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1-A World of Darkness

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I still think that Ultima makes good sense.

We should probably close this.
 
I am no where near done with this, Ant.

And please, stop closing the WoD threads, I am still finding much more stuff each time I pick up the books, there's always discussion to be had, closing it is just a pointless task, because I'll just have to make a new one.
 
It constantly wastes the staffs' time that you are relentlessly obsessing about this. It would be better if you accept our rejection of your suggestions and move on without making any more 1-A WoD threads.
 
What? Ant if I were to do that nothing would get done, of course I'm not accepting a down play of a down play, and If I'd accept the judgement of 1 biased person, 1 Logical person willing to have a Discussion and 2 uninformed then the validity of the profiles would be comprimised and like I've said before, if staff aren't willing to debate a topic then they shouldn't join the thread, and why should I drop 1-A WoD I have non-Staff agreeing with me and I value their opinion just as much as any staff members opinion
 
People have some real dedication to stop upgrading WoD when all of this is clear proof that it is a 1-A verse.

Angels created the verse so they obviously created the concept of dimensions. Before creation there was just a void. The Angels created all of reality including the concepts, ideas, forms etc.

Why are we changing the meaning of the word "Platonic" in WoD? The word is used in WoD clearly meaning Platonism and it is used in the correct fashion. There is nothing contradicting this. If the word "Platonic" is used consistently, obviously meaning Plato's theory and abstract ideas (concepts) and such then it is clear bias to say that you need to fully explain Platonism in the verse for it to run on Platonism. Along with Plato being in the verse and containing his quotes.

https://imgur.com/Obq9o4R This is clearly what Platonism is. There is no refutation only bias.

SMT isn't relevant because it's contradicted whilst none of this is contradicted. If you can bring up anything contradicting platonism in WoD then by all means post it. Otherwise this is just clear bias against WoD which from my point of view is derived from Uld's relationshop with Matt.
 
I can't speak for others, but I personally have absolutely no bias towards World of Darkness at all, I actually started to get interested in the Verse lately and was planning to read on it (Though I do admit that the quality of the current profiles was also another reason for that), I am just following the Wiki's current standards and arguing based on them, I really just want the profiles to be accurate and devoid of misinformation.

We never accepted simple mentions of Platonic Forms as automatically warranting 1-A, regardless if they actually mention Plato or quote his dialogues or fit his descriptions. Like I said, the property of being an Abstract, Aspatial, Atemporal and Transcendent object which defines reality is an attribute shared by any correct portrayal of a Platonic Form in fiction, yet we still include those in our division between False Platonic and True Platonic anyway, it is not and never was something we applied only to WoD out of spite or bias

Then there is fact that:

Ultima Reality said:
you can very well be transcendent over the concepts of Time and Space and be something like 1-C or lower. To qualify for 1-A, the verse would have to specify in some way that you are above all forms of Time and Space on a conceptual level, something which is extremely rare and almost nonexistent in fiction, otherwise your Tier is pretty much variable and needs to be analyzed on a case-by-case basis. This is pretty much why we took the conservative route and divided Platonic Concepts into Types in the first place.
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Anyhow, I will just unfollow this Thread, since I am not really in the mood to debate... anything right now anymore. So, bye.
 
Since Ultima has already countered the arguments, and we will not accept the 1-A upgrade attempts, it is best if you permanently drop this issue, and do not turn this into even more of a relentless war of persistence than it already is.

The staff does not have limitless time and energy available to spend on you. We should close this, and likely any further attempts to create threads about this as well.
 
Here we go with the victim card again...Can we have one WoD thread without accusations and such being thrown around? Like it wears thin fast. Everytime someone disagrees, it because of bias. Apparently, everyone is out to get WoD, which is not true. If people constantly have problems with a verse then there is obvioisly an issue with that verse Not everyone has a vendetta against the verse. Assuming so is ridiculous and is nothing more than whining.
 
Countered the arguments?

Like what? The Outerveral page which states that a realm that is trascendent of the concepts of time and space it's an Outerveral realm?

