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Ben 10: Removing Vilgax Attacks and Cosmic Destruction from Mainline Canon [ACCEPTED]

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But you are ignoring all our votes and putting Reiner in the wrong section

Did I?

Yeah, never mind. I never played Vilgax Attacks, but from the scene, it seemed to me that he merely lost access to his aliens because the Omnitrix was depowered. however, a friend of mine just told me he actually did lose access to a few of his aliens and they had to be unlocked later when omnitrix was back to working. Proposal works in that case i suppose.

Because he agreed with me here, so I put him there

That's something

I didn't count your vote because you haven't given me a single genuine argument with evidence that refutes my arguments. You just keep being aggressive and rude, while posting stuff I've already refuted
 
Because he agreed with me here, so I put him there
Actually, a while ago, I decided to refrain from casting a vote on this proposal. I would only like to help with clarifications and scans in case I see the need.
 
Actually, a while ago, I decided to refrain from casting a vote on this proposal. I would only like to help with clarifications and scans in case I see the need.

I'll remove your vote then
 
The Cosmic Destruction one is nice support for it being canon, but the Vilgax Attacks one doesn’t really mean anything. “Battle Vilgax and other villains from the show” just means that those characters are in the game. It doesn’t say anything about canonicity.
Well we can use Paradox's mentioning of Albedo's Alien-X timeline to make it canon
 
@Lonkitt is op up to date or does anyone opposing the changes have one concrete post with all their disagreements made? Or has there been no real meaningful changes in arguments or evidence since my inital agreement
 
Well we can use Paradox's mentioning of Albedo's Alien-X timeline to make it canon

I've gone over this so many times in the thread...

That's from the DS version. Not the main version mentioned on the cosmology page. They're two different versions with different stories

Paradox referencing something that happens in a DS game doesn't make the main version of Vilgax Attacks canon, and it certainly doesn't make Cosmic Destruction canon

This point about Paradox mentioning Alien X Albedo is irrelevant
 
@Lonkitt is op up to date or does anyone opposing the changes have one concrete post with all their disagreements made? Or has there been no real meaningful changes in arguments or evidence since my inital agreement

Nothing's changed from the opposing side. It's been a lot of points I've already refuted being brought up again and again and again
 
O
Okay then I hold my stance
Can't you like actually read the thread? Of couse he'd say that lmao, he's arguing for himself. You better read and then get your own opinion

He hasn't proved how not being canon to the Prime Timeline affects their existence in the multiverse. And we've proved wrong, the games do take place within the same narrative as the show's, his inconsistencies are just wrong, because they line up with the averse, his pnpy real point falls apart because is a retvon of the latercshow.
 
So this is likely approved, i suppose. When will you starting to make VA and CD pages for characters @Lonkitt if so i can help with scans you need
 
So this is likely approved, i suppose. When will you starting to make VA and CD pages for characters @Lonkitt if so i can help with scans you need

If this gets approved (as in, the revisions can be applied to the pages), then that'll mark when I start drafting up the pages for both VA Ben and CD Ben (since it just makes sense to start with them)
 
There are some arguments I disagree with.

This was the only time in the AF series that he transformed into nine different aliens consecutively. In the "Rise of Darkstar" episode, after making three consecutive alien transformations, he stated that he was tired of switching between so many aliens.

Also, just because the Calibre Omnitrix is a later form of the Classic Omnitrix doesn't mean it's better in every way.

I think you forgot, Julie occasionally lends the Ship to Ben and her crew for missions.
  • Upon reaching Vulpin, Ben says "I've always wondered what my aliens' home planets were like!", as if to imply he's never visited any of his aliens' home planets. In the main canon, he's already visited them prior to AF chronologically. There's also the fact that he's visited Galvan Prime (Galvan Homeworld) and Galvan B (Galvanic Mechamorph Homeworld) during the Classic era as revealed in Omniverse flashbacks. Even if you want to view this as a retroactive change, Omniverse takes the same priority of canon as OS and UAF, so this ABSOLUTELY supports the idea that Vilgax Attacks is set in its own canon. Either way, this is a smoking gun
This dialogue doesn't prove that the aliens he's talking about have never been to those planets before. Even if he saw a few planets inhabited by aliens like Grey Mater, he didn't see them all. Just because I say "I'm curious about the cities of Turkey" doesn't mean I haven't visited any cities in Turkey. I could agree with Benjamin if he had seen all the aliens' planets.
That's a good point, but I think it would invalidate the part of the game that only features Zs'Skayr.
That's a good point, but I don't think that's the main reason. In one part of the story (I haven't watched this part xD, I'm writing what I heard), it's stated that Vilgax doesn't believe in the existence of the Celestial Sapiens. At the end of the VA game, Benjamin transforms into Alien X right before Vilgax's eyes... I can't say Vilgax is someone who doesn't even believe what he sees. Yes, perhaps the most important part of the game is invalid... I admit.

I agree with the other points regarding the game.
 
