything.

KLOL506 said:
Honestly not even necessary to make this thread in the first place since the latter two got overwhelming rejection already, but at this point to cut the clutter I'm just gonna recommend this thread be moved to Staff Only. In the meanwhile, I'll type up a few responses to the parts I think is worth addressing.

I disagree. This is 3 extremely straightforward removals, and we can just move it if things start to get derailed.

KLOL506 · May 8, 2024

Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara said:
"We accepted this before" is not an argument. As it stands now, there is insufficient evidence of causality manipulation.

Agree to disagree then.

Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara said:
If you watch the scan closely, you can see that the pool of acid disappears before Kratos shakes off its effects. Obviously, if it vanishes, then Kratos doesn't need to resist anything.

The pool disappearing doesn't matter if Kratos has already gotten it onto himself and has to shake himself out of it. The fact that Kratos has to even shake himself out to get a hold of himself without getting melted away by the poison already debunks the notion that he doesn't need to resist anything.

Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara said:
I disagree. This is 3 extremely straightforward removals, and we can just move it if things start to get derailed.

Things were already starting to get derailed in the prior thread with the FRA trains. Better safe than sorry.

KLOL506 · May 8, 2024

Also, stuff that has been rejected needs a 3-4 month waiting period if you're not using new evidence for your claims.

Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara · May 8, 2024

KLOL506 said:
Kratos still resists the Arms of Hades and the River Styx (which can also strip away magic) without himself suffering any loss of magic. At best this just gives the Priests another layer in the Power Absorption business but that's for another time (Pretty much why I said making separate threads for stuff like this is completely unnecessary).

Do you have scans of this?

Kratos would've had his face melted off by the poison but it doesn't happen. Also, Planck already addressed the crux of this in the previous thread. Disagree with the removal.

There is no indication that the poison is that potent. It is obviously still damaging him and leaving him effectively defenseless.

KLOL506 said:
Agree to disagree then.

This isn't a matter of "agree to disagree", KLOL. Please stop defaulting to this and provide evidence of causality manipulation.

Also, while I did already address Planck's points, I do think it's funny how you say he "addressed" certain points when his only argument was that they argued about something in a previous thread. You are aware that that's not an argument, right?

KLOL506 · May 8, 2024

Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara said:
Do you have scans of this?

In the comics, Kratos is able to fight off the effects of the Arms of Hades, he regularly faces the Arms throughout the games after this (Most notably in GoW1). As for the Styx, Charon drops his ass there after defeating him.

Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara said:
There is no indication that the poison is that potent. It is obviously still damaging him and leaving him effectively defenseless.

Ordinary poisons don't make bubbles like that. As if that wasn't enough, Kratos can also shrug off being bitten by the snake-head without any long-lasting effects.

Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara · May 8, 2024

Kratos still resists the Arms of Hades and the River Styx (which can also strip away magic) without himself suffering any loss of magic. At best this just gives the Priests another layer in the Power Absorption business but that's for another time (Pretty much why I said making separate threads for stuff like this is completely unnecessary).

This is done using the Soul of Hades, which Kratos only acquires in God of War 3. I have seen no other feats of him resisting power absorption from any source. Also, the River Styx doesn't drain magic innately. The souls in the river do that, and Kratos isn't necessarily being exposed to them every time he swims in the river.

The pool disappearing doesn't matter if Kratos has already gotten it onto himself and has to shake himself out of it. The fact that Kratos has to even shake himself out to get a hold of himself without getting melted away by the poison already debunks the notion that he doesn't need to resist anything.

What proves the poison would instantly melt him if he didn't resist it, though? Like, it's not melting through the stone floor, so it's obviously not so potent that it could instantly dissolve a person, and the poison itself subsides after a few seconds anyways.

KLOL506 · May 8, 2024

Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara said:
This is done using the Soul of Hades, which Kratos only acquires in God of War 3.

Charon dropped him in the Styx in Chains of Olympus, which takes place before GoW3.

Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara said:
I have seen no other feats of him resisting power absorption from any source. Also, the River Styx doesn't drain magic innately. The souls in the river do that, and Kratos isn't necessarily being exposed to them every time he swims in the river.

