Adding a new key for The Source

[Elizio33]

Since the release of New Gods #12 (2025), it has been revealed that the Source had a purest form that preceded the Great Darkness. It was described as a white emptiness, a blank page brimming with possibilities and potential.

AND WITH THAT, HE SHOWS THE NYCATRI THE TRUE OPPOSITE OF ANNIHILATION. THE SOURCE IN PERHAPS ITS PUREST FORM.

THE NYCTARI ARE ENGULFED IN AN EMPTINESS, NOT BLACK BUT WHITE. A SEARING BLANK PAGE, BRIMMING WITH THE POSSIBILITIES OF AN UNWRITTEN FUTURE.

IN HIS FINAL MOMENT, EVERY MOTE OF HIS BEING REMEMBERS A TIME BEFORE THE DARKNESS. A MEMORY THRUMMING WITH THE INNOCENCE OF PRE-CREATION. THEY KNOW THIS LIGHT IS NOT A FALL TO DESPAIR BUT A RETURN TO INNOCENCE.

This description matches that of the Overvoid, and Grant Morrison had already identified the two entities as one and the same. Thanks to this new information, everything becomes clear. Furthermore, in the same comic, the Source is described as the Light, an untainted force of life and a counterforce to the Great Darkness. This implies that the Source possesses another form, purer and more primordial than both Light and Darkness. I propose two keys for The Source:

Light of Creation | Purest Form

 

[Phronemos]

I agree. I've always thought the Source existed beyond antitheses, and now everything is clearer.

But now, we need to place the Source at Tier 0, as the supreme being of cosmology. I also support the idea that it's the same entity as the Presence in the Metal Wars and earlier stories. I also believe the Overvoid should exist in the same way as the Source (beyond contradictions). The Source should be considered the "purest form" of God. I'm open to objections on this, but these are my thoughts.

 

[Elizio33]

I agree. I've always thought the Source existed beyond antitheses, and now everything is clearer.

But now, we need to place the Source at Tier 0, as the supreme being of cosmology. I also support the idea that it's the same entity as the Presence in the Metal Wars and earlier stories. I also believe the Overvoid should exist in the same way as the Source (beyond contradictions). The Source should be considered the "purest form" of God. I'm open to objections on this, but these are my thoughts.

Yes. The only problem was that the Source was the Light, but now that everything is clear, the Source can be the supreme being once again. There's also a scan from Swamp Thing or New Gods (I can't remember which) where Metron describes the Source and says it's beyond the war between Light and Darkness.

 

[AerrowStorm1]

Solid Agree, it finally resolves the Source=Presence=Overvoid thing.

 

[Elizio33]

Solid Agree, it finally resolves the Source=Presence=Overvoid thing.

Absolutely.

 

[ProfectusInfinity]

Excellent find! I agree with the addition!

 

[Re5yh]

I Agree

 

[Hayato5652]

I agree with everything

 

[Elizio33]

@Antvasima what do you think?

 

[Antvasima]

I think that this seems uncontroversial to apply.

 

[Secimatar]

I agree. Will the profiles for source and presence be merged?

 

[Zarovut]

What tiers would the Source/Presence/Overvoid be? Will it be changed?

 

[Antvasima]

@Qawsedf234 @Firestorm808 @Catzlaflame @Emirp sumitpo @LordTracer @ProfectusInfinity @Maverick_Zero_X @Elizhaa @DarkDragonMedeus @FinePoint @SamanPatou @Starter_Pack

Are any of you willing to help out here please?

 

[Qawsedf234]

Are any of you willing to help out here please?

What exactly are you asking? If it's about the keys, I guess it's fine. If its for page mergers, we'd have to decide what cosmology it's being applied to and merge it there, but I'm not sure how we'd go about that.

 

[Antvasima]

Thank you for helping out. I was personally referring to the keys, or do you need help with something else as well here, @Elizio33 ?

 

[Elizio33]

What exactly are you asking? If it's about the keys, I guess it's fine. If its for page mergers, we'd have to decide what cosmology it's being applied to and merge it there, but I'm not sure how we'd go about that.