That people disagree with both him and all other staff members that it's obviously talking about Platonism and Platonic concepts, to which (leaving out Ultima since he's left) is 4 - 2.

The rest of this is just an appeal to Authority, they're out voted by everyone else.

The exact same thing happened in the Transduality thread, and in the end I was the correct one and was proven right.
 
Antvasima said:
I still think that Ultima makes good sense.
We should probably close this.
Click to expand...
This, the thread has been done for a while, and Udl is moving into nothing but playing victim now. This thread is just wasting everyone's time.
 
Udlmaster said:
Countered the arguments?
Like what? The Outerveral page which states that a realm that is trascendent of the concepts of time and space it's an Outerveral realm?

That people disagree with both him and all other staff members that it's obviously talking about Platonism and Platonic concepts, to which (leaving out Ultima since he's left) is 4 - 2.

The rest of this is just an appeal to Authority, they're out voted by everyone else.

The exact same thing happened in the Transduality thread, and in the end I was the correct one and was proven right.
Click to expand...
Just leaving this here:

1. It doesn't state that, it states that transcending all forms of space and time in a conceptual level is 1-A, not that simply transcending the concepts qualifies for that Tier

2. "lol outvoted" is not how the Wiki works. 1 + 1 will always be 2, regardless if the entire World decides against it.

3. Oh? I am sorry, but all you did in that Thread was copy-pasting a really outdated description from Aeyu's wiki that was debunked as being completely improvable, you never inserted any significant input in it and even briefly derailed it with WoD. Thank You. Very. Much.
 
I agree with Dragonmasterxyz.

I will close this thread now. Do not continue to pester the staff about WoD by creating new threads with exaggerated claims. Consider this as a warning.
 
Reopening. Make sure you avoid:

Confrontational comments.

-Personal Attacks

-Accusing one of Trolling

-Trying to piss one another off

-Trying to find the smallest harsh comment in order to report a user on

Stay respectful and try and debate like normal people.

Otherwise we will be forced to "abuse our authority" and close the thread again.
 
Let's start slow.

First off Plato himself with his quotes and references clearly exists in the verse, Platonism clearly exists no doubt about that even the opposition agree. This wiki rates Platonism as 1-A.

They even explain what the nature of it is with this. https://imgur.com/Obq9o4R

Therefore. I just want to know the issue with this.
 
Plato's forms are extremely prevolent and blatant here, I don't really understand how you can deny the existance of platonic and archetypal concepts in this verse when they are directly refrenced and have used direct quotes and descriptions of plato as well. It is possibly the most direct use of his forms besides like the cthulu mythos.


Like just reading this link alone is enough to believe platonic and archetypal concepts exist as they directly correlate them to personified ideals and from what I know of the verse the angels created everything.
 
Sooo, this is open again.

@Udl, I personally recommend you to go and make a pretty good blog with all the info, scans and context of everything that could give the verse the "big tier". When you have the blog ready and only then contact the most knowleadble memebers about the tier system and the 1-A tier in general so they can evaluate it and if they give their aproval, then you have an upgrade, if not you could aim for a "Possibly/Likely Higher" in the profiles.

Like I said earlier, I'm all up for 1-A but the staff thinks is a strech/It isn't enough evidence, so yeah, take my advice and make a miracle with that.
 
EmperorRorepme said:
Let's start slow.
First off Plato himself with his quotes and references clearly exists in the verse, Platonism clearly exists no doubt about that even the opposition agree. This wiki rates Platonism as 1-A.

They even explain what the nature of it is with this. https://imgur.com/Obq9o4R

Therefore. I just want to know the issue with this.
Click to expand...
the issue is that they also need to aspatial (transcendent to space) and atemporal (transcendent to time) to be 1A
 
I personally think that this thread should remain closed, but can somebody ask Ultima to comment here again in lack of better options?
 
I'll do it.

I'll also monitor behavior in this thread if I need to, seeing as I have no opinion on the revisions themselves (meaning no bias) and am also fully aware of the history behind these threads in general.
 
