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3-A Moro upgrade

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LaserPrecision

LaserPrecision

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As of currently, Moro's current Tier is 3-B at highest. I believe he should be 3-A, and debateably High 3-A (Although I think 3-A is far safer).

Currently Moro's 3-B for harming SSG Goku who was going to destroy the Universe over time (An unknown period of time) which has him at Multi-Galaxy. He also scales massively above previous enemies like Fusion Zamas who's also a 3-B character. Thus the following upgrade seems very reasonable

I'm sure all of you recall the 'Moro's energy will detonate and destroy the Galaxy' scene from the Manga correct? However, that was discovered to be a mistranslation. It was actually translated to read it will destroy every Galaxy or at least multiple Galaxies:

main-qimg-8ec6b2e3b76e9b43737b6da628cee1cb


main-qimg-533686684c83acf4418e9738885c2415

It was also implied that every Galaxy would be destroyed as it was stated that Moro's destruction will bring about the end of the Super Dragon Balls which are scattered all across Universe 7. Thus should support him destroying every Galaxy. Given that the Dragon Ball Macrocosm is several times larger than our own I imagine destroying several observerable Universes worth of Galaxies would quantify as 3-A.

But what about High 3-A? Why did I mention that? Well it's often treated as exerting infinite energy or destroying infinite space. And it just so happens that the Daizenshuu states there's INFINITE Galaxies in the Dragon Ball Macrocosm:

main-qimg-1ec3ef4ae9496473ad87679b766b3b6e


So if there's truly Infinite Galaxies (Which I don't believe), then Moro could easily be argued High 3-A. I think 3-A is reasonable given that several characters significantly weaker than Moro (after mering with the Planet) are 3-B already. So why wouldn't Moro be 3-A right? High 3-A would be nice, but I really only believe 3-A.
 
If the 1st scan is true, then it is 3-A.
The second scan is pretty vague, but it can be anything from 3-C to 3-B to 3-A.
The third scan applies to the old universe model where the universe was divided into 4 galaxies. So it doesn't apply to dbs manga in which the universe has countless galaxies. And galaxies "existing infinitely" just means that they are unfathomably large but not infinite.
 
BetterThanYou said:
The third scan applies to the old universe model where the universe was divided into 4 galaxies. So it doesn't apply to dbs manga in which the universe has countless galaxies. And galaxies "existing infinitely" just means that they are unfathomably large but not infinite.
Click to expand...
dbs manga still use that model lol
28.png
 
BetterThanYou said:
If the 1st scan is true, then it is 3-A.
The second scan is pretty vague, but it can be anything from 3-C to 3-B to 3-A.
The third scan applies to the old universe model where the universe was divided into 4 galaxies. So it doesn't apply to dbs manga in which the universe has countless galaxies. And galaxies "existing infinitely" just means that they are unfathomably large but not infinite.
Click to expand...
Actually the devivded part seemed as a mistranslation, because the Japanese language doesn't have words for plural that's why we have south galaxy, east galaxy, west galaxy, north galaxy instead of east galaxieS, North galaxieS, west galaxieS, south galaxieS.
Also the galaxies were stated to exist infinitely plus the infinity endlessly expanding universe which could just be hyperbole but it's stated multiple times so I don't know. It's a moot point anyway actually because infinite or not it won't change the rating that much
 
Orange said:
Actually the devivded part seemed as a mistranslation, because the Japanese language doesn't have words for plural that's why we have south galaxy, east galaxy, west galaxy, north galaxy instead of east galaxieS, North galaxieS, west galaxieS, south galaxieS.
Also the galaxies were stated to exist infinitely plus the infinity endlessly expanding universe which could just be hyperbole but it's stated multiple times so I don't know. It's a moot point anyway actually because infinite or not it won't change the rating that much
Click to expand...
Just because a universe expands infinitely doesn't mean that it is infinite. And galaxies existing infinitely is just flowery language. It just means thst thry are very large in size. And endless doesn't equal infinite either
 
GyroNutz said:
not only does that seem like flowery language but it has been stated in the DBS manga that the universe has both a centre and an edge, something which an infinite universe wouldn't be described as having because it'd be illogical.
Click to expand...
that is not a good argument against infinite size, you can define a start and endpoint for a line infinite in size so what is stopping you from defining a center point as well
 
