The first one is from Xenoverse, where Chronoa doesn't has her true form. She is comparable to Aeos, who is comparable to Goku Black is ss3, who pushed Gogeta in SSBE, the same Gogeta(even weaker one, as the fight with Goku Black happened Ultra God Mission) who beated the shit out of Hearts in Universe mission, who was at the time stronger than Zeno, which was stated several times. So she is stronger than Zeno
Notice how you didn't respond to any of the other claims.
Not to mention that even Demigra, who is pushed down by base Goku and way below Beerus on strength, can destroy all history. Or
Beerus himself can destroy
all of history. Guess Beerus > Zen'oh too.
Maybe because he is specially strong?
Baseless headcanon.
And? You previously listed Moro and Granolah, who aren't canon for DBS anime
Hmm... I wonder what is the difference between anime filler and the content created by the successor of Toriyama with the help of the former.
Jiren was stated to overpower them with his STRENGHT, even when they needed just to gain better ki control it still included gaining better stats. As Jiren wasn't even harmed from Goku's full power attacks in their fight
Argue with the series themselves, not with me.
Granolah was still much stronger than Goku at that time, so he was able to blitz them to attack pressure points.
So Granolah defeated Goku by attacking pressure points, a martial art.
No, you excluded almost all fights with power difference. Goku vs Roshi wasn't fair as Roshi never used his full power against Goku(he didn't even use his full strenght against Tien, which was directly stated).
Roshi was fighting against Goku specifically for him not to get confident and was trying to defeat him with martial arts, not raw power.
Tien can deflect Kame Hame Ha, rendering the most useful of Roshi's skillset useless, because of Kiai, a technique.
Goku and Tien were relative to each other in strenght, so it's logical to rely not just not power alone in their case.
Yeah, which is what I'm telling you: skill is an important factor in Dragon Ball.
Why didn't you talk about Goku vs Tao, where Goku had to gain more power to just compete with Tao, no skill and haxes would help him against Tao if his ass would be blitzed, which Goku also said kinda.
Tao was a skilled assasin. Goku didn't just go to gain more power, he went to train with Karin to also improve his skills.
You could menction Goku vs Blue, when Blue used his special abilitie. However against Tao, Blue's ability wasn't able to do a thing as he just resisted it with power alone. Which is kinda another point for me.
Anime filler
Jiren was stated to didn't use his strenght against Roshi and as it was Roshi's version of SoE, then it gave him more stats, which was shown against 3 alien girls, where Roshi, while using his SoE, blocked their attacks with no issue, blitzed and overpowered them, when those girls were stated to be even stronger than him without his SoE.
And guess what is that in Dragon Ball? A martial art.
Goku attacked her off guard with charged kamehameha, so the power difference(now in kamehameha case) was still applied. And in the end of Goku against Kale with Caulifla fight Goku just overpowered them with SSG, nice job.
"
Overpowered them with SSG".
Goku used his skill, his techniques to defeat an oponent who was comparable to him in stats in a 2v1. Not overpower them with raw power like you're implying.
And Jiren just saved himself with pure stats by jumping from one piece of katchin back to arena, bravo
You call raw stats to skillfully jump across rocks to reach the arena back? He didn't just jump from the rock to the arena with overwhelming physical strength.
But when Goku became much stronger he was able to counter Moro's abilities
He didn't counter Moro's abilities, he
evaded them. not because he was stronger, but because UI, a martial art, let him do so.
and so Moro needed to became as strong as Goku to compete with him.
A warrior who has never trained needed more strength to compete against a more skilled yet less powerful warrior because otherwise he was useless? Yeah, doesn't prove your point.
Goku himself told Moro if he has never trained on that very arc.
Bruh, the first scenes of Goku vs Broly were just plot making Goku stronger than he actually is.
So now what Goku using martial arts is plot, I see.
As Goku was directly punched by Broly several times in base and survived, the same Broly who beated the shit out of SSG Vegeta.
Not what I'm talking about.
To sum it up, you're telling me, quoting you, that in Dragon Ball:
There is no special skill and tactic, just sheer stats and overpowering by them
My point isn't that raw power is irrelevant, but that skill is more relevant than how irrelevant you make it look like.
Of course Goku from the Saiyan Saga cannot beat Frieza from the Frieza saga regardless how much skilled he is. Not because skill is meaningless, but because there is a gap in power no amount of skill can overcome.
But that
doesn't render skill useless and make all special skill and tactic meaningless, like you're implying.
We're being told throught the entire series that one shall not only develop their strength leaving aside their skills. Characters who try to do so are always defeated by those who have honed their skill: Frieza, who never trained and was just a prodigy, against SSJ Goku; Broly against base Goku (until the latter catched up, forcing Goku to match his stats); Moro, who again never trained, against MUI Goku; Goku got scolded by Roshi because he thought what you're thinking; Granolah got scolded for just wanting free power without training; and ultimately in the Super Heroes saga we're told how important honing your strength instead of just seeking for more power is.
The point isn't that characters thousands of times stronger and faster can overwhelm the cast. The point is that in Dragon Ball skill is an important factor. Fights of those on a similar level are decided by skill, not by raw, skilless strength.
So:
Saiyan saga:
Roshi:"Okay, Vegeta, I'm gonna use my skill and haxes on you! GET READY!!!"
Vegeta vaporizes Roshi
Namek saga:"
Goku:"Okay, Frieza, in gravity chamber I wasn't getting stronger, but gaining more haxes and skill! Get ready to die!!!"
Frieza snaps Goku's neck and he dies
Cell saga:
Goku:"I decided to not train our stats in ROSaT, but gain haxes and skill! Get ready, Cell!"
Cell blitzed Goku
Do I need to continue?
Not only does this joke make no sense, but also goes against what Dragon Ball tries to establish.
In Saiyan saga Goku went to other world to hone his abilities, learn new martial arts and techniques to help him win the battle. Him getting stronger wasn't the only objective, but a consequence of his training.
In Namek Saga, the same. Even if Zenkais did a lot of job, Goku could ultimately match Frieza because all the techniques he has learnt on his way up there. Tricks like the Kame Hame Ha, using Kaio-Ken to amp and match someone initially out of his rank, etc.
In Cell Saga Goku literally spent most of the time trying to hone to perfection Super Saiyan. Not to get stronger, but to make Super Saiyan more efficient and control it perfectfully. That's why he could reach Grade 4 while Vegeta and Trunks, who were more focused on gaining strength regardless if they'd lose speed instead (Grade 2 & 3) couldn't.
And I could go on and on showing you in all the sagas the importance of skill, training, martial arts and abilities until the last arc, where Vegeta and Goku have reached their limits and have to improve the way they use their energy and strength to keep up with Jiren. Who isn't stronger, but uses his strength more efficiently. So:
There is no special skill and tactic, just sheer stats and overpowering by them
Yes, there are special skills and tactics. Sheer stats are important when fighting against fodder, but saying that there is no special skill and tactic, again, is just pure ignorance at worst and lack of reading comprehension at best.
Dragon Ball is trying to give you a clear message: to hone your body to perfection. To not only look for strength, but for more skills. That those who only focus on strength end up losing.
And you're ignoring all that and claim that the only relevant part of Dragon Ball is who is stronger.