Okay. Thank you. After Ultima has replied, I think that we should close this again. Nothing will come out of repeating ourselves over and over to exhaustion.
 
I have a sneaking suspicion that despite the arguments that have been made and evidence shown, as soon as ultima comments they will agree with him and close the thread. It's been built up too much at this point and their pride is on the line. I believe this is fruitless.
 
Don't make accusations or remarks that can be bad interpreted, the last thing we need here is another shit show.

If Ultima agrees great, if not then Udl can make a blog or leave the theme to cold down for awhile.
 
There is nothing wrong with just i just said. If you interpreted it as something "bad" that literally means nothing to me. I also made no accusations. That comment was made for the purpose of preventing another senseless closing of the thread if the issue is not solved.
 
It is not about "pride". It is about being sick and tired of the relentless time-wasting unreasonable arguing from Udlmaster, and an entirely new account like your own suddenly showing up to provide backup accusations isn't helping the situation, and seems like either a troll or a sockpuppet.
 
Okay then, but an entirely new account suddenly showing up to back up Udlmaster and level accusations against the staff here and elsewhere definitely seems like a sockpuppet.
 
Ultima wants to continue to talk about this.
 
EmperorRorepme said:
Let's start slow.
First off Plato himself with his quotes and references clearly exists in the verse, Platonism clearly exists no doubt about that even the opposition agree. This wiki rates Platonism as 1-A.

They even explain what the nature of it is with this. https://imgur.com/Obq9o4R

Therefore. I just want to know the issue with this.
Click to expand...
Mostly the fact we don't really consider Platonism to be an automatic pass-up for 1-A. Sure, Platonic Forms as defined by Plato would be beyond all constants and properties in the physical world, including Dimensionality and Space-Time in all levels, but for the purposes of rating these things in relation to fictional verses, additional context showing they are provably of that nature is needed, since:

1. Writers aren't obligated to align their philosophies / interpretations to Plato's works. Platonic Forms can be easily interpreted as being transcendent over merely one or a few levels by a person (which is the usual assumption among philosophers / physicists / whatever), not beyond conceptualization itself as a True Platonic Concept would be.

Like, there is an actual physicist who considers Platonic Forms to be four-dimensional.

Besides, I am fairly sure that World of Darkness itself establishes Platonic Ideals as existing beyond the Dimensions "we know", so this is another reason I am fairly wary of slapping automatic 1-A into the pages.
 
Just a note that I unblocked Noodles67. It seems like he is a friend of Udlmaster's, not the same person. He still needs to tone down the provocations though.
 
Yeah I understand that you may need some more justification now with just the term "Platonic". However, the thing to go with this is Angel created the concept of Dimension. And then there are realms beyond these places of dimension and concepts which are said to be Platonic along with literally saying what Platonism is all about in a condensed way albiet. I think this is good enough for 1-A from my point of view. But I respect the staff decisions.
 
I assume you are referring to this sca when saying that Angels created the concept of Dimension. But, as I already explained, it is visibly referring to the creation of the Material Reality, and proceeds to differentiate it from "The World of Emotion and Spirit" (which I assume is what existed prior to the material reality seeing the context of the Scan, but you can correct me on this one), so it is clearly not referring to Higher Dimensions or "Dimension" as a platonic concept, but more of a physical measurement of size and space upon which the Universe is built.
 
If anyone believes me to be a "sock puppet", I'm willing to chat with you in a voice channel via discord perferably or another app. Besides that I'd like to point out now that the angels have been proven to be the creators of reality, rather than soley just the material realm. all that is required now is to show the existance of platonic or archetypal concepts. which I believe there has already been multiple scans that have displayed that but here is more evidence anyway.

https://i.imgur.com/PadHmFR.png https://i.imgur.com/C8Lm7uq.png https://i.imgur.com/C8Lm7uq.png
 
Noodles isn't a sock. Or at the very least, he's not a sock of Uld. Their manner of speech is far too different from one-another for that to be the case.
 
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