• This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.

    For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here.
  • We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.

    Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.

    Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page.
  • Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.

All-Star Superman Power Levels

Status
Not open for further replies.
ComicBookMyths

ComicBookMyths

53
6
Whoever added that All-Star Superman > Regular Superman doesn't know wtf they're talking about, dude got cancer from flying too close to the Sun, that would just make regular Supes more powerful not give him cancer. Like come on guys, and the feats don't even compare, Post-Crisis Superman walks all over this guy.
 
Kinda have to agree. Since this isn't a future version of regular Superman but instead an alternate version it seems faulty to scale the former to the latter. Regular Superman could lift an object that greatly dwarfed our own Sun without such amp, hell even New 52 Supe's could bench 5.972 Sextillion Tons for 5 days deprived of sunlight without breaking much of a sweat; All Star Superman lifting 200 Quintillion tons was noted as being 3 times his record, putting this Superman's regular non amped power levels far below regular or New 52 Superman's.

I'd say a 4-C rating is somewhat justified seeing as Morrison noted he could "Juggle Stars" and, from what I can recollect since its been a while since I read it, didn't he also cure the Sun with his internal energy alone, or was that just the movie version?
 
The sun core was both versions. He does need to be downgraded though since he's not an amped version of Post-Crisis Superman.
 
I'm gonna have to reread it all quickly to get some feats, all I recall is his fight with those two Kryptonian scientists breaking the moon.
 
Did they break it or just crack It? Imo his rating should be his best shown feat then his WoG placement. Like "At least 5-C, likely 4-C"
 
SuperAPM said:
Kinda have to agree. Since this isn't a future version of regular Superman but instead an alternate version it seems faulty to scale the former to the latter. Regular Superman could lift an object that greatly dwarfed our own Sun without such amp, hell even New 52 Supe's could bench 5.972 Sextillion Tons for 5 days deprived of sunlight without breaking much of a sweat; All Star Superman lifting 200 Quintillion tons was noted as being 3 times his record, putting this Superman's regular non amped power levels far below regular or New 52 Superman's.
I'd say a 4-C rating is somewhat justified seeing as Morrison noted he could "Juggle Stars" and, from what I can recollect since its been a while since I read it, didn't he also cure the Sun with his internal energy alone, or was that just the movie version?
Click to expand...
Where did Morrison say that?
 
I'm just getting this from his page, his lifting strength section states "claimed by Grant Morrison to be capable "Juggling stars"" I have no idea where he stated that. Sounds somewhat hyperbolic either way.
 
Ok, so I just got finished reading the whole story. Here are the feats:

Obviously after getting his amp we see him lift 200 Quintillion tons, noted as being 3x his natural non amped record:

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-Nu7o5wKHf34/VjnB6EjxSzI/AAAAAAAAC2s/Wz2nW66ndxA/s1600-Ic42/014.jpg

With it being noted that this wasn't even the upper limit of his new found strength.

200 Quintillion tons is, what, a 3rd of the Earths weight? I'd say that's a good enough case for a Class Z rating and possible moon level striking force, tho that's up for debate.

With all this in mind, his non amped lifting strength should have been at about 66,666,667,000,000,000,000 Tons.


The other notable lifting strength is that 500,000 ton key to his fortress, which as shown by Bar El and Lilo even a non amped Superman could casually lift such weight:

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-ujOAZGZOu30/VjnHIr2AueI/AAAAAAAADQY/AroKfssrmLE/s1600-Ic42/008.jpg

One thing I want to note as well is that its made clear that Superman is the only person on Earth capable of lifting the key:

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-A3geza_cYsQ/VjnCbPhOuPI/AAAAAAAAC50/RwI_NgZlXPI/s1600-Ic42/005.jpg

Which would mean that any powerhouse type hero or villain's strength is at least just below this range

The only other heroes mentioned througout the comic was Batman, Wonder Woman, Flash and Green Lantern:

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/--ptR5nC6YBw/VjnGieboqwI/AAAAAAAADNM/mIcOB0UB47g/s1600-Ic42/013.jpg


One last thing I'd like to mention before moving on, its noted that All Star Krypton's gravity is only 8x greater than Earth's, where its mentioned as being 30x greater in the main continuity:

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-NHcOODFlgz0/VjnHv9S-aEI/AAAAAAAADTs/TzR-yOcGvXQ/s1600-Ic42/006.jpg

This doesn't necessarily mean anything other than a downgrade for non-ampd Kryptonians, just thought I'd bring it up.