GyroNutz said:
Yeah, if the scan is true, then this seems pretty clear-cut 3-A stuff. As for the infinite universe stuff, not only does that seem like flowery language but it has been stated in the DBS manga that the universe has both a centre and an edge, something which an infinite universe wouldn't be described as having because it'd be illogical.
Click to expand...
Actually you can put a pint and stretch it for infinity or infinitely from one direction, or stretch it from both direction for infinity and infinitely thus you still have a centere.
Plus it was stated too many times in clear tone to by hyperbole.
But I don't want to get in this hole yet
 
RisingIons said:
How can something that travels/exists infinitely have an endpoint?
Click to expand...
lemme grab what I said on the dragon ball thread
So about the point that a universe cannot be infinite due to it having a center and an edge, this is not right, as other infinite things could reasonably have a beginning and end, let us say we have a line, that line has a start and an end, the start (point A) and the end (point B) now if we lengthen this line so it is now infinitely long point A and B are still at their respective locations of being the start and end points of said infinitely long line, so the argument of the universes not being infinite cause they have a start and an edge should not be relevant towards the argument of universes being infinite in physical size
tldr: just cause something is infinite in size doesnt mean it cant have a start or end
Click to expand...
 
"let us say we have a line, that line has a start and an end, the start (point A) and the end (point B) now if we lengthen this line so it is now infinitely long point A and B are still at their respective locations of being the start and end points of said infinitely long line, so the argument of the universes not being infinite cause they have a start and an edge should not be relevant towards the argument of universes being infinite in physical size"

...I mean if we're counting all real numbers, then the space between 0 and 1 is infinite, because 0.1, 0.01. 0.001, etc. If I have two points on the X-axis at -10 and 10, as long as I have clearly defined endpoints, which according to your example I do, then I can also say the space between -10 and 10 is infinite. That's the difference between a line segment, which is what you're describing, vs an actual line, which has no endpoints.
 
you do realize that the space between -10 and 10 going off of R would be lower-dimensional right? So it wouldn't matter for the sake of argument, and even then that was mostly just nitpicking since you can easily replace line with line segment and the point would be the same
 
deonment said:
that is not a good argument against infinite size, you can define a start and endpoint for a line infinite in size so what is stopping you from defining a center point as well
Click to expand...
If you have a line that is infinite in size, then it wouldn't end.
 
BetterThanYou said:
If the 1st scan is true, then it is 3-A.
The second scan is pretty vague, but it can be anything from 3-C to 3-B to 3-A.
The third scan applies to the old universe model where the universe was divided into 4 galaxies. So it doesn't apply to dbs manga in which the universe has countless galaxies. And galaxies "existing infinitely" just means that they are unfathomably large but not infinite.
Click to expand...
There can still be 4 Galaxies in the Dragon Ball Super Universe. It's stated there's 4 main quadrants (North, East, South, West Galaxies). However, in the Daizenshuu it's ALSO stated that neublae's inside the 4 main quadrants contain innumerable Stars and that innumerable nebula's exist inside each quadrant/Galaxy. These nebulae's could very well be a 'mini' Galaxies inside of larger Galaxies thus why Jaco stated countless Galaxies exist within the Universe:

main-qimg-674b824359561fafe41c086a0bdec418

"Within the universe, there are "nebulae" composed of innumerable stars, and there are "galaxies" composed of innumerable nebulae".
However, I've seen different descriptions for what a nebulae are in Daizenshuu scans.

This could very well be possible given that in the Dragon Ball Super Manga we not only see Whis' presentation of Universe 7 which shows a few large Galaxies inside of it (In addition to much smaller nebulae looking stuff):

https://cdn.************/file/mangap/1069/10005000/18.jpg
What we see in Universe 7 could very well be the few main Galaxies with smaller stellar stuff in the background.

But I feel the next conclusion is more likely

I've heard the whole there's 4 Galaxies thing is actually a misconception and it was actually never stated within canon that 4 Galaxies exist. Rather four cardinal directions.

7f6383e4d61bcb1785482ecd41a4480c.jpg


(Ignore the DBZ Universe is infinite caption. The Daizenshuu statement is the important part)
There were statements in Dragon Ball that there is 4 Galaxies, however, that's apparently just a mistranslation
main-qimg-207b1cea993ec29a699511925b51d7fc

main-qimg-76360b920dde03b083ed577a794f4b0b

This is from Comicvine, however, they do supports their claims with evidence. They even clear up this Daizenshuu statement
main-qimg-c7de7cc5fb31053933444528fa661636
main-qimg-4a7a1454ff2810df0296a2cfdf9a1a7d

So it's entirely possible there was never 4 Galaxies to begin with.