The river is constantly flowing with souls of the dead. This isn't some one-off situation in GoW3. Contact with the river will instantly make the souls come near you to drain you of your magics without any exception. Burden of proof is on you to show they didn't do it in Chains.

Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara said:
What proves the poison would instantly melt him if he didn't resist it, though? Like, it's not melting through the stone floor, so it's obviously not so potent that it could instantly dissolve a person, and the poison itself subsides after a few seconds anyways.

It not melting the stone floor is obviously game mechanics, like in most other games where you can't destroy the buildings in the scenery no matter what weaponry you have. I'm not sure what you're trying to prove with this argument of yours.

KLOL506 · May 8, 2024

Also, even assuming it isn't acidic, it would merely remove Acid Manipulation, not Poison Manip itself.

Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara · May 8, 2024

KLOL506 said:
In the comics, Kratos is able to fight off the effects of the Arms of Hades, he regularly faces the Arms throughout the games after this (Most notably in GoW1). As for the Styx, Charon drops his ass there after defeating him.

In the first scan, Kratos isn't being harmed by the arms. He is tearing them apart before they get the chance to do so. For the second scan, this does not prove he resists power absorption. As I said before, simply being dropped in the Styx doesn't mean he is being attacked by the souls that dwell there. We never see that happen, nor is it implied to happen.

Ordinary poisons don't make bubbles like that. As if that wasn't enough, Kratos can also shrug off being bitten by the snake-head without any long-lasting effects.

...Please tell me there's more evidence of the poison being acidic than "it has bubbles in it". Please.

KLOL506 said:
Charon dropped him in the Styx in Chains of Olympus.

The river is constantly flowing with souls of the dead. This isn't some one-off situation in GoW3. Contact with the river will instantly make the souls come near you to drain you of your magics without any exception.

Again, the River Styx doesn't absorb powers by itself. The souls do that. They live there, yes, but that does not mean every time someone so much as dips their toes in the river, they're getting their magic absorbed. Just like you can swim in shark-infested waters and not necessarily get ripped to shreds (even if that's a likely possibility).

Also, again, yet more claims without evidence. Just, please stop posting for a second, and take 20-30 minutes to gather scans for your claims. Please. It is not that difficult, and will make the discussion easier for all parties involved.

Burden of proof is on you to show they didn't do it in Chains.

No, it is NOT my burden of proof. Do not **** with me on this, KLOL. You are the one making a claim ("the souls of the dead tried to absorb Kratos' magic in Chains of Olympus"). YOU are the one that needs to prove that claim. I do not need to prove a negative.

It not melting the stone floor is obviously game mechanics, like in most other games where you can't destroy the buildings in the scenery no matter what weaponry you have. I'm not sure what you're trying to prove with this argument of yours.

So let me ask again: Where's the proof that it's acidic? Don't respond right away, just take your time, find the scans that prove your point, and then get back to me. I can wait.

KLOL506 · May 8, 2024

Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara said:
In the first scan, Kratos isn't being harmed by the arms. He is tearing them apart before they get the chance to do so.

EDIT: NVM, I confused the wrong scene.

Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara said:
For the second scan, this does not prove he resists power absorption. As I said before, simply being dropped in the Styx doesn't mean he is being attacked by the souls that dwell there. We never see that happen, nor is it implied to happen.

We literally see it happen in GoW3 where the souls greedily take away stuff from him. The only difference between Chains and GoW3 is that the influx of souls in the latter is higher, that's it.

Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara said:
...Please tell me there's more evidence of the poison being acidic than "it has bubbles in it". Please.

Please do not use condescending tones like this.

Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara said:
Again, the River Styx doesn't absorb powers by itself. The souls do that. They live there, yes, but that does not mean every time someone so much as dips their toes in the river, they're getting their magic absorbed. Just like you can swim in shark-infested waters and not necessarily get ripped to shreds (even if that's a likely possibility).

Fuji, we literally see the souls cling onto Kratos the moment he lands into the river. And why are you comparing IRL sharks with magical souls in a fantasy setting?

Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara said:
Also, again, yet more claims without evidence. Just, please stop posting for a second, and take 20-30 minutes to gather scans for your claims. Please. It is not that difficult, and will make the discussion easier for all parties involved.

Again, tone down the condescending behavior and the accusations. There are better ways to address this.

Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara said:
No, it is NOT my burden of proof. Do not **** with me on this, KLOL. You are the one making a claim ("the souls of the dead tried to absorb Kratos' magic in Chains of Olympus"). YOU are the one that needs to prove that claim. I do not need to prove a negative.

I made my claim using GoW3, so I'm going to have to ask you to tone it down with the aggression and accusations. This does not fit you at all. If you do not find it sufficient then there's nothing more I can do to help you.

If you're going to be this aggressive throughout the whole debate then I have nothing more to say to you or to this thread. I will wait for staff instead to settle this matter.

KLOL506 · May 8, 2024

@Planck69 @Theglassman12 Apologies, but would you be able to handle things from here when you're free?

Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara · May 8, 2024

KLOL506 said:
In GoW1 there is a secret treasure room where you have to kill a bunch of Hades Arms to get through to the treasure box.

Killing an enemy does not mean you resist their hax, KLOL. I am asking for proof of Kratos resisting the arms of Hades, not killing them. Do you understand?

KLOL506 said:
We literally see it happen in GoW3 where the souls greedily take away stuff from him. The only difference between Chains and GoW3 is that the influx of souls in the latter is higher, that's it.

He doesn't resist their effects in this scene, so that's a bad example. That aside, I'm aware it happens once. I am asking for proof that it happens every single time without exception, as you yourself put it.

Please do not use condescending tones like this.

Then please provide evidence for your claims. This isn't me being condescending, this is me being genuinely baffled as to how bubbles are supposed to prove acidic properties. If there is more proof, please provide it.

I made my claim using GoW3, so I'm going to have to ask you to tone it down with the aggression and accusations. This does not fit you at all.

You are literally the one who brought up Chains of Olympus, KLOL:

KLOL506 said:
The river is constantly flowing with souls of the dead. This isn't some one-off situation in GoW3. Contact with the river will instantly make the souls come near you to drain you of your magics without any exception. Burden of proof is on you to show they didn't do it in Chains.

If you're going to be this aggressive throughout the whole debate then I have nothing more to say to you or to this thread. I will wait for staff instead to settle this matter.

I am asking you to provide evidence for your claims. You have stated that the souls of the dead will attack Kratos instantly, without exception, every single time he enters the river, and that he should resist their effects on that premise. I am asking for examples of that besides God of War 3, so we can establish that this is something that happens repeatedly and not a single time. You seem oddly reticent when it comes to providing evidence.

Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara · May 8, 2024

Also, moving this to staff discussion is a bad idea. I plan on making way more threads than this, so move the thread back to the regular CRT section unless you want staff discussion to be nothing but God of War for 3 months straight. Save it for when I get around to making another essay-sized downgrade.

KLOL506 · May 8, 2024

Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara said:
Killing an enemy does not mean you resist their hax, KLOL. I am asking for proof of Kratos resisting the arms of Hades, not killing them. Do you understand?

One last clarification: I mixed up the GoW1 Treasure room with the GoW3 one, so my bad on that front. That being said, in the comic scans there are arms above and below him, which undeniably make contact with him but still can't do anything to him.

Everything else I have already addressed in the prior comment and thus I can't be bothered to respond to them again. I will be unfollowing this thread now.

Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara said:
You seem oddly reticent when it comes to providing evidence.

Also, for the last time, I'd suggest you refrain from making such accusations in the future.

Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara · May 8, 2024

KLOL506 said:
One last clarification: I mixed up the GoW1 Treasure room with the GoW3 one, so my bad on that front. That being said, in the comic scans there are arms above and below him, which undeniably make contact with him but still can't do anything to him.

Everything else I have already addressed in the prior comment and thus I can't be bothered to respond to them again. I will be unfollowing this thread now.

KLOL, I'm looking at the scan right now and cannot discern a single point where they make contact with him. They are reaching out to him, but he is tearing them apart before they can hit him. Can you please point out where the arms are touching him?