Here he states he picked a flower from Alpha Centauri:

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-GLikxTXjDe0/VjnCbUUH4xI/AAAAAAAAC50/HxA3zRha71c/s1600-Ic42/007.jpg

Light takes roughly 4 years to reach Alpha Centauri and I doubt he took that long on such journey's. Its not clear as to whether this was done Pre or Post Amp but either way its a solid speed feat for him. I'll let you all decide the High and Low end for this one as no time frame was given.


How much do any of you think these miniature Suns weigh?:

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-wg62WBQ-7Rw/VjnCcGhJ_xI/AAAAAAAAC50/MNNR9XYTI_o/s1600-Ic42/009.jpg

since they're still undergoing fusion they'd weigh a decent amount no?


His arm wrestle with Samson and Atlas appears to shake the crescent shaped island they were on:

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-OYw12MfcdaQ/VjnDNpPNvBI/AAAAAAAAC9A/G49w07VTtgs/s1600-Ic42/018.jpg

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-gNYy2PEmV4Q/VjnDN3pfo5I/AAAAAAAAC9A/FWaZBM0Auhk/s1600-Ic42/019.jpg

Not that impressive but a neat feat either way, the movie version was way better tho:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A8pNRyIlJ_g

Some will suggest him breaking Atlas's arm give him planetary strength but that's unquantified, Atlas has no feats to put him on that level.


I don't know how to quantify this to be honest:

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-1HVrDq9KwbU/VjnD3ed0fkI/AAAAAAAADAM/rVSuFjW1vw4/s1600-Ic42/007.jpg

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-cuSfH9LxXiY/VjnD3mo1xAI/AAAAAAAADAM/b3XyVvEaa5k/s1600-Ic42/009.jpg


Seems a bit hyperbolic and unspecified, but he's stated to be capable of cracking the Earth in two:

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-f9Eujt8jZKo/VjnD5EhanzI/AAAAAAAADAM/JGG_Ft-jZvg/s1600-Ic42/014.jpg


Rams into a mountain with this much force:

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-LD2OiI-EPM8/VjnF6_M1VRI/AAAAAAAADJ0/DxSjzeuHZQc/s1600-Ic42/018.jpg


This is the one I was talking about, Bar El and Lilo chuck Clark into the moon with enough force to crack the surface in half:

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-Ib53eRp4hCQ/VjnHJQ6p6qI/AAAAAAAADQY/QxUd9UjpAm4/s1600-Ic42/011.jpg

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-q6lj2eacjlE/VjnHJk-KNCI/AAAAAAAADQY/gp5NJAEqh6k/s1600-Ic42/012.jpg

Its not shown whether or not the entire surface was cracked or just the front half, and the crack itself obviously wasn't that big considering it could be helled together by a couple of bridges:

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/--RS4LDQiv58/VjnHJvfPKBI/AAAAAAAADQY/DIOsqv0QuBU/s1600-Ic42/013.jpg

But a good continental feat either way.


The big one, Superman completely cures the Sun with his own internal energy:

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-DCoY6ReMlUE/VjnJHjnfLsI/AAAAAAAADas/kON90_QR_4A/s1600-Ic42/019.jpg

However, I don't think this can be quantified towards his striking power considering this is his total internal energy at work. I'll leave that for you to decide.

Of course he also flies from Earth the the Sun in a few moments, another good FTL feat at play.


Still can't find Morrison's quote on Superman "Juggling Stars," anyone want to post a link for that feel free.


Anyway Qaw I'll leave it to you to make a rating and pick up on anything I've missed.
 
200 Quintillion tons is, what, a 3rd of the Earths weight?

To high ball the figure and assume its using the metric system, then that's only 3.3489% of the Earth's mass (5.972 Sextillion / 200 Quintillion)

One last thing I'd like to mention before moving on, its noted that All Star Krypton's gravity is only 8x greater than Earth's, where its mentioned as being 30x greater in the main continuity:

Super minor, but Krypton's gravity varies. Post-Crisis Krypton has 33x Earth's gravity while New 52 only had 5x Earth's gravity.

Anyway Qaw I'll leave it to you to make a rating and pick up on anything I've missed.

