Allowing Rance on the wiki.

[BasedNecoScaler69]

Dread informed me that Rance was level 4 based on this thread. However, I dont think this is an accurate rating. Although the game is an eroge, the plot does not center around this too much. For a feel of the plot of an average rance game, read this summary. https://alicesoft.fandom.com/wiki/Rance_03:Story

a large majority of the h-content is comedic and irrelevant to the plot, to the point there are entire lets plays of every game in the series that have stayed for months/years with no visible conflict.
And if you're worried about the troubles with fandom, that should be no consquence because there is a wiki that indexes the entire rance series, plus the other works of the publisher. It is entirely possible to index the characters for a powerscaling purpose, without needing to use any of the h-scenes. The plot of a rance game is more like a traditional jrpg with with suggestive language mixed here and there.

 

[Ayewale]

I mean if there's an entire fandom wiki I can hardly see why it wouldn't be allowed, unless fandom is just ignoring a 3,000 page wiki.

 

[CurrySenpai]

My main issue with allowing this verse is because of the many many many mentions of r*pe and other sexual topics. It may not center around the H or explicit parts but it most certainly is a very prominent part of the series and in fact a big allure of the series and similar verses have been taken down because of the same reasons. Do not allow Rance on the wiki

it's mid anyways.

 

[BasedNecoScaler69]

Yes, b

My main issue with allowing this verse is because of the many many many mentions of r*pe and other sexual topics. It may not center around the H or explicit parts but it most certainly is a very prominent part of the series and in fact a big allure of the series and similar verses have been taken down because of the same reasons. Do not allow Rance on the wiki

it's mid anyways.

but other series that have been accepted such as Berserk have these same portrayals, which are arguably way less tame than rance. I'n rance's case it is usually meant to be lighthearted. And the rance series has been critically acclaimed in japan (and no, not because of the ****.)

 

[CurrySenpai]

but other series that have been accepted such as Berserk have these same portrayals, which are arguably way less tame than rance. I'n rance's case it is usually meant to be lighthearted. And the rance series has been critically acclaimed in japan (and no, not because of the ****.)

I don't really have an issue with Berserk or other materials because Berserk does not have a ton of h-content/prominently feature it as a main draw of the series. Rance on the other hand is chalk full of it and is literally considered an eroge.

I just don't think H-Games or other stuff belong on the wiki currently, especially due to the current rules.

 

[BestMGQScalerEver]

My main issue with allowing this verse is because of the many many many mentions of r*pe and other sexual topics. It may not center around the H or explicit parts but it most certainly is a very prominent part of the series and in fact a big allure of the series and similar verses have been taken down because of the same reasons. Do not allow Rance on the wiki

it's mid anyways.

Redo of healer moment

 

[CurrySenpai]

Redo of healer moment

We outta get rid of it then frfr

 

[BestMGQScalerEver]

I don't really have an issue with Berserk or other materials because Berserk does not have a ton of h-content/prominently feature it as a main draw of the series. Rance on the other hand is chalk full of it and is literally considered an eroge.

I just don't think H-Games or other stuff belong on the wiki currently, especially due to the current rules.

Eroge are not always nukige. Nukige is a series with a focus on sexual content while an eroge is more focused on the story. Rance is not a nukige.

 

[BasedNecoScaler69]

I don't really have an issue with Berserk or other materials because Berserk does not have a ton of h-content/prominently feature it as a main draw of the series. Rance on the other hand is chalk full of it and is literally considered an eroge.

The h content to regular content in rance is quite low. Fate and tsukihime is/was also considered an eroge. And there's a difference between an eroge, and a nukige. iirc even games with softcore content can be considered eroge

 

[BestMGQScalerEver]

Also Rance X has longest script in video game history and takes like atleast 150-200 hours to complete and one thing notable about it was its strikingly low amount of H content for the size of the game.

I'll exit myself from this thread for now since it's a staff thread until I ask for permission for later posts.

 

[BasedNecoScaler69]

Ask a staff to move the thread.

this was meant to be a staff discussion thread, dread suggested i do it

 

[Mr. Bambu]

The second a game dips into the classification of being intended for erotic purposes then it's almost certainly a Classification 4 on our content rating scale. The intent of the content seems to be sexual gratification, from an extremely cursory Google search, we're not indexing it.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

The second a game dips into the classification of being intended for erotic purposes then it's almost certainly a Classification 4 on our content rating scale.

I don't think so, we have quite a bit of eroge on here, Fate being one of the biggest examples, what's not fine is nukige, which is entirely focused on sex.

I am neutral here, to me just seems like we are constantly trying to find the line between eroge and nukige.

Just based on what i know though, Rance is like the king of eroge, however you have stuff like this, where the plot is based around Rance taking virginity...

 

[Mr. Bambu]

I don't think we should have a line. If the intent is to be jerked off to, it crosses the line and should be booted.

