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Accelerator vs Esdeath

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Malox1696 said:
Yes accel can't be affected by ice that freeze time, same reason he can deflect bullet that stop time

Yes TIME STOP is on the profile
Click to expand...
A bullet has a vector, stopping time doesn't.

Yes, Time Stop.....Is there something wrong?
 
Malox1696 said:
Spread out or not it still uses a medium, if the medium gets negated there is no effect
Click to expand...
How is he negating the medium

Again

Her ice is not involved in the stopping of time it's not actually the medium

She isn't using ice on anything to stop time
 
Paul Frank said:
You seem to be misinterpreting how her time stop works

She isn't actually using ice to stop time

She isn't hitting time with her ice, she isn't hitting someone with ice to time stop them

She is stopping time using the same powersource as her ice powers that is the only connection
Click to expand...
That would imply that the teigu has space time manipulation, and that is false , she is using her ability to stop time, it's not direct
 
Accelerator still can't do anything without a vector, so if Esdeath just sort of stops everything instantaneously there's not much Accel can do. Post headshot would probably bullshit something but that's not this fight.
 
@malox

You are literally the only person who seems to think that for some reason she is using ice to freeze time, even if she was there are still no vectors involved so he cant deflect it either way

So can you please drop this topic it's clear no matter what we say you aren't going to change positions on it
 
Paul Frank said:
@malox

You are literally the only person who seems to think that for some reason she is using ice to freeze time, even if she was there are still no vectors involved so he cant deflect it either way

So can you please drop this topic it's clear no matter what we say you aren't going to change positions on it
Click to expand...
Being the only one does not change facts, ur whole counter argument is on the assumption she controls time with her teigu something false and without proff

As the teigu Ice manipulations is the medium, and it's something that can be reflected by the field, the time stop would not work on him cause the medium is cut, u have this wrong idea of time as one, time is relative, it's not like a recorder where u hit stops, it affects the whole universe
 
@malox

Okay let me summarize your arguments

Esdeath's teigu gives her the ability to control ice

Esdeath's teigu also gives her the ability to freeze space and time

This means Esdeath's time stop uses ice despite that never being shown, and being completely illogical

Going off the assumption Esdeath's time stop uses ice it somehow gets nulled despite lacking vectors anyway

Did I miss anything?
 
TheMightyDanks said:
Accelerator still can't do anything without a vector, so if Esdeath just sort of stops everything instantaneously there's not much Accel can do. Post headshot would probably bullshit something but that's not this fight.
Click to expand...
Both pre and post head shot can't do anything vs true time stop, in this case the vector affected is the medium, the ice manipulation
 
If it's instantaneous, thoughtbased, doesn't have momentum, and effects the the area without any vectors, there isn't anything preheadshot accel can do. Post-Headshot bullshits conceptual magic stuff like curses away through the Clonoth even though they don't have vectors as we understand them, but preheadshot Accel cannot interact with anything that isn't a scientific phenomena.
 
Paul Frank said:
@malox

Okay let me summarize your arguments

Esdeath's teigu gives her the ability to control ice

Esdeath's teigu also gives her the ability to freeze space and time

This means Esdeath's time stop uses ice despite that never being shown, and being completely illogical

Going off the assumption Esdeath's time stop uses ice it somehow gets nulled despite lacking vectors anyway

Did I miss anything?
Click to expand...
My argument: Her teigu power give ice manipulation

Her teigu does not have time and space manipulation

She freezes time and space with her teigu

This means that she uses an application of her ability to manipulate ice to freeze time and space like she says

Ice manipulation will be reflected by the field

This means that as the medium is cut so the time stop will not affect the area accel is affecting with his reality warping powers (the reflection field)

Clear now ?
 
if her ability doesn't have a scientific vector then there's nothing preheadshot Accel can do. He's hard countered by stuff like this before he got brain damage.
 