If I can find the Grant quote I think his ratings should be split. Like "At least 6-A, possibly 4-C". With his lifting strength being "At least Class Z, possibly Steller"
 
Oh I found it. Now here's my issue with using it. Grant was being pretty hyperbolic to drive home a point. That even if Superman is capable of fantastic feats of strength or whatever, he's still a normal guy who deals with problems. I personally don't think it should be used.
 
200 quintillion tons is actually 3% of the Earth's mass and 2.5x the mass of the moon. He managed to extend his arm with that weight, I've done the calculations and under normal Earth gravity that woul equate to Large Country levels of potential energy. All of his feats are Post-Amp btw. 8 times gravity just means he can carry 8 times his own weight pretty easily. He flew to Alpha Centauri and back in the time it took Lois to shower, women take 10 minutes to shower. If you calculate the speed and therefore kinetic energy it's roughly moon busting I believe. Cracking the Earth in half takes 1/3 of the GBE, should scale to small planetary and his speed can be worked out from there as well. You could say the same for the moon. The miniature suns seem like scaled down versions of the our a main sequence star with relative density. That mountain one is obviously at least mountain busting.
 
He flew to Alpha Centauri and back in the time it took Lois to shower, women take 10 minutes to shower. If you calculate the speed and therefore kinetic energy it's roughly moon busting I believe.

You aren't allowed to get KE from FTL feats on this site. As they break that particular set of physics and therefore the formula.

Cracking the Earth in half takes 1/3 of the GBE

You have a link to such a calc?
 
My thing is that I don't know if it translates into AP really. Superman notes that he's only capable of changing the sun back because he's becoming an energy being more or less. I don't think that would scale to his pre-EoS AP.
 
please don't quote walls of text
 
Qawsedf234 said:
He flew to Alpha Centauri and back in the time it took Lois to shower, women take 10 minutes to shower. If you calculate the speed and therefore kinetic energy it's roughly moon busting I believe.
Click to expand...
You aren't allowed to get KE from FTL feats on this site. As they break that particular set of physics and therefore the formula.


Cracking the Earth in half takes 1/3 of the GBE

You have a link to such a calc?

Yeah I know it's not allowed on this site but imo it should be, assuming regular Newtonian mechanics above light speed makes sense to me. FTL itself breaks physics so by that logic any speed calcs above light speed should be disallowed, hence I disagree with it. And yes I do, it's on my Instagram page. But the concept essentially breaks the Earth into 2 spheres and goes from there.
 
Qawsedf234 said:
My thing is that I don't know if it translates into AP really. Superman notes that he's only capable of changing the sun back because he's becoming an energy being more or less. I don't think that would scale to his pre-EoS AP.
Click to expand...
Yeah this was my thought on the matter as well. So an At Least 6-A rating for All Star Superman then?
 
Anyway, what other Supermen need changes Qaw?

Injustice Superman is obvious as you're already on that (is it Low 6-B or High 6-A that's the agreed rating on that?)

DCEU Superman needs to be downgraded to High 7-A at most.

I know DCAU Superman is already rated at that level but I feel there's a solid feat that needs to be discussed, namely the time he shook all of Metropolis in a fit of rage: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v0pcChyV6o4&t=50s Don't know whether this is a slight upgrade or not but its a better demonstration of his power than the Astroid feat that's listed on his page.

And......think that's about it tbh.
 
DCEU and DCAU Superman are for other threads. Although off-topic DCEU needs to be downgraded since its been accepted for multiple months that the tectonic plate calc is pretty flawed.
 
I just thought it was worth bringing up since this is a Superman related discussion. But we can make a thread on their pages if you want to discuss further. For instance there are two ABSURD new feats for DCAU superman in the new "Justice League vs The Fatal Five" movie that released last month that I feel need a discussion on.
 
Maverick Zero X said:
What is 6-C DCEU based on again?
Click to expand...
Zeus creating Themiscyra i believe. Of course that would just be High 7-A right? Like Akuma destorying that island in Alpha 3? Doesn't even seem like a feat of power to begin with and just a form of matter manipulation.
 
Anyways better to stick on topic than to go in another direction. Can someone ask a mod/admin to comment here?
 
Qawsedf234 said:
The star thing is weird considering Superman needed to become a being of pure information before he could fix it or something. That or hejust undid whatever Solaris did to poison the sun.
speed calcs above light speed should be disallowed
Click to expand...
Calculating speed is just a factor of D/T, which allows for FTL stuff. On the other hand KE relies specifically on following real life KE laws. It shouldn't be used to get AP, even if it makes thematic sense in this case.