 

[Deagonx]

Rance is unambiguously an hentai game series, no room for argument here. It's not like a story that sometimes has erotic elements, it is the focal point of the franchise. It should not be added.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

There is nuance, i completely agree when it comes to nukige, that's literally the point of it, for sexual gratification, but when it comes to eroge, that's a no for me, eroge are just stories which can have sex in it, sex isn't the primary focus.

To say no eroge should be on here, eliminates a lot of verses, like Fate.

Like this verse i made, it's an eroge, but has a very complex world building and characters, is there sex? Yes, but it's not the focus, there is a good story there, and sex is used mostly as a story telling device, like off memory, it actually is the reason one of the characters snaps, and goes down the villain path.

Edit: Like literally re-looking at the profiles just now after years, i remembered a situation where sex had consequences, it caused a situation which lead to one of the characters dying.

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

I don't think we should have a line. If the intent is to be jerked off to, it crosses the line and should be booted.

Bit of a generalization. Fate, I believe, started as an eroge, and Senran Kagura exists on the wiki.

This isn’t to argue in favor of or against Rance.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Bit of a generalization. Fate, I believe, started as an eroge, and Senran Kagura exists on the wiki.

This isn’t to argue in favor of or against Rance.

It is intended to be broad. I don't want us to compromise our acceptable rating scale. If it crosses over, kill it, simple as.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

I mean the page says:

"Level 3: Explicit - Verses with shown or heavily descriptive sexual conduct. Said sexual content is not the main focus of the material and is usually part of a greater overall plot. Such content would be akin to an R-rated movie; restricted to mature audiences, but for wholly artistic endeavors.

Examples: A Song of Ice and Fire, American Gods, Nasuverse, The Witcher, Devilman"

We have had this discussion so many times, and eroge has been accepted as been something the site accepts.

Are we seriously going to delete dozens of verses, because they use sex as a story telling device, all sex is bad, we should get rid of anything that's explicit?

Deep and mature themes aren't allowed here, but torture, and mutilation is cool...

Like the verse i mentioned before, you have 2 characters who were neglected/abused, 1 whose parent only saw them as an object to make money as a child star, and went to extreme methods to try and keep a their child as a child, drugs, physically abuse etc. Another who from memory never had any love, and came to love the abused boy/teenager, and wanted to be close to him, hence the sex, the boy however due to his abuse wasn't comfortable with woman, and as a result the sex made things awkward and drove the girl mentally into a dark place, and she ended up becoming one of the very monsters she was suppose to kill, and the boy having to kill her...

But sex is bad, we can't explore this.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

I'm not gunning for Fate. I'm gunning for things we'd classify as 4. I even said as much. It's you guys that keep bringing up Fate. If Fate is actually equal to things like The Witcher, then I don't really care.

 

[Antvasima]

Sannse, the Fandom staff member who is mainly responsible for maintaining their acceptable content standards directly helped us write our own acceptable content rating scale, so I agree with Bambu about that we should not mess with it.

 

[BasedNecoScaler69]

I don't think we should have a line. If the intent is to be jerked off to, it crosses the line and should be booted.

the intent of rance is not solely to be jerked off to, or else it'd be classified as a nukige. rance is acclaimed in Japan and the vn community for its unique storytelling, and more recently with rance x, the longest script in fiction. i doubt something with the sole purpose of being jerked off to would have this much effort put into the story and world building

 

[Deagonx]

the intent of rance is not solely to be jerked off to

Just to be clear, you added to word "solely" but Bambu didn't use that word

 

[BasedNecoScaler69]

Just to be clear, you added to word "solely" but Bambu didn't use that word

that was the context i derived. but as celestial said, we already have several eroge indexed on the wiki. the point still stands that sexual gratification is not the main point of the series. not once while playing 01 - 9 did i ever go "oh shit lemme whip it out rq " . It is very possible to create a complete index of the characters while abiding by fandom's standards. in fact, the alicesoft wiki already does this.

 

[Deagonx]

the point still stands that sexual gratification is the main point of the series.

Agreed, and hence, it should not be indexed.

 

[Ayewale]

Got permission to post

My main issue with allowing this verse is because of the many many many mentions of r*pe and other sexual topics. It may not center around the H or explicit parts but it most certainly is a very prominent part of the series and in fact a big allure of the series and similar verses have been taken down because of the same reasons. Do not allow Rance on the wiki

it's mid anyways.

On one hand, I don't realllly think sexual topics being mentioned a lot constitutes a series being unfit for the wiki (as another comment pointed out, rape comes up a lot in Berserk, at least by their own words). On the other hand:

The main reason why we don't allow hentai games on the wiki is because (a) Wikia doesn't allow outright pornographic material to be uploaded outright and (b) fandom will outright delete wikis with a large amount of sexual fetish content. At least, sometimes? Actual h-games have wikis so fandom's policy is wildly inconsistent. What it comes down to is that some wikis are deemed to be dedicated to fetishes and sexual content while others are not. The Monster Girl wiki was singled out as a fetish site but HuniePop is just a puzzle game with relationships, I guess.