It's for the keys

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Looks alright to me.

 

[Elizio33]

I agree. Will the profiles for source and presence be merged?

No, it's better to keep the profiles separate, but personally, I think we should make a profile for God, or Unknowable or Ain Soph (DC Comics). However, this is a case for another CRT.

 

[Firestorm808]

OP seems fine.

 

[Elizio33]

My proposal. Feel free to suggest ideas for improvement.

The Source

Tier: High 1-A | High 1-A

Keys: Condensed Form (Ain Soph Aur) | True Form (Ain Soph)

Attack Potency: High Outerverse level (Sits beyond the Multiverse and the Source Wall, in an extradimensional place beyond space and time, existing nowhere and everywhere at once, being at, and as, the center of the Greater Omniverse, encompassing and transcending all. Acts as the apex of the layered hierarchy of emanating existence, conceptually tied to the Deep Change, a mathematical principle underlying all things, and all of existence is a reverie dreamed by the Source. A fragment of the Source, known as the Philosopher’s Stone, can affect all of time and space) | High Outerverse level (Exists as the eternal, immutable, and non-dual white emptiness, identical to the Overvoid and the Divine Presence, the three representing the same absolute ground of reality and the blank page upon which all creations and stories were written. Is completely beyond all opposites and contradictions, existing in an state of immaculate perfection)

 

[Hayato5652]

Should changes be applie to the source page?

 

[Antvasima]

My proposal. Feel free to suggest ideas for improvement.

The Source

Tier: High 1-A | High 1-A

Keys: Condensed Form (Ain Soph Aur) | True Form (Ain Soph)

Attack Potency: High Outerverse level (Sits beyond the Multiverse and the Source Wall, in an extradimensional place beyond space and time, existing nowhere and everywhere at once, being at, and as, the center of the Greater Omniverse, encompassing and transcending all. Acts as the apex of the layered hierarchy of emanating existence, conceptually tied to the Deep Change, a mathematical principle underlying all things, and all of existence is a reverie dreamed by the Source. A fragment of the Source, known as the Philosopher’s Stone, can affect all of time and space) | High Outerverse level (Exists as the eternal, immutable, and non-dual white emptiness, identical to the Overvoid and the Divine Presence, the three representing the same absolute ground of reality and the blank page upon which all creations and stories were written. Is completely beyond all opposites and contradictions, existing in an state of immaculate perfection)

This seems fine to me.

 

[Elizio33]

Should changes be applie to the source page?

I think so, yes.

 

[Firestorm808]

I think so, yes.

To clarify, the only Tier 0 in DC is the Divine Presence, correct?

The Overvoid, True Source, etc are all just aspects of it.

 

[Elizio33]

To clarify, the only Tier 0 in DC is the Divine Presence, correct?

The Overvoid, True Source, etc are all just aspects of it.

They are identical. All three would therefore have a Tier 0 key. A potential profile for a composite God of DC Comics should be made eventuality, combining the Overvoid, the Source (purest form), and the Divine Presence. I don't know exactly what to call it yet. Maybe "The Unknowable" or "Ain Soph (DC Comics)"

 

[Hayato5652]

They are identical. All three would therefore have a Tier 0 key. A potential profile for a composite god of DC Comics should be made eventuality, combining the Overvoid, the Source (purest form), and the Divine Presence. I don't know exactly what to call it yet. Maybe "The Unknowable" or "Ain Soph (DC Comics)"

If this profile is created, it would be great, and there’s no contradiction either

 

[Elizio33]

Even though it's not the topic, I maintain my opinion that the profiles of The Overvoid and The Void (Vertigo) should be merged.

 

[Elizio33]

If this profile is created, it would be great, and there’s no contradiction either

A profile for a composite God of DC Comics had already been created, but it was removed due to excessive redundancy. This one, as I said, would combine the Divine Presence, the Overvoid, and the Source (purest form), since these three entities are identical with different names. Since a profile for "Ain Soph (DC Comics)" already exists in another wiki, I think the name "The Unknowable" would be preferable for the profile to avoid plagiarism.