I believe I've seen a few scans supporting an Infinite Universe, but again, I don't really believe it. But if I do find them I'll post them here later on.
 
The 4 galaxy/quadrant/area thing is not mentioned in dbs anime and manga at all. So it is safe to say that it is not a thing in super. In canon db universe, there are countless galaxies now.
 
The name of those large spaces are Galaxies.

People need to learn the difference between something being named something vs something being something.

Those are named galaxies, but in fact, they are much larger than Galaxies.

You can name a space "The blue universe" and it can be the size of a solar system. You can give a child the name "King" and them not being a king of anything.

This is semi-Equivocation.
 
I was literally going to make a thread to upgrade Moro back to 3-A, sadge

Anyway, 3-A is perfectly fine since the Earth (which is where the epicenter of the explosion would be) is at the edge of the universe, and to reach galaxies all the way at the other edge, it would definitely take much more power than what 3-B could allow for.

High 3-A is very iffy, but I will refrain from commenting on it. Even after watching that PBS Space-Time video covering this exact topic, I still don't fully understand the concept of an infinite universe having a center or an edge.
 
While we are at this change of ratings, can I also propose a change of tier speed too? I have a speed feat that would make them actually pretty fast
 
Wouldn't this only be 3-A through Self Destruction? It wouldn't scale to his normal statistics or anyone else right? Except maybe Chou Whis.
 
Mageman460 said:
Wouldn't this only be 3-A through Self Destruction? It wouldn't scale to his normal statistics or anyone else right? Except maybe Chou Whis.
Click to expand...
His self destruction is basically using his full all power in one single final explosion, kinda like cell. So everyone who scales above him (mui goku, whis etc...) would get the rating I suppose
 
If it's a sort of like DBZ Vegeta's Final Explosion, then most likely nobody would scale to it and he would just get a "3-A with self destruction" rating.
 
Purgy said:
If it's a sort of like DBZ Vegeta's Final Explosion, then most likely nobody would scale to it and he would just get a "3-A with self destruction" rating.
Click to expand...
Uhmm ssj3 goku kinda scales above it, kid buu and ultimate gohan, buuhan do
 
After reading it, the logic holds up if the translation and its intention holds true, us making it 3-A on behalf of author intent is about as good as it gets, and to be fair, Dragon Ball has often used "galaxy" interchangeably with other spatial terms for sake of comprehension for the layman. However, given the point in the story we're at and where exactly this power scaling "should" be, yeah 3-A would be a logical conclusion but its gonna have to scale to the entire cast that interacts with him, more or less (Goku for instance).
 
Technically, Beerus was already surpassed by Goku when he accessed the completed Ultra Instinct transformation, and Goku does train with Merus at one point on top of being stated to have come out of the Broly ordeal stronger than ever before at the arc's beginning, so realistically, Beerus should be far below the Moro that was going to blow up and take basically the entire Living World with him.

There is some contention over whether or not the "UI Goku > Beerus" thing that was established as early as the Tournament of Power still holds or if it's been retconned, and the manga is rather vague regarding this, but for now, I wouldn't scale Beerus to Moro. As for who does scale, the only profile that I believe is relevant is, of course, Goku in his Ultra Instinct state after training with Merus.

For now, I don't think that Vegeta should scale. The Ultra Instinct transformation was treated as the only thing that is powerful enough to defeat Moro, and while Vegeta has recently learned the Power of Destruction to compete with Goku's Ultra Instinct, he hasn't accessed a new form or otherwise displayed any kind of power that is a match for Ultra Instinct. We should wait for him to fight first.
 
Granolah might scale, but I'd like to see him fight more first. Honestly, I'd also imagine UI Moro scaling to some extent due to being able to fight UI Goku, albeit he's still not as strong and has his limited time frame. I doubt anyone else does, though.
 
DragonLord said:
That’s all very exciting but I would like to know by now if the translations were accurate
Click to expand...
Considering they come straight from Herms and he hasn't corrected himself or been corrected by someone else as far as I know, I would trust them. That said, reading over his tweets, it seems that Toyotaro goes back and forth between "every galaxy" and just "this galaxy" in the chapter. It's very strange wording for sure and it makes it hard to discern the author's intent, but with Tien stating that even the Super Dragon Balls in space will get destroyed, I'm still very slightly leaning towards the 3-A interpretation.
 
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