Also, no, you didn't address those things. I asked for scans of certain things (evidence of the chimera's poison being acidic and the souls of the dead instantly attacking everyone who falls in the Styx without exception), and you have not provided those scans. If you need time to gather scans, then by all means, take as long as you need. I can be very patient when I need to, so don't feel like you need to respond right away.

KLOL506 said:
Also, for the last time, I'd suggest you refrain from making such accusations in the future.

Then just provide the scans I'm asking for? I genuinely do not understand why this is so difficult.

KLOL506 · May 8, 2024

This pestering is getting tiresome.

Anyway...

Immediately after Kratos gets resurrected by Gaia, he breaks free from the grip of the Arms of Hades and claws his way out back into the world of the living.

And before you ask about the lack of a magic bar, that's game mechanics. We've established in prior CRTs that Soul = Life Force = Power = Magic. And the arms can transmute stuff into lost souls and strip them of their powers.

I've already addressed the River Styx argument countless times by now using GoW3 alone stating that the only difference here is the influx of souls caused by Kratos flooding the Mortal World, otherwise there is fundamentally no reason for us to assume that the Styx in Chains would be acting any differently from GoW3.

I've also explained the acid part but I can see you're not going to be convinced by the arguments for it so it's whatever at this point.

I'm going to kindly ask that you stop pestering me further from here onwards, or else I will be forced to report you to staff.

Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara · May 8, 2024

KLOL506 said:
This pestering is getting tiresome.

Anyway...

Immediately after Kratos gets resurrected by Gaia, he breaks free from the grip of the Arms of Hades and claws his way out back into the world of the living.

And before you ask about the lack of a magic bar, that's game mechanics. We've established in prior CRTs that Soul = Life Force = Power = Magic. And the arms can transmute stuff into lost souls and strip them of their powers.

...So he doesn't resist them. He is explicitly getting torn to shreds by the arms, and is saved by an external force resurrecting him. This is the exact opposite of a resistance. He breaks out of their grip, and is able to avoid getting grabbed by them again (the arms don't take effect immediately, so he'd have at least a few seconds to gain his bearings and fight back).

A lot of Kratos' resistances are like this, where he'll break out of the grip of something that is harming him. It may be good to note under his standard tactics that contact-based moves are less effective against him because of this, but it's not a resistance. A resistance would be if he wasn't harmed in the first place (ie; he doesn't need to break out of their grip to remain unharmed).

I've already addressed the River Styx argument countless times by now using GoW3 alone stating that the only difference here is the influx of souls caused by Kratos flooding the Mortal World, otherwise there is fundamentally no reason for us to assume that the Styx in Chains would be acting any differently from GoW3.

KLOL, you've claimed that the souls attack everyone that enter the river, instantly, no matter what. We only see it happen once. So I would like to see more examples of this.

I've also explained the acid part but I can see you're not going to be convinced by the arguments for it so it's whatever at this point.

No, you haven't. Here are the only comments you've made on the topic:

Ordinary poisons don't make bubbles like that. As if that wasn't enough, Kratos can also shrug off being bitten by the snake-head without any long-lasting effects.

It not melting the stone floor is obviously game mechanics, like in most other games where you can't destroy the buildings in the scenery no matter what weaponry you have. I'm not sure what you're trying to prove with this argument of yours.

You just said "poison doesn't bubble like that", and "not melting stone is gameplay mechanics". The latter doesn't even prove it's acid, and the former... well, the former is just silly. I'm not sure how else to put that.

I'm going to kindly ask that you stop pestering me further from here onwards, or else I will be forced to report you to staff.

KLOL... All I have done in this thread is ask you to post scans. You have been weirdly aggro over this, and I genuinely cannot understand why. Like, feel free to report me, I guess? But I'm curious why you decided to step into a debate when you should've known that I'd ask you to prove your claims. That's to be expected of everyone on the site; I am not doing this to target you or anyone else, I just want you to verify your claims.