 

[Antvasima]

They are identical. All three would therefore have a Tier 0 key. A potential profile for a composite God of DC Comics should be made eventuality, combining the Overvoid, the Source (purest form), and the Divine Presence. I don't know exactly what to call it yet. Maybe "The Unknowable" or "Ain Soph (DC Comics)"

Ain Soph is not the highest Tier 0 state of God according to Kabbala's interpretation. The Atzmus is, if I remember correctly.

 

[Antvasima]

Even though it's not the topic, I maintain my opinion that the profiles of The Overvoid and The Void (Vertigo) should be merged.

That seems fine to me.

 

[Antvasima]

A profile for a composite God of DC Comics had already been created, but it was removed due to excessive redundancy. This one, as I said, would combine the Divine Presence, the Overvoid, and the Source (purest form), since these three entities are identical with different names. Since a profile for "Ain Soph (DC Comics)" already exists in another wiki, I think the name "The Unknowable" would be preferable for the profile to avoid plagiarism.

How about just "God (DC Comics)" to make it more easily identified, searched for, and found by our visitors?

 

[Firestorm808]

My proposal. Feel free to suggest ideas for improvement.

The Source

Tier: High 1-A | High 1-A

Keys: Condensed Form (Ain Soph Aur) | True Form (Ain Soph)

Attack Potency: High Outerverse level (Sits beyond the Multiverse and the Source Wall, in an extradimensional place beyond space and time, existing nowhere and everywhere at once, being at, and as, the center of the Greater Omniverse, encompassing and transcending all. Acts as the apex of the layered hierarchy of emanating existence, conceptually tied to the Deep Change, a mathematical principle underlying all things, and all of existence is a reverie dreamed by the Source. A fragment of the Source, known as the Philosopher’s Stone, can affect all of time and space) | High Outerverse level (Exists as the eternal, immutable, and non-dual white emptiness, identical to the Overvoid and the Divine Presence, the three representing the same absolute ground of reality and the blank page upon which all creations and stories were written. Is completely beyond all opposites and contradictions, existing in an state of immaculate perfection)

In any case, do we have the scans and sources for the new description?

 

[Re5yh]

Ain Soph is not the highest Tier 0 state of God according to Kabbala's interpretation. The Atzmus is, if I remember correctly.

The Great Darkness was also inspired by Ayin/Ain from this religion. I think that The Source and The Overvoid could be merged into "Ain Soph (DC Comics)"

 

[Phronemos]

In DC Cosmology, the Godhead occupies an indescribable and unnameable position. Since it generally draws on many narratives outside of Kabbalah when attempting to describe the Godhead, naming its profile 'The Unknowable' or 'The Godhead' would be much better than 'Ain Soph,' given that many writers emphasize and aim to highlight the unknowability of the supreme being.

 

[Elizio33]

In DC Cosmology, the Godhead occupies an indescribable and unnameable position. Since it generally draws on many narratives outside of Kabbalah when attempting to describe the Godhead, naming its profile 'The Unknownable' or 'The Godhead' would be much better than 'Ain Soph,' given that many writers emphasize and aim to highlight the unknowability of the supreme being.

I agree.

 

[Elizio33]

In any case, do we have the scans and sources for the new description?

We already have the scans and the sources in the profile of The Source.

 

[Re5yh]

So, will the Keys of the new profile be something like this?

Tier: High 1-A | High 1-A | 0

Keys: Light of Creation | Purest Form/Overvoid | God/Ein Sof/Unknowable

 

[Elizio33]

So, will the Keys of the new profile be something like this?

Tier: High 1-A | High 1-A | 0

Keys: Light of Creation | Purest Form/Overvoid | God/Ein Sof/Unknowable

More something like this:

Tier: High 1-A | 0

Key: Light of Creation | The Unknowable/God

The Source, in its purest form, is identical to the Overvoid and the Divine Presence mentioned in DeMatteis's accounts. These three entities represent one and the same supreme entity, the Void has been described as the truest/purest form of the Source and also the Presence.

 

[Elizio33]

I think we can apply the change @Antvasima ?

 

[Antvasima]

I think so, yes.