With all that being said, I still support Rance being added to the wiki. The site's not going to get vaporized for being a fetish wiki anytime soon just because some spicy games are involved and as long as no actually horny content's uploaded, we should be okay.

Edit: Also worth adding that several members state that Rance is more than just an eroge, that it's comparable to fate, that it has entire sfw let's plays, etc etc. If these are all the case, then on top of it already being on wikia, why wouldn't it be allowed?

 

[BasedNecoScaler69]

Agreed, and hence, it should not be indexed.

i meant to say not

 

[Deagonx]

I'm fine with waiting for some more staff input, but I completely disagree with adding it and consider it pretty clearly category 4. It seems as though the vote is 0 - 3 against adding it at the moment.

 

[BasedNecoScaler69]

I'm fine with waiting for some more staff input, but I completely disagree with adding it and consider it pretty clearly category 4. It seems as though the vote is 0 - 3 against adding it at the moment.

Level 3: Explicit - Verses with shown or heavily descriptive sexual conduct. Said sexual content is not the main focus of the material and is usually part of a greater overall plot. Such content would be akin to an R-rated movie; restricted to mature audiences, but for wholly artistic endeavors.

Yes, h-scenes are not enough for category 4. And rance games do not have the end goal of rance having sex. his goal is usualy something bigger, such as stopping a war, or returning to the surface from a sky island, or uniting the world to attack against a monster army

 

[Deagonx]

I'm aware of your opinion on the matter.

 

[Promestein]

It honestly seems blatantly level 3 to me. All the things people are criticizing about it can also be said of many vns on the wiki already. I just get the impression that you're misinterpreting what level 3 actually is.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, Promestein almost always has a very reliable sense of judgement, and we technically likely feature lots of considerably more morally reprehensible verses in our wiki.

 

[Promestein]

Besides, if FANDOM has an issue, they can just be removed.

 

[BasedNecoScaler69]

Besides, if FANDOM has an issue, they can just be removed.

its unlikely, because as i've stated before there's been an entire alicesoft wiki that's been on fandom for years atp.

 

[Promestein]

So it's fine. Honestly, I just feel like some people are making arguments based off of moral grounds and hiding behind the rating system as a convenient excuse. Any objectionable content in Rance is already in other verses on the wiki.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, it is no secret that I have a long list of verses that I do find morally reprehensible (seen in my wiki user page, if anybody is interested), and if Rance features a main character who is abusive towards women and a sexual deviant, in combination, it definitely qualifies, but plenty of other verses in our wiki contain as bad or even worse content that nevertheless does not break Fandom's rules of acceptable content.

 

[BasedNecoScaler69]

Well, it is no secret that I have a long list of verses that I do find morally reprehensible (seen in my wiki user page, if anybody is interested), and if Rance features a main character who is abusive towards women and a sexual deviant, in combination, it definitely qualifies,

He's not exactly abusive per se, but he is a huge pervert

but plenty of other verses in our wiki contain as bad or even worse content that nevertheless does not break Fandom's rules of acceptable content.

Alright, how many more votes for Rance to get approved?

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Level 4: Extreme - Verses that have high sexual content as the main focus of the material. Such verses are pornographic in nature and strictly unsuitable for the wiki. The majority of the media content is sexual for verses that fall under this rating.

I'm not misinterpreting anything, we're just hearing the same arguments we heard for MGQ again (no but you can totally play it while avoiding the H-scenes). The purpose of the game does indeed seem to be built towards sexual gratification.

And to be clear...

Yes, h-scenes are not enough for category 4. And rance games do not have the end goal of rance having sex. his goal is usualy something bigger, such as stopping a war, or returning to the surface from a sky island, or uniting the world to attack against a monster army

We're not arguing the guy's motives. We're discussing the motives of the game itself, not its plotlines or contents but rather what players are meant to gain from it. The presence of plot is, historically, not enough to save an H-game from deletion. Furthermore we have specific rules on the matter at the bottom of our Acceptable Rating Scale- even if you can avoid the H-scenes, it is their presence alone that makes the game unacceptable.

 

[BasedNecoScaler69]

even if you can avoid the H-scenes, it is their presence alone that makes the game unacceptable.

Level 3: Explicit - Verses with shown or heavily descriptive sexual conduct

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Level 3: Explicit - Verses with shown or heavily descriptive sexual conduct

Level 4: Extreme - Verses that have high sexual content as the main focus of the material. Such verses are pornographic in nature and strictly unsuitable for the wiki. The majority of the media content is sexual for verses that fall under this rating.