The_Unknown_Warrior1 · May 8, 2024

Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara said:
Resistance to Power Absorption [Kratos]

As shown here, Kratos is able to push away an enemy before they can absorb his magic. However, if he does not push them away in time, his magic gets absorbed (you can also see this in the gif Deagonx provided below). This is explicitly not a resistance. He is clearly getting his powers absorbed. The only "resistance" is from Kratos just stopping someone from using their power against him at all, which is not how resistances work on this wiki. If it's really necessary, you can specify on Kratos' page that techniques requiring sustained contact are dangerous to use against Kratos because he can beat people up at close range.

About this point, couldn't this point be argued as Kratos having limited resistance to Power Absorption (disregarding the other examples of resistance that were provided by KLOL)? He's being affected by the absorption, but since he's able to prevent the enemy from completely absorbing his magic then I personally think that should warrant some limited resistance to Power Absorption.

Otherwise I'm largely in agreement, especially with the removal of Causality Manipulation if all that involves is the rewinding of time.

Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara · May 8, 2024

The_Unknown_Warrior1 said:
About this point, couldn't this point be argued as Kratos having limited resistance to Power Absorption (disregarding the other examples of resistance that were provided by KLOL)? He's being affected by the absorption, but since he's able to prevent the enemy from completely absorbing his magic then I personally think that should warrant some limited resistance to Power Absorption.

Otherwise I'm largely in agreement, especially with the removal of Causality Manipulation if all that involves is the rewinding of time.

No, because of how the ability works. We can see that it requires sustained contact to take effect, and all Kratos is doing is preventing contact from being made. He's simply putting himself in a position where an ability that previously affected him is no longer able to affect him; Not through resistance or power nullification, but just by exploiting the limitations of his enemy's abilities. It would be like saying I resist fire manipulation for dodging out of the way of a fireball.

Let me put it this way: If someone's power absorption could be used at a range (such as through a magic spell that absorbs magic), could Kratos resist it? I would say no, because his method of "resistance" (pushing away his attacker) is completely inapplicable in a situation like that.

Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara · May 8, 2024

The_Unknown_Warrior1 said:
About this point, couldn't this point be argued as Kratos having limited resistance to Power Absorption (disregarding the other examples of resistance that were provided by KLOL)? He's being affected by the absorption, but since he's able to prevent the enemy from completely absorbing his magic then I personally think that should warrant some limited resistance to Power Absorption.

Otherwise I'm largely in agreement, especially with the removal of Causality Manipulation if all that involves is the rewinding of time.

Actually, looking at the gif more closely, Kratos loses a small chunk of his magic meter the instant the priest touches him. So it's not even a matter of sustained contact, he just. Explicitly does not resist having his magic drained.

Employe · May 8, 2024

Did OP made this thread purely because he saw how Kratos recently stomped Yukari Yakumo?

Anyway agree with thread

Robo432343 · May 8, 2024

Employe said:
Did OP made this thread purely because he saw how Kratos recently stomped Yukari Yakumo?

Anyway agree with thread

bro this is a staff thread we both have to delete our comments

Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara · May 8, 2024

Employe said:
Did OP made this thread purely because he saw how Kratos recently stomped Yukari Yakumo?

Anyway agree with thread

You got me. Guess I should quit powerscaling, now that my true intentions have been revealed.

Dark_Soul20189 · May 8, 2024

Robo432343 said:
bro this is a staff thread we both have to delete our comments

This is not suppose to be a staff thread.

Employe · May 8, 2024

Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara said:
You got me. Guess I should quit powerscaling, now that my true intentions have been revealed.

Powerscaling sucks and is just life-drainer, ngl

Pepsimanslover_69 · May 8, 2024

Dark_Soul20189 said:
This is not suppose to be a staff thread.

Doesn't matter. In its current form, we would need staff perms or movement to CR to actually comment.

~~This might be the lesser of two evils, considering how derailed last thread was.~~

Planck69 · May 8, 2024

I don't know why this thread is even being moved to Staff Discussion, given that this is a repeat of points that were already made on a rejected thread.

There's a 3 month buffer period before arguments can be rehashed in a CRT and doing it piece meal doesn't change the fact that these were objectively discussed on a rejected thread.

