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Bakusaiga can cover an AP difference.
As for Vista being superior, I just don't see it.
Zoro shouldn't be that far behind luffy right now, and luffy should be stronger than Katakuri or equal at this point.
Round 1: Vs everyone at once not including gods of destruction.
Round 2: Including gods of destruction.
Bonus round: Angels included too.
Barring Zeno, obviously.
I'm sorry, but theres literally no evidence that Goku, vegeta or Frieza surviving a Hakai is because of some innate resistance that only they have. It's been shown quite a few times they "muscled" through it, so to speak, and theres plenty of evidence to support this.
We're talking about a guy...
I doubt whis would be referring to supressed Jiren's power instead of his full power. This is Whis we're talking about here, not krillin.
Not to mention Beerus could also have power thats above a GoD's, we still dont know his strength compared to the others yet, as he hasn't demonstrated his...
Really doubt MUI Goku is >SS Gogeta, or even base, so Broly wins.
By the way, Beerus was never confirmed weaker than Jiren in-canon, scans like those are pretty irreliable.
Whis saying "Power comparable or greater than a GoD's" level should also take into consideration his full...
Broly wins imo. Tbh if we follow DB logic a newer villain is supposed to be stronger, but if we go with what has been presented, broly was able to tango with a SSB, Post ToP Gogeta, who should be quite a bit above MUI Goku.
Ikari Broly was also thrashing Goku, and SS Broly dominated Goku/Vegeta...
I mean, when it comes to Beerus, people both lowball and wank him. I think a fight between him and MUI Goku would definitely settle any doubts as to the powerscaling.
Whether Jiren is stronger than Beerus might be resolved by a Goku UI fight. But if its stated Goku still cant beat Beerus during or afterwards, and Jiren loses, then
Beerus>Jiren
Cause again, we have never seen him go full power, and toppo was just proof of that
Whis saying belmod was stronger than beerus is a fraud
Beerus was only beaten in an arm wrestle, and it wasnt even Belmod, it was Quitela, and if Whis was so sure, why did he go on to confirm it as a rumor when Jiren was holding back the spirit bomb?
I still think inconclusive, as Beerus is...
I've read a bit on 001, the gate guardian? Thats the writer? seemed at first glance to be some kind of entity that was inside the universe. Where does is the story about it being the supreme? I want to read it
From what I remember, he survived an island's explosion due to "brew", an explosion which 800 years later still has a vortex around it.
Just thought I'd bring it up, since his durability seems low, specially for composite.
I vote for Zeno
Oh, and just a side thing, even if speed werent equalized, Zeno probably still one shots(Zeno destroying universe 10 destroyed everything that was a part of it, even things he himself didnt know about, like the locket that one fighter had)
^Even if Jiren was slighty stronger(possibly higher), I doubt that'd let him beat Beerus, who has energy nullification and Hakai
Plus, it isnt confirmed that Belmod>Beerus, that was only an arm wrestling match, they've never fought before
I'd say probably inconclusive, seeing as we still havent seen Beerus go all-out yet. Even if Jiren were slightly stronger overall, Beerus has shown much more abilities.
So far, Jiren just has overwhelming power, but has shown no technique, just pure physical/mental power.
I mean, the fusion of Goku Black and Zamasu put barely universal characters, and made them into a character that was merging with other timelines.
Just fusing Infinite Zamasu, Zeno, and the super dragon can easily put them 2-B, since the rate of their power would be insane. Isn't counting...
In Inuyashaverse, Sesshomaru destroys a mountain in the manga. Another character said its a mountain, word of god said it was a mountain, but, it was deemed much less because it "didnt look" like a mountain.
I read up on her page, and, if a tier 1-B is able to exist, then, I suppose Zeno can't just destroy whatever she does need to exist (For example, her own reality).
If Zeno *can* be fazed by 2-C attacks, then yes, I suppose that would be the only logical outcome, but, how long would that take...
Well, how does Cali take out Zeno then? He wasnt fazed by his own attack, so, how will the other character hurt him? I don't know anything about the other fighter in this thread
EDIT: Something strange occurred to me, and, i'm not sure if it's been brought up, but, right before Zeno said"...
Just curious, why is Saitama being brought up all the time?
Besides, its not really much AP that is bugging me, its really durability and speed.
Besides basic durability, we don't know much about hax resistance, or much in general.
But if we're to use character statements, then, alot of...
put him in a fight with what feats? You can't really defend a character with not alot of feats.
Meanwhile, the other character in this thread has Mid godly regen, is much faster than characters that can cross universes, and, seems to be generally better understood than Zeno.
Meanwhile, heck...
Atleast saitama has been actually hit before.
Zamasu for example, he both was unfazed by Goku and co's attack, and, on the other end, was annhilated by Zeno, so, we now how durable he is.
How do we know how durable Zeno is, aside from statements and one showing of him not being fazed by...
Yes, but, we still know next to nothing about him xD.. It's this fight specifically where this is a problem.
If the other character is the same, then, we're just going off of assumptions o.O
Whether he felt it or not, I find it weird using a character who hasn't entered a single fight, and, who's only showing is erasing 12 universes on the spot.
Even if he is just a 2-C character, it's just weird seeing a non-combat, near featless character in a battle
Zeno was unfazed by his own attack, the only reason he is 2-C is because we know next to nothing about him.
Do people forget he didnt even feel his 2-C level attack or..?
The only one here who even brought that up is me, so, are you trying to suggest that I'm an idiot? I've been critisizing the plausibility of the void being used for any kind of upgrade, so, if your referring to me, then, please.
I am a firm believer of higher tiered DB, and I believe Tiers past...