Ok so let me counter this

>her teigu gives her ice manip

Absolutely correct

>she freezes time and space with her teigu

Yes her ability to freeze time and space does indeed come from her teigu, which is also the source of her ice powers

>her teigu doesn't have space and time manipulation

That's not needed to stop time in the first place, her teigu has time stop

>that means that she uses her an application of her ability to manipulate ice to freeze time and space

No it does not, she is not literally using ice to freeze time it's a metaphorical thing since ice freezes she gets to freeze time. It's pretty clear from her uses of it that she isn't using ice on anything to stop time

>ice manipulation will be reflected by the field

Its not ice manip, even if it was explain how the vectorless time stop gets reflected
 
Again the vector affected is the ice manipulation, same reason u can't spawn a fire ball inside his reflection field

Btw all the post head shot thing u said is just speculations, as of now he has no counter to true time stop

Btw again what u said about pre headshot accel is wrong, it can interact with the part that follow normal rules, that why he still deflected DM it's a white list not a black list
 
I just looked at a video of Esdeath using her time stop in the anime and it's portrayed as being a field that she projects out from her own body which isn't instantaneous. If this is true could it be said that this particular usage of time stop has a vector since it actually moves outwards? Assuming that preheadshot accel would be able to reflect Teigu energy or the like to begin with.
 
Would Esdeath against Platinum Winged Accel be a better match up?

Themightydanks

His reflection doesn't exactly work like that, it's why he can reflect things like dark matter, something that doesn't exist and why he was able to reflect certain magic before even learning about it. His ability is based on what he understands, basically if he can understand it, he can reflect or maniplate it, no matter if it's scientifcal or not.
 
Accelerator still had to calculate the kinds of vectors that Kakine was including in his attacks, Kakines first attacks were able to penetrate the reflection since they included vectors that Accel didn't know at first. Also, it was post headshot that fought Kakine.
 
@malox

Ice manip isnt a vector and there are no vectors involved in her time stop

@mighty

Im pretty sure thats just artistic effect in the same way Dio's time stop looks like a bubble expanding from around himself when used
 
Yeah, I was just limiting preheadshot accel to natural phenomena since that's all he'd encountered, it wasn't until after the brain damage that he started to include new vectors.
 
Mightydanks

Actually that's not exactly true, it was only when Kakine tricked Accel's shield by changing the properties of light that he was able to get through. He basically used Accel's own filter system agaist him, until Accel added dark matter fully into his calculations.
 
Paul Frank said:
>she freezes time and space with her teigu

Yes her ability to freeze time and space does indeed come from her teigu, which is also the source of her ice powers

>her teigu doesn't have space and time manipulation

That's not needed to stop time in the first place, her teigu has time stop

>that means that she uses her an application of her ability to manipulate ice to freeze time and space

No it does not, she is not literally using ice to freeze time it's a metaphorical thing since ice freezes she gets to freeze time. It's pretty clear from her uses of it that she isn't using ice on anything to stop time

>ice manipulation will be reflected by the field

Its not ice manip, even if it was explain how the vectorless time stop gets reflected
Click to expand...
Again , that's false she developed that, the teigu did not have any ability to stop time she is the one who found application for her powers

Well instead of reflecting the time stop he just negates the ice manipulation that carries the effect (example let's assume he could not reflect light,if a fire manipulator wanted to create a flame to blind him with light inside his reflection field, he would be unable to do it as the fire manipulation would just be negated even tho the light could pass it)
 
@malox

Evidence with the assumption that its Ice Manipulation your argument still doesn't make sense

Ice Manipulation isnt a vector

Accel doesn't powernull

He manipulates vectors

What vector is involved in the time stop
 
I mean accel does start screwing with things that don't have traditional vectors later on. Also platinum wing accel wouldn't play games and would probably just obliterate her instantly.
 
Paul Frank said:
@malox

Evidence with the assumption that its Ice Manipulation your argument still doesn't make sense

Ice Manipulation isnt a vector

Accel doesn't powernull

He manipulates vectors

What vector is involved in the time stop
Click to expand...
Mine is not an assumption as it's all things said in the manga and 1+1 logic

Ice manipulation IS a vector, like water , fire etc, why do u think he was untouchable by all the wannabes n1 in the city ? (They are all sub part of energy manipulation, in this case thermal)

By negate I mean it does nothing, nor it get reflected or pass trough not power null , as it's simply try to affect an area already affected by another reality warping ability
 
Ice Manipulation isn't a vector it's a power

He was untouched by the others because their applications of the powers had vectors

Even with your assumption that she is using ice to time stop there are no vectors involved so no, it's not being negated that's not how accelerator's vector manipulation works
 
That doesn't mafter, it's still Ice. She uses her powers to control and manipulate ice. Accel can reflect Ice.

Her time stop is a different story. I'm still confused how it really works though.
 
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