I'm closing this and saying it right now that the next threads better be new removals/additions and not just the sections of the first mega thread posted bit by bit.

DarkGrath · May 8, 2024

I have reopened this due to the concern expressed here. I believe it is appropriate to allow this matter to continue being discussed considering the conditions under which the previous thread was closed, as long as the discussion remains civil and to-the-point.

Deagonx · May 8, 2024

Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara said:
Resistance to Power Absorption [Kratos]

As shown here, Kratos is able to push away an enemy before they can absorb his magic. However, if he does not push them away in time, his magic gets absorbed (you can also see this in the gif Deagonx provided below). This is explicitly not a resistance. He is clearly getting his powers absorbed. The only "resistance" is from Kratos just stopping someone from using their power against him at all, which is not how resistances work on this wiki.

Self evident. If a vampire bites me on the next to drain my health, but i push him off before he manages to take any, I don't have a resistance.

Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara said:
Resistance to Poison & Acid [Kratos]

The supposed feat is of Kratos breaking free from the chimera’s acidic poison, but we can see that this isn’t the case. He is left dazed and damaged, and is only “freed” by the chimera’s snake head tossing him around like a ragdoll. Also, “breaking free” from poison isn’t a resistance. He is merely leaving an area suffused with poison, while he takes damage while in that area of effect. I don’t “resist fire manipulation” for walking out of a burning building.

He's clearly affected by it. I'd expect some sort of "shake it off" quick time event from any verse with this sort of mechanic.

Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara said:
Causality Manipulation [Kratos]

The Amulet of Uroborus can rewind and stop time. That’s it. It manipulates time. It does not directly influence past events, it just rewinds time.

Indeed this is not causality manip.

Full agree.

Phoenks · May 8, 2024

I do not see any good arguments against the OP so I agree.

DarkDragonMedeus · May 8, 2024

I have moved this back to regular Content Revision via majority agreement. As for the arguments, I prefer to remain neutral until both parties give their chance.

The_Unknown_Warrior1 · May 8, 2024

Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara said:
Snip

Gotcha, so the issue with the absorption is that it has to less to do with Kratos resisting it on his own and more to do with him stopping the enemy from absorbing his magic? In that case, yeah I think it shouldn't be used for resistance to Power Absorption.

However I'm not a God of War expert and I imagine that there's more direct examples of Kratos resisting Power Absorption so, in a worst case scenario, the justification could be reworded if one is found to replace. Otherwise I'm still in full agreement.

CloverDragon03 · May 8, 2024

I really don't think this should've been reopened, but if this is what we're doing, I'mma do my vote thing again:

Agree: Maverick_Zero_X, Deagonx
Disagree:
Neutral: DarkDragonMedeus

Deagonx · May 8, 2024

Many are likely aware of this from the RVR report, but nonetheless:

@Mr. Bambu @Firestorm808 @Damage3245 @CrimsonStarFallen @Sir_Ovens @Maverick_Zero_X @Wokistan @Ultima_Reality @AbaddonTheDisappointment @DarkGrath @Everything12

I am sure many of you are not interested in God of War, feel free to ignore. I'll take the time between now and the next thread to ask each of you if you'd prefer not to get tagged. With that said, we're going to be doing a series of small revisions on relatively minor abilities that don't appear to be justified by the evidence. In this case:

1) A "Resistance to Power Absorption" wherein Kratos has his mana successfully drained before pushing the guy away. If you push him fast enough he fails to drain any mana.
2) "Resistance to Poison/Acid" because if Kratos steps in a pool of Chimera's poison, he gets stunlocked and damaged until you press buttons fast enough for him to shake it off.
3) "Causality Manipulation" for a Doctor Strange-esque time amulet that can rewind and stop time. Self evident, time travel/time manip is it's own ability.

Maverick_Zero_X · May 8, 2024

Agree with the OP.

AbaddonTheDisappointment · May 8, 2024

Agree with power absorption like in the previous thread.

Disagree on poison/acid manip, he’d still have to resist the poisons effects on him even if he does “shake it off”. Leaving the area also wouldn’t really help if he’s directly splashed by it.

Agree with causality manip

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