Yes and KE is just a factor of 0.5m(s/t)^2, if mass isn't changing and FTL velocity is allowed, I see no reason to disclude KE based on FTL velocity and rest mass.
 
I just don't agree with using it. But ultimately my opinion doesn't matter a whole lot in this area. The site itself disallows FTL KE calcs.
 
Qawsedf234 said:
I just don't agree with using it. But ultimately my opinion doesn't matter a whole lot in this area. The site itself disallows FTL KE calcs.
Click to expand...
Yeah cool, I don't agree with it being disallowed. Hopefully the rule gets changed some day. Physics breaks down beyond light speed and there's a cosmic speed limit, there is no limit to energy as at light speed any non-rest mass object would have infinite energy. I think it's just like saying D/T values that yield values above light speed shouldn't be allowed.
 
That KE formula is a modification of the relativistic kinetic energy formula, which is actually the true formula for kinetic energy under conventional physics. It's just that there is no reason to use an advanced formula when it only starts mattering at around 80% SoL.
 
Assaltwaffle said:
That KE formula is a modification of the relativistic kinetic energy formula, which is actually the true formula for kinetic energy under conventional physics. It's just that there is no reason to use an advanced formula when it only starts mattering at around 80% SoL.
Click to expand...
You can make the same argument for the speed formula, s/t is just a simplified version of it. I just find it slightly hypocritical to allow FTL speeds but then not being allowed to use those speeds to calculate KE when the mass is clearly fixed. Special relativity above light speed would say that ordinary objects gain imaginary mass due to the Lorentz factor now having to divide by a root of a negative but clearly in fiction characters retain their rest mass so Relativity doesn't apply beyond light speed in most stories. Unless you abandon FTL as a concept altogether, which would be fair enough from a physics point of view.
 
So to be on topic. The suggested changes so far

Tier: At least 6-A/High 6-A

Attack Potency: At least Continent level/Multi-Continent level (Stated that he could split the Earth in half. Should be comparable to Bar El and Lilo who created a large crack on the moo )

Speed: Massively FTL+ (Flew from Earth to Alpha Centauri in the time it took Lois to take a shower)

Lifting Strength: At least Class Z (Able to effortlessly lift 200 quintillion tons with just one arm and have this feat be considered as a mere warm-up)

Striking Strength: At least Continent Class/Multi-Continent Class

Durability: At least Continent level/Multi-Continent level
 
Attack Potency should be at least moon level, even if you don't wanna use MFTL+ speed for attack potency, cracking the Earth in half should be small planetary and his speed feats would just support that.
 
cracking the Earth in half should be small planetary

Do you have a calc of that? Otherwise you can really give it a rating outside of 6-A or High 6-A

his speed feats would just support that.

On this site FTL feats do not count for KE. No matter anyone's opinions on the subject. So they don't back anything more than his speed rating.
 
Ok, just a few questions on the matter:

1. If we're accepting the "splitting the earth in half" comment, do you think the comic meant that he could split it hard enough to cleanly seperate it into two halves against its gravitational binding energy, or just in the same way Bar-El and Lilo cracked the moon in half. Probably the latter right?

2. Shouldn't Superman be stronger than Bar-El and Lilo? I know they banged him up pretty bad in their fight but Supe's was still weakened at that point as he just came back from Bizarro world and its Red Sun. With that in mind he should be at least 3 times stronger than them right?

3. Ignoring his MFTL feat for a moment, how hard would someone capable of lifting 200 quintililion tons hit if they moved their arm at 99.9999999% SoL?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

Maverick_Zero_X
  • Locked
Superman Additions #1 (Post-Crisis)
Replies
25
Views
2K
PapiSavitar5025
PapiSavitar5025
AerrowStorm1
  • Locked
Captain Atom revision/Update
Replies
8
Views
960
Emirp sumitpo
Emirp sumitpo
Alien X vs Superman
Replies
1
Views
1K
Hellformer
Hellformer
RanaProGamer
Two Dying Heroes Go At It | Superman vs Might Guy
Replies
8
Views
682
RanaProGamer
RanaProGamer
Emirp sumitpo
  • Locked
DC Comics - Superman Universal Feats Discussion (Continuation)
2 3
Replies
113
Views
10K
Lord_Farquaad69420
Lord_Farquaad69420
Back
Top