Battle for 4th strongest non-smurf 5-C: Sigma Circular vs QiQi

[DontTalkDT]

Sigma Circular vs QiQi

Speed Equal
5-C versions
SBA otherwise

Machine vs Machine
Who takes it?

 

[Setsuna_tenma]

what stops qiqi from being affected by global freeze and being turned to data

 

[DontTalkDT]

Timetravel probably.
Although, doesn't that just eliminate living beings? QiQi is a robot.

Counter question, what stops Sigma from getting hacked/jammed?

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

Robot doesn't matter as Roidmude in general are mechanical being and still being affected by Sigma haxes iirc

 

[DontTalkDT]

I see, I just figured because it says "Sigma Circular completely freezes the entirety of Earth to find every living thing to convert them into data".
Anyway, dodging via time machine stays an option.
Can Sigma defend against QiQi's hacking/jamming in turn?

 

[IxaSaga2]

Sigma's Hax is kinda weird. Even though it says life forms, it was able to transmutate everything associated with the human. For example, it was able to transmutate umbrella and purse of the human. On Kamen Riders and Roidmudes which resists the ability, it turned into basically undodgable sparks of energy.

How does her time machines work? A thing to note while fighting Sigma is that the whole Earth passively freezes and she cannot do anything except for thought based powers.

If she can just thought based time travel to the past where Sigma Circular was inactive and just destroy it then she beats it pretty easily. If not thought based, she will be stuck in time while Sigma spams everything at her.

How does her Jamming work? If I recall, Sigma Circular was unaffected by anything the Roidmudes thew at it thanks to the barrier it has. It was also made and unaffected by Banno's power of Gold Drive who was able hack Drive, Mach and Chaser's weaponry.

 

[DontTalkDT]

QiQi's hacking is comparable to that of 02 who could easily hack the monitoring systems of an entire planet. So fairly above baseline. QiQi's jamming is based on EMPs and stuff. It should be pretty powerful since it's the cutting edge version of the weapons that won humanity the second war against sentient robots.

If the time stop is passive that won't matter, though. The time machine needs her to press a button, so she needs to rely on her strongest option: Her future self saving her butt.
Just due to the fact that QiQi knows how to build a time machine, the paradoxical situation arose that a QiQi from the future can travel to the past to help her past self defeat Sigma. That's despite the fact that the future QiQi really can only exist due to the fact that she saved herself like that.
QiQi can't time paradox, despite being a time traveler, but Sigma might just find an automatic space-cutting device from the future destroy him the instant the fight starts. (or something like that. QiQi isn't a genius for nothing)

 

[IxaSaga2]

QiQi's hacking is comparable to that of 02 who could easily hack the monitoring systems of an entire planet. So fairly above baseline. QiQi's jamming is based on EMPs and stuff. It should be pretty powerful since it's the cutting edge version of the weapons that won humanity the second war against sentient robots.

I believe EMPs won't be able to reach Sigma due to it freezing literally everything including energy in place.

If the time stop is passive that won't matter, though. The time machine needs her to press a button, so she needs to rely on her strongest option: Her future self saving her butt.

So what if her future self comes into the present and then the future self gets time stopped? Even then, you have Sigma Circular spamming lasers and projectiles at you while she is thinking of a plan in which it will knock her elsewhere and then the future self won't be able to reach it because she is knocked away. And then she has to do that again but Sigma just keeps spamming and juggling her. Here's an example of how it fights:

Just due to the fact that QiQi knows how to build a time machine, the paradoxical situation arose that a QiQi from the future can travel to the past to help her past self defeat Sigma. That's despite the fact that the future QiQi really can only exist due to the fact that she saved herself like that.
QiQi can't time paradox, despite being a time traveler, but Sigma might just find an automatic space-cutting device from the future destroy him the instant the fight starts. (or something like that. QiQi isn't a genius for nothing)

Don't think she's gonna have enough time to do that. It's not gonna wait for her to find exactly what she needs and then attack. Sigma is a big spammer and is gonna spam abilities it detects her.

And even if she gets it in the beginning of the fight, how would she be able to know what to get when Sigma hasn't shown anything yet besides time stop?

 

[DontTalkDT]

There's one thing you're understanding wrong: The future QiQi that saves QiQi's butt is a future version of the QiQi that experiences that very event. That is to say, the future version has memories of the fight against Sigma and even of how exactly she defeated Sigma.
So she doesn't have to find stuff and build a device out of it. Future QiQi will already have the device that defeats Sigma prepared when she arrives because future QiQi remembers how that very device defeated Sigma.

In fact, future QiQi could have traveled into the past before the fight to gather information on Sigma (e.g. steal its blueprints) and set things up for Sigma's defeat in advance. That's something she tends to do.

 

[IxaSaga2]

There's one thing you're understanding wrong: The future QiQi that saves QiQi's butt is a future version of the QiQi that experiences that very event. That is to say, the future version has memories of the fight against Sigma and even of how exactly she defeated Sigma.
So she doesn't have to find stuff and build a device out of it. Future QiQi will already have the device that defeats Sigma prepared when she arrives because future QiQi remembers how that very device defeated Sigma.

In fact, future QiQi could have traveled into the past before the fight to gather information on Sigma (e.g. steal its blueprints) and set things up for Sigma's defeat in advance. That's something she tends to do.

I see. Well this opens a can of worms that I don't really wanna get into. I have so many questions already just from reading this.

 

[IxaSaga2]

Wait, how do we know future QiQi is even there if she is unable to survive the present? Because currently, there is nothing she can do to bypass Super Heavy Acceleration and Global Freeze.