This was the only time in the AF series that he transformed into nine different aliens consecutively. In the "Rise of Darkstar" episode, after making three consecutive alien transformations, he stated that he was tired of switching between so many aliens.

Also, just because the Calibre Omnitrix is a later form of the Classic Omnitrix doesn't mean it's better in every way.

I don't think Ben being tired in "Rise of Darkstar" really explains the scene where he uses all the aliens against Mr. Smoothie in Vilgax Attacks. Especially since Ben isn't tired at all after using ten different aliens in rapid succession, and still loses aliens afterwards

Plus, it generally just doesn't make sense that this should even be a risk for him given what we see in "Back with a Vengeance". Even if you wanted to argue the Calibrated Omnitrix isn't more advanced than the Classic Omnitrix, it shouldn't be worse, right? That just wouldn't make sense

I think you forgot, Julie occasionally lends the Ship to Ben and her crew for missions.

That she does, but that isn't how it's posed in the game. In Vilgax Attacks, the attack from Vilgax SAY THAT AGAIN? is posed as a complete surprise. Only after that first level does Ben summon Ship seemingly out of nowhere. It doesn't seem implied that Ben, Gwen, and Kevin were already lending Ship for another mission or with the knowledge that Vilgax was about to attack

This dialogue doesn't prove that the aliens he's talking about have never been to those planets before. Even if he saw a few planets inhabited by aliens like Grey Mater, he didn't see them all. Just because I say "I'm curious about the cities of Turkey" doesn't mean I haven't visited any cities in Turkey. I could agree with Benjamin if he had seen all the aliens' planets.

I definitely get what you're, but the way Ben phrases it here and with how Yuri voice acts the line makes it sound like he's much more surprised and enthusiastic as if this is a first time thing, with Kevin additionally adding that he needs to get out more. It just seems much more narratively implied that in the VA continuity, Ben hasn't seen any of his aliens' homeworlds. If he phrased it differently (both in terms of wording and tone), then I probably wouldn't even bring up this point

That's a good point, but I think it would invalidate the part of the game that only features Zs'Skayr.

I think it's much bigger than that personally given how "Ghost Town" treats the return of Zs'Skayr. This is another thing I've noticed with both VA and CD. They have a habit of having villains make their own returns in those continuities that drastically differ from the main continuity enough to where it's pretty clear they aren't mainline. This also lines up with how Charlotte says she tried to make the games fit as much as possible, but ultimately she concedes that they aren't canon and the show's going to take priority

That's a good point, but I don't think that's the main reason. In one part of the story (I haven't watched this part xD, I'm writing what I heard), it's stated that Vilgax doesn't believe in the existence of the Celestial Sapiens. At the end of the VA game, Benjamin transforms into Alien X right before Vilgax's eyes... I can't say Vilgax is someone who doesn't even believe what he sees. Yes, perhaps the most important part of the game is invalid... I admit.

Another thing I'd like to bring up about Alien X in this game (that I should've in the original post, but this is a good time to bring it up) is that Ben tells Bellicus and Serena that if they don't do anything about the Null Projector that's going to be shot at them, the Omnitrix will be destroyed and thus, so will Alien X. Bellicus then asks "All in favour of being destroyed?", which in the real world is followed by "Motion...denied! We will not be destroyed!"

What I find significant about this is that the Omnitrix DOES get destroyed at the end of AF, but in UA when Ben accesses Alien X, Bellicus and Serena are there still. Furthermore, we know the two existed well before the Omnitrix ever enabled Ben to use Alien X

The reason I'm bringing this up is because Alien X is clearly a much less powerful being in VA to the point where Bellicus and Serena agree with Ben that the destruction of the Omnitrix would legitimately lead to their own destruction. That's kinda crazy with how much it differs from the invulnerability that Celestial Sapiens have in the mainline multiverse

Like, this is really weird compared to the mainline continuity's portrayal of Alien X, right? Oh yeah, also the game seems to imply that in the VA continuity, Ben has a better dynamic with Bellicus and Serena, and thus they can carry out motions faster, so that's kinda interesting

I agree with the other points regarding the game.

Gotcha. I'll add your vote
 
This thread has been up for 48 hours and has received ample mod approval, meaning this revision has been officially approved

I'll start removing the VA and CD content from the pages. We're gonna need to unlock the Ben 10 Cosmology page so I can edit that one too
@Dereck03 Can you unlock this cosmology page for the changes accepted in this CRT?
 
Handled, tell me when you are done.

Thanks a ton

Alright, the canonicity of VA and CD as well as the mentions of Anur Phaetos have been removed from the page. I've also edited the pages for Way Big, Albedo, and the Ben 10 verse itself to remove the VA and CD content (you'll see it again on VA and CD pages, so dw, it's not lost forever)

This means I can start drafting up the pages for VA and CD. If anyone's curious about those, feel free to reach out to me

MODS, TAKE AWAY HIS CANONICITY AND SEND HIM TO THE NULL VOID

mod-albedo.gif



Thanks to everyone who contributed. This can be closed now
 
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