 

[DontTalkDT]

That's the thing. Even if QiQi wouldn't win without the future intervention, the future version can still appear as long as she can win if it appears.
It's what is called a causal loop or bootstrap paradox.

Temporal paradox - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Oliver_de_jesus]

One question, what happens if QiQi has no way to win any, since her enemy resists everything and is acasual besides having the power to destroy QiQi?

that means that there is no future where she wins and therefore future QiQi cannot help (that is if she exists too)

 

[DontTalkDT]

The opponent being acausal doesn't really affect this power, since the opponent's causality isn't affected.

However, if QiQi has no chance to win even if future QiQi(s) help(s) then future versions wouldn't appear. (I the female robot time travel doesn't allow grandfather paradoxes)
I.e. Future QiQi(s) can appear if and only if QiQi wins if they appear.

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

So i guess Sigma take the win?

 

[DontTalkDT]

....huh? Based on what?
Have yet to see any argument against future QiQi killing him.

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

The opponent being acausal doesn't really affect this power, since the opponent's causality isn't affected.

However, if QiQi has no chance to win even if future QiQi(s) help(s) then future versions wouldn't appear. (I the female robot time travel doesn't allow grandfather paradoxes)
I.e. Future QiQi(s) can appear if and only if QiQi wins if they appear.

Based on this

 

[DontTalkDT]

...yeah, but read what I wrote again.
It's not that Future QiQi can't appear if Present QiQi can't win.
Future QiQi can't appear if Future QiQi and Present QiQi together can't win.
As in, if Future QiQi wins this match, then Future QiQi can appear.

So Sigma still needs a way to not get instantly killed by Future QiQi via a space-cutting device placed besides him 5 minutes before the fight.

 

[IxaSaga2]

Can't Sigma just TP away? Future Qiqi still runs the risk of getting transmutated into data if she appears. And she also havs to deal with all of Sigma's abilities, not just it's hax.

 

[DontTalkDT]

Future QiQi would know if he teleports and where he teleports to. Not that I think he would get the chance to really react to the activated space-cutting machine in the first place.

 

[IxaSaga2]

Not everything is going to happen the same because future QiQi interacts with present QiQi. Wouldn't that make Sigma react in a completely different way. It would be able to react to QiQi getting into the present first before she can pull off her space cutting machine.

And since she is teleporting into Sigma's Global Freeze, she would need to deal with that first since if she can't bypass that, then she won't be able to use the space cutting device in the first place. I also looked into Drive's specs and Sigma was able to briefly defend against Drive Tridoron's Overdrive state that used the combination of all his powers into one. That said Overdrive used Dimension Cab's power which has space distorting abilities. It would mean that Sigma's barriers are able to defend against a Small Planet spacial attack.

Also, another thing I want to ask. Sorry if I misunderstood some stuff but in her standard tactics, it states in her profile that she needs to run away or survive the encounter via TP device or time traveling device and then travel to the future to learn about how she won to come back with better preparation. That way she teleports into a future where she won and study off it. How would she be able to escape into the future in the first place?

 

[DontTalkDT]

Not everything is going to happen the same because future QiQi interacts with present QiQi. Wouldn't that make Sigma react in a completely different way. It would be able to react to QiQi getting into the present first before she can pull off her space cutting machine.

No, everything is going to happen the same, because the future QiQi comes from the timeline created by future QiQi's intervention.

Let me badly draw how the timeline would look like if future QiQi appears (if it looked any different she wouldn't appear):

From Qiqi's perspective the events would go like this:

Qiqi is going about her day -> Fight with Sigma starts and she wins with help of her future self -> Qiqi knows her future self could only appear because she eventually goes back into the past herself, so she starts making preparation to fight Sigma -> Once prepared enough she uses the timetravel machine to go into the past and defeat Sigma (she becomes future Qiqi) -> Once Sigma is defeated she uses the time machine to go back to the future and continues living her life as normal from there.

Notice how there are no parallel timelines or anything. The future QiQi is always the one that the present Qiqi becomes later in her life. A version of this fight where future QiQi doesn't appear never happens and hence there is also no point in which Sigma acts differently. There is only one version of this fight and it's the one where future QiQi appears.

And since she is teleporting into Sigma's Global Freeze, she would need to deal with that first since if she can't bypass that, then she won't be able to use the space cutting device in the first place. I also looked into Drive's specs and Sigma was able to briefly defend against Drive Tridoron's Overdrive state that used the combination of all his powers into one. That said Overdrive used Dimension Cab's power which has space distorting abilities. It would mean that Sigma's barriers are able to defend against a Small Planet spacial attack.

Qiqi can place the device there before the freeze (like, before the fight starts 'cause time travel) or can make a device resistant to it (she has spacetime manipulation tech already, so that is possible). Heck, she could copy Sigma's tech. Not like she hasn't done shenanigans like that before.

And QiQi has a future Low 5-B key as well, so future her can use tech on that level. Heck, probably even stronger considering that the main power limit for her always was to find space for the batteries...

Also, another thing I want to ask. Sorry if I misunderstood some stuff but in her standard tactics, it states in her profile that she needs to run away or survive the encounter via TP device or time traveling device and then travel to the future to learn about how she won to come back with better preparation. That way she teleports into a future where she won and study off it. How would she be able to escape into the future in the first place?

What? Nah, you misunderstand something. Qiqi never travelled into the future (except to get back to the point in time she originally traveled through the past from).

The future QiQi thing has no need for her to escape into the future or past or anything. The future version of herself takes action all on its own, without her knowledge. (She was very surprised when it suddenly appeared to save her)

 

[IxaSaga2]

All this time stuff is making me dizzy no cap

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

Thats DontTalk shennaginans for you

 

[IxaSaga2]

Thats DontTalk shennaginans for you